Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

     

Left Nav S-B Home FAQ Members List S-B on Facebook Arcade WEAX Tides Buoys Calendar Today's Posts Right Nav

Left Container Right Container
 

Go Back   Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating » Striper Chat - Discuss stuff other than fishing ~ The Scuppers and Political talk » Political Threads

Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

 
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-18-2022, 09:18 AM   #121
Pete F.
Canceled
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
Corporate profits up about $750 billion (annualized) vs. pre-crisis (Q4 '19), about 40%.

That represents about $5,800 per household; inflation is about $3,600 per household.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
i dont dispute that. if you want what they have, do what they did. or stop whining about it. envy isn’t healthy. if you didn’t buy oil when it was at $35, you missed out. remember that next time.

i’d like to see data that the average american household is paying $5800 more per year on gas. i don’t believe that math. that’s what i dispute. i think he made it up.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Where did I say it was only gas?

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?

Lets Go Darwin
Pete F. is offline  
Old 03-18-2022, 09:28 AM   #122
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
Where did I say it was only gas?
you didn’t. but we were talking about gas. my bad.

so what’s your point? that under biden, american families are getting slammed?

we already knew that.

the $8b increase in net worth for 18 ceos? it’s mostly due to stock prices. they didn’t steal
it from you pete. do you seriously not get that?

stick price increases help everyone who owns the stock.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Last edited by Jim in CT; 03-18-2022 at 09:33 AM..
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 03-18-2022, 09:49 AM   #123
Pete F.
Canceled
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
you didn’t. but we were talking about gas. my bad.

so what’s your point? that under biden, american families are getting slammed?

we already knew that.

the $8b increase in net worth for 18 ceos? it’s mostly due to stock prices. they didn’t steal
it from you pete. do you seriously not get that?

stick price increases help everyone who owns the stock.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Stock prices are not the same as corporate profits though they can be driven by increases in volume, increases in profitability or stock buybacks.
Stock buybacks do little to ensure the future viability of a corporation, since they are made instead of capital investments.
Guess what corporate America’s doing
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?

Lets Go Darwin
Pete F. is offline  
Old 03-18-2022, 10:11 AM   #124
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
Stock prices are not the same as corporate profits though they can be driven by increases in volume, increases in profitability or stock buybacks.
Stock buybacks do little to ensure the future viability of a corporation, since they are made instead of capital investments.
Guess what corporate America’s doing
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
You were complaining about the increase in net worth of CEOs of the largest companies. Their net worth is usually tied to stock prices, because they have tons of options. They didn't make $8B in ordinary income this year.

"Stock buybacks do little to ensure the future viability of a corporation"

So you know more than the CFOs of those publicly traded companies. Sure, why not! Stock buybacks are usually a sign that a company thinks it's in a good place. Stock buybacks aren't the evil boogeyman liberals paint them to be. They can be beneficial to everyone who owns stock.

Last edited by Jim in CT; 03-18-2022 at 10:19 AM..
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 03-18-2022, 11:18 AM   #125
Pete F.
Canceled
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
You were complaining about the increase in net worth of CEOs of the largest companies. Their net worth is usually tied to stock prices, because they have tons of options. They didn't make $8B in ordinary income this year.

"Stock buybacks do little to ensure the future viability of a corporation"

So you know more than the CFOs of those publicly traded companies. Sure, why not! Stock buybacks are usually a sign that a company thinks it's in a good place. Stock buybacks aren't the evil boogeyman liberals paint them to be. They can be beneficial to everyone who owns stock.
The same guys didn't invest in american industry after the 50s and 60s and sent American jobs overseas and claimed it was beneficial to everyone.
Look around New England at the woolen business, machine tool industry, stone business, wire, etc.
All gone because of a failure to make capitol investments and improvements.

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?

Lets Go Darwin
Pete F. is offline  
Old 03-18-2022, 11:22 AM   #126
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
The same guys didn't invest in american industry after the 50s and 60s and sent American jobs overseas and claimed it was beneficial to everyone.
Look around New England at the woolen business, machine tool industry, stone business, wire, etc.
All gone because of a failure to make capitol investments and improvements.
can you tell me which 8 companies have the ceo’s you’re referring to? those companies aren’t investing in awrica? how many americans work at those 8 companies?

pete, you are free to start your own business. since you’re so much smarter than those guys, surely you’ll be a rapid success and not to the way of David Hoags pillow company.

