The only winner in this election...

[hq2]

....is Vladimir Putin. His friend Donald swept the primaries clean of all his reputable Republican rivals (associated with the defense department) and has now turned the U.S. elections into chaos. Ol' KGB friend Angel Eyes is succeeding beyond his wildest dreams.



He may succeed in destroying NATO yet.

[tysdad115]

So Putin did it? Yeah ok. Nothing happened on the other side though right?
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[BigBo]

I think you've been watching too much Bill Mahar.

[buckman]

Lmao
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[Nebe]

time to loosen that tinfoil hat
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[ecduzitgood]

Trump isn't connected to Russia according to the FBI and the NY times.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/01...ald-trump.html
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[hq2]

No, they can't prove they're paying, him but they've clearly been trying to help him.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...king/92514592/

No, it wasn't "some 400 pound guy sitting on his bed" who did it; it was Putin. And he didn't do it to help Hillary.

[buckman]

Yea and Russia put the emails in Weiners computer too.
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[JohnR]

Couple thoughts:

The past decade has seen Russia playing havoc on elections all over the world. Both in favor of one group as well as to sow general discord among the citizens. They have done this all over Europe and are now doing it the USA.

So, yes, Putin is trying to influence our election and he is succeeding. And he is (for once) backing the Republican side. Rather than the usual focus of just the Democratic side (yes Dems and Socialists - don't get too high on your horse as you have been the KGB/SVR bitches for decades).

This Is What They Do.

For a country of Kleptocrats Russia is backwards, a GDP of Mexico with 10k nukes. A country surrounded by Cease-Fires. They cannot fix themselves, they have a declining population, significant alcoholism and drug use (HIV is fairly rampant in RUS), and a reducing average age of death. They only benefit when others do not do well and they were really looking bad in comparison to the countries surrounding them.

When Putin controls Ed Snowden (even Congressional Dems and Reps agree Eddy is a SVR tool) and Wikileaks and uses them to spin his tales and disrupt the western intelligence and electoral systems - who benefits?

Cui Bono

So Eat Drink and Be Merry in the fest 'ole Vlad has prepared for us as Tomorrow We Die.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Couple thoughts:

The past decade has seen Russia playing havoc on elections all over the world. Both in favor of one group as well as to sow general discord among the citizens. They have done this all over Europe and are now doing it the USA.

So, yes, Putin is trying to influence our election and he is succeeding. And he is (for once) backing the Republican side. Rather than the usual focus of just the Democratic side (yes Dems and Socialists - don't get too high on your horse as you have been the KGB/SVR bitches for decades).

This Is What They Do.

For a country of Kleptocrats Russia is backwards, a GDP of Mexico with 10k nukes. A country surrounded by Cease-Fires. They cannot fix themselves, they have a declining population, significant alcoholism and drug use (HIV is fairly rampant in RUS), and a reducing average age of death. They only benefit when others do not do well and they were really looking bad in comparison to the countries surrounding them.

When Putin controls Ed Snowden (even Congressional Dems and Reps agree Eddy is a SVR tool) and Wikileaks and uses them to spin his tales and disrupt the western intelligence and electoral systems - who benefits?

Cui Bono

So Eat Drink and Be Merry in the fest 'ole Vlad has prepared for us as Tomorrow We Die.

Unless Putin has infiltrated our government agencies, State Dept., and high level advisers, as the Soviets did from the 1930's through the Truman administration, it would be difficult to impossible for him to influence our policies as the Commies did back then.

It is only from within that we can be truly threatened. If the WikiLeaks are not doctored, how can the truth threaten us? It is difficult enough without clandestine revelations to get at the truth. How do we make important political decisions if we can only look through the glass darkly?

Election discussions have been focused on the supposed character of the candidates. There has been little, if any, discussion of how the election will affect fundamental principles of how we are governed which is the very nature and purpose for which elections were instituted. Elections have become what the Founders feared. They have become the vehicle with which various groups can feed at the public trough or gain advantage for one group over another. They have become an aid to the growth of government not only in scope and power, but as the director of how we live, what is culturally correct, and the creator of what rights we have . . . or don't have.

If we "die" tomorrow, it will be because we become something other than what we once were. If we "die" tomorrow, it will be a death of liberty, and the birth of unlimited government. Putin can't make that happen. Only we, the people, can.

[Pete F.]

Walks like a duck, talks like a duck?

Putin personally authorised a secret spy agency operation to support a “mentally unstable” Donald Trump in the 2016 US presidential election during a closed session of Russia’s national security council, according to what are assessed to be leaked Kremlin documents.
The key meeting took place on 22 January 2016, the papers suggest, with the Russian president, his spy chiefs and senior ministers all present.
They agreed a Trump White House would help secure Moscow’s strategic objectives, among them “social turmoil” in the US and a weakening of the American president’s negotiating position.
Russia’s three spy agencies were ordered to find practical ways to support Trump, in a decree appearing to bear Putin’s signature.
By this point Trump was the frontrunner in the Republican party’s nomination race. A report prepared by Putin’s expert department recommended Moscow use “all possible force” to ensure a Trump victory.
Western intelligence agencies are understood to have been aware of the documents for some months and to have carefully examined them. The papers, seen by the Guardian, seem to represent a serious and highly unusual leak from within the Kremlin.
The Guardian has shown the documents to independent experts who say they appear to be genuine. Incidental details come across as accurate. The overall tone and thrust is said to be consistent with Kremlin security thinking.