American manufacturing is gone because we globalized them economy. Americans want low prices, which means cheap labor. no amount of investment overcomes that.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 03-19-2022, 06:12 AM   #127
Pete F.
Canceled
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
can you tell me which 8 companies have the ceo’s you’re referring to? those companies aren’t investing in awrica? how many americans work at those 8 companies?

pete, you are free to start your own business. since you’re so much smarter than those guys, surely you’ll be a rapid success and not to the way of David Hoags pillow company.

American manufacturing is gone because we globalized them economy. Americans want low prices, which means cheap labor. no amount of investment overcomes that.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Exactly the mindset that got us here

But it’s nothing new

"As one digs deeper into the national character of the Americans, one sees that they have sought the value of everything in this world only in the answer to this single question: how much money will it bring in?" -Alexis de Tocqueville, 1831
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?

Lets Go Darwin
Pete F. is offline  
Old 03-19-2022, 08:51 AM   #128
detbuch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
Exactly the mindset that got us here

But it’s nothing new

"As one digs deeper into the national character of the Americans, one sees that they have sought the value of everything in this world only in the answer to this single question: how much money will it bring in?" -Alexis de Tocqueville, 1831
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Another observation by Alexis de Tocqueville regarding the Progressive mindset you wish would replace the original American one:

"Any measure that establishes legal charity on a permanent basis and gives it an administrative form thereby creates an idle and lazy class, living at the expense of the industrial and working class."
detbuch is offline  
Old 03-19-2022, 12:22 PM   #129
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
Exactly the mindset that got us here

But it’s nothing new

"As one digs deeper into the national character of the Americans, one sees that they have sought the value of everything in this world only in the answer to this single question: how much money will it bring in?" -Alexis de Tocqueville, 1831
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
pete, do you ever buy anything where you can get the best deal?

money isn’t all i think about. but i don’t like to overpay either.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 03-19-2022, 12:22 PM   #130
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch View Post
Another observation by Alexis de Tocqueville regarding the Progressive mindset you wish would replace the original American one:

"Any measure that establishes legal charity on a permanent basis and gives it an administrative form thereby creates an idle and lazy class, living at the expense of the industrial and working class."
i’d truly like to
see his comeback to that one.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 03-19-2022, 01:31 PM   #131
Pete F.
Canceled
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
Never fear DeToqueville would be more concerned about the creation of an American ruling class of Oligarchs that seek to rule the industrial and working class through control of the political process than the powerless bottom of society.
There’s a reason wealth has been flowing away from the middle class for the last 40 years
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Pete F. is offline  
Old 03-19-2022, 02:02 PM   #132
wdmso
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,197
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/19/10869...crude-drilling


Here are 3 reasons why Big Oil can't just drill more to ease the pain at the gas pump


The point from which you drill a rig to the point that you can turn it online, it takes about six to eight months typically,


The number of workers producing oil and gas had been steadily decreasing since 2015.


"Energy companies were very afraid to ramp production because they were going to get punished by investors,

those same investors that may now prevent oil companies from boosting production too much, even as others push for a "drill, baby, drill"
wdmso is offline  
Old 03-19-2022, 06:46 PM   #133
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/19/10869...crude-drilling


Here are 3 reasons why Big Oil can't just drill more to ease the pain at the gas pump


The point from which you drill a rig to the point that you can turn it online, it takes about six to eight months typically,


The number of workers producing oil and gas had been steadily decreasing since 2015.


"Energy companies were very afraid to ramp production because they were going to get punished by investors,

those same investors that may now prevent oil companies from boosting production too much, even as others push for a "drill, baby, drill"
if the biden administration hadn’t put a moratorium on new leases when they took office in january 2021 ( more than 6 to 8 months ago), how much more might we be producing?

it’s also speculative pricing wdmso, you know those. pricing is based, in part, on a the speculation of what supply will be.

Not one person in the world
believed that Biden was going to
increase oil production. Every sane person believed production would
decrease. that’s going to increase price, all other things being equal.

you can’t win this. it’s a lie to say biden caused all of it. it’s also a lie to say he had no hand in it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 03-19-2022, 07:44 PM   #134
wdmso
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
if the biden administration hadn’t put a moratorium on new leases when they took office in january 2021 ( more than 6 to 8 months ago), how much more might we be producing?

it’s also speculative pricing wdmso, you know those. pricing is based, in part, on a the speculation of what supply will be.