Kremlin papers appear to show Putin’s plot to put Trump in White House
Exclusive: Documents suggest Russia launched secret multi-agency effort to interfere in us election
Vladimir Putin personally authorised a secret spy agency operation to support a “mentally unstable” Donald Trump in the 2016 US presidential election during a closed session of Russia’s national security council, according to what are assessed to be leaked Kremlin documents.
The key meeting took place on 22 January 2016, the papers suggest, with the Russian president, his spy chiefs and senior ministers all present.
They agreed a Trump White House would help secure Moscow’s strategic objectives, among them “social turmoil” in the US and a weakening of the American president’s negotiating position.

Russia’s three spy agencies were ordered to find practical ways to support Trump, in a decree appearing to bear Putin’s signature.
By this point Trump was the frontrunner in the Republican party’s nomination race. A report prepared by Putin’s expert department recommended Moscow use “all possible force” to ensure a Trump victory.
Western intelligence agencies are understood to have been aware of the documents for some months and to have carefully examined them. The papers, seen by the Guardian, seem to represent a serious and highly unusual leak from within the Kremlin.
The Guardian has shown the documents to independent experts who say they appear to be genuine. Incidental details come across as accurate. The overall tone and thrust is said to be consistent with Kremlin security thinking.
Vladimir Putin holds a meeting with permanent members of the security council on 22 January 2016 at the Kremlin
Vladimir Putin holds a meeting with permanent members of the security council on 22 January 2016 at the Kremlin. Photograph: Alexei Nikolsky/Russian presidential press service/TASS
The Kremlin responded dismissively. Putin’s spokesman Dmitri Peskov said the idea that Russian leaders had met and agreed to support Trump in at the meeting in early 2016 was “a great pulp fiction” when contacted by the Guardian on Thursday morning.

The report – “No 32-04 \ vd” – is classified as secret. It says Trump is the “most promising candidate” from the Kremlin’s point of view. The word in Russian is perspektivny.
There is a brief psychological assessment of Trump, who is described as an “impulsive, mentally unstable and unbalanced individual who suffers from an inferiority complex”.
There is also apparent confirmation that the Kremlin possesses kompromat, or potentially compromising material, on the future president, collected – the document says – from Trump’s earlier “non-official visits to Russian Federation territory”.
The paper refers to “certain events” that happened during Trump’s trips to Moscow. Security council members are invited to find details in appendix five, at paragraph five, the document states. It is unclear what the appendix contains.
“It is acutely necessary to use all possible force to facilitate his [Trump’s] election to the post of US president,” the paper says.
This would help bring about Russia’s favoured “theoretical political scenario”. A Trump win “will definitely lead to the destabilisation of the US’s sociopolitical system” and see hidden discontent burst into the open, it predicts.
The Kremlin summit

There is no doubt that the meeting in January 2016 took place – and that it was convened inside the Kremlin.
An official photo of the occasion shows Putin at the head of the table, seated beneath a Russian Federation flag and a two-headed golden eagle. Russia’s then prime minister, Dmitry Medvedev, attended, together with the veteran foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov.
Also present were Sergei Shoigu, the defence minister in charge of the GRU, Russia’s military intelligence agency; Mikhail Fradkov, the then chief of Russia’s SVR foreign intelligence service; and Alexander Bortnikov, the boss of the FSB spy agency.Nikolai Patrushev, the FSB’s former director, attended too as security council secretary.
According to a press release, the discussion covered the economy and Moldova.
The document seen by the Guardian suggests the security council’s real, covert purpose was to discuss the confidential proposals drawn up by the president’s analytical service in response to US sanctions against Moscow.
The author appears to be Vladimir Symonenko, the senior official in charge of the Kremlin’s expert department – which provides Putin with analytical material and reports, some of them based on foreign intelligence.
The papers indicate that on 14 January 2016 Symonenko circulated a three-page executive summary of his team’s conclusions and recommendations.
In a signed order two days later, Putin instructed the then chief of his foreign policy directorate, Alexander Manzhosin, to convene a closed briefing of the national security council.
Its purpose was to further study the document, the order says. Manzhosin was given a deadline of five days to make arrangements.
What was said inside the second-floor Kremlin senate building room is unknown. But the president and his intelligence officials appear to have signed off on a multi-agency plan to interfere in US democracy, framed in terms of justified self-defence.
Various measures are cited that the Kremlin might adopt in response to what it sees as hostile acts from Washington. The paper lays out several American weaknesses. These include a “deepening political gulf between left and right”, the US’s “media-information” space, and an anti-establishment mood under President Barack Obama.
The paper does not name Hillary Clinton, Trump’s 2016 rival. It does suggest employing media resources to undermine leading US political figures.
There are paragraphs on how Russia might insert “media viruses” into American public life, which could become self-sustaining and self-replicating. These would alter mass consciousness, especially in certain groups, it says.
After the meeting, according to a separate leaked document, Putin issued a decree setting up a new and secret interdepartmental commission. Its urgent task was to realise the goals set out in the “special part” of document No 32-04 \ vd.
Members of the new working body were stated to include Shoigu, Fradkov and Bortnikov. Shoigu was named commission chair. The decree – ukaz in Russian – said the group should take practical steps against the US as soon as possible. These were justified on national security grounds and in accordance with a 2010 federal law, 390-FZ, which allows the council to formulate state policy on security matters.
According to the document, each spy agency was given a role. The defence minister was instructed to coordinate the work of subdivisions and services. Shoigu was also responsible for collecting and systematising necessary information and for “preparing measures to act on the information environment of the object” – a command, it seems, to hack sensitive American cyber-targets identified by the SVR.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Walks like a duck, talks like a duck?

Putin personally authorised a secret spy agency operation to support a “mentally unstable” Donald Trump in the 2016 US presidential election during a closed session of Russia’s national security council, according to what are assessed to be leaked Kremlin documents.
The key meeting took place on 22 January 2016, the papers suggest, with the Russian president, his spy chiefs and senior ministers all present.
size=1]Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device[/size]

"People That Were Constantly Wrong About Russia Are Pushing Yet Another Dubious Trump/Putin Story":

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...?ocid=msedgntp

[Pete F.]

If that Guardian story is disinformation (and I agree that's likely), it would have the effect of shifting the known timeline and players in the 2016 operation.
What few are doing, however, is comparing the claims in the Guardian document to what we (think we) know about the 2016 operation, which not only is a good way to test their accuracy but also might answer the question Douglas London raised with Unger: “‘Coincidence and convenience are red flags in espionage,’ he told SpyTalk. ‘So why now?'”

If these documents are disinformation, they would change the known story in at least two ways. The resulting story would sustain a claim that both key events and key players in the 2016 Russian operation weren’t really part of that operation. That is, if this is disinformation, it likely was told to try to obscure who were the most important players in the 2016 operation and what events were part of it.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

If that Guardian story is disinformation (and I agree that's likely), it would have the effect of shifting the known timeline and players in the 2016 operation.
What few are doing, however, is comparing the claims in the Guardian document to what we (think we) know about the 2016 operation, which not only is a good way to test their accuracy but also might answer the question Douglas London raised with Unger: “‘Coincidence and convenience are red flags in espionage,’ he told SpyTalk. ‘So why now?'”

If these documents are disinformation, they would change the known story in at least two ways. The resulting story would sustain a claim that both key events and key players in the 2016 Russian operation weren’t really part of that operation. That is, if this is disinformation, it likely was told to try to obscure who were the most important players in the 2016 operation and what events were part of it.
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Ah, the why's and if's and likely's and at leasts of disinformation sure do raise questions. And nobody can know the answers. But they make good insinuations.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Ah, the why's and if's and likely's and at leasts of disinformation sure do raise questions. And nobody can know the answers. But they make good insinuations.

Time and daylight bring the answers, constant obstruction delays the emergence of the truth.
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[Pete F.]

If you wanted to make it okay to save Trump Organization as it faces the challenges of prosecution, you might tell a story that dissociated the 2015-2016 Trump Tower Moscow dangle from the attempt to steal an election--just like that Guardian "scoop"
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Time and daylight bring the answers, constant obstruction delays the emergence of the truth.
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Who obstructed The Guardian?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

If you wanted to make it okay to save Trump Organization as it faces the challenges of prosecution, you might tell a story that dissociated the 2015-2016 Trump Tower Moscow dangle from the attempt to steal an election--just like that Guardian "scoop"
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If, might, maybe, could be, etc., etc., etc. . . . .... If you wanted to not save Trump, you might want to tell a story.

[Pete F.]

Donald Trump is under confirmed criminal investigation in three different states, two of which have gone to grand jury, one of which has begun issuing criminal indictments. It’s not some “conspiracy theory” to say that Trump is on track for prison. It’s fact based analysis.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Donald Trump is under confirmed criminal investigation in three different states, two of which have gone to grand jury, one of which has begun issuing criminal indictments. It’s not some “conspiracy theory” to say that Trump is on track for prison. It’s fact based analysis.
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OK. If he's guilty, or at least "found" so, he'll be convicted . . . probably. I'm sure you'll be happy with that. So what?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Who obstructed The Guardian?

Who obstructed Mueller, Congress and NYS and federal prosecutors?
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Who obstructed Mueller, Congress and NYS and federal prosecutors?
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Nobody.

[detbuch]