Not one person in the world
believed that Biden was going to
increase oil production. Every sane person believed production would
decrease. that’s going to increase price, all other things being equal.

you can’t win this. it’s a lie to say biden caused all of it. it’s also a lie to say he had no hand in it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
biden administration hadn’t put a moratorium on new leases when they took office in january 2021 ( more than 6 to 8 months ago), how much more might we be producing?

None ! Jim your still clinging to a lie

The oil companies had plenty of unused leases they decided not to use them . It’s that simple
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
wdmso is offline  
Old 03-19-2022, 09:03 PM   #135
detbuch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
Never fear DeToqueville would be more concerned about the creation of an American ruling class of Oligarchs that seek to rule the industrial and working class through control of the political process than the powerless bottom of society.
There’s a reason wealth has been flowing away from the middle class for the last 40 years
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
You're blaming de Tocqueville for the last 40 years? So it took 150 years for de Tocqueville's concerns to kick in?

So the "national character" of Americans that he spoke of had nothing to do with that first 150 years which led to the creation of the American middle class? But, in the last 40 years, our national character finally kicked in to start the destruction of the middle class (the nation of shopkeepers de Tocqueville referred to) that had somehow supposedly been created in spite of 150 years of an entrenched and revered American national character?

Actually, what followed the first century of growth through domination by the American national character was the rise and ultimate dominance of American Progressivism. It is that Progressivism, with its required growth of the federal government's size and scope of power--the centralization of American governmental power--resulting (over the last 40 years) in our present administrative state with its highest and most powerful than ever regulatory grip on the American economy accompanied by its inevitable marriage to the larger centralized corporations that have resulted from the failure of the many, more diversified, smaller businesses due to excessive regulatory burdens.

And thus the shrinking of the American middle class. De Tocqueville's notion of an original American national character had less to do with it than the shrinking of the American constitutional character that has been reinterpreted and squashed by the necessities of Progressive authoritarianism.
detbuch is offline  
Old 03-20-2022, 06:20 AM   #136
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post
biden administration hadn’t put a moratorium on new leases when they took office in january 2021 ( more than 6 to 8 months ago), how much more might we be producing?

None ! Jim your still clinging to a lie

The oil companies had plenty of unused leases they decided not to use them . It’s that simple
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
what if the unused leases are unused, because they aren’t as promising as the leases that biden denied. how could you possibly know that’s not the case?

somehow, you know that all
the leases that biden denied, in total, wouldn’t have produced a drop? you know this?

your making stuff up off of thin air.

had any democrat ever made a bad call in your opinion? ever?

all you do is praise democrats and bash republicans.

the oil pricing responded to bidens actions, the way everyone knew they would. because he’s hostile to fossil fuel.

no worries, Buttigieg says we can save money by taking the bus. because that’s practical
for everyone. there are no buses in my town.

in a few months we’ll find out who america believes.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 03-20-2022, 10:49 AM   #137
Pete F.
Canceled
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch View Post
You're blaming de Tocqueville for the last 40 years? So it took 150 years for de Tocqueville's concerns to kick in?

So the "national character" of Americans that he spoke of had nothing to do with that first 150 years which led to the creation of the American middle class? But, in the last 40 years, our national character finally kicked in to start the destruction of the middle class (the nation of shopkeepers de Tocqueville referred to) that had somehow supposedly been created in spite of 150 years of an entrenched and revered American national character?

Actually, what followed the first century of growth through domination by the American national character was the rise and ultimate dominance of American Progressivism. It is that Progressivism, with its required growth of the federal government's size and scope of power--the centralization of American governmental power--resulting (over the last 40 years) in our present administrative state with its highest and most powerful than ever regulatory grip on the American economy accompanied by its inevitable marriage to the larger centralized corporations that have resulted from the failure of the many, more diversified, smaller businesses due to excessive regulatory burdens.

And thus the shrinking of the American middle class. De Tocqueville's notion of an original American national character had less to do with it than the shrinking of the American constitutional character that has been reinterpreted and squashed by the necessities of Progressive authoritarianism.
With the Citizen united decision corporations acquired the ability to own politicians, Russia did also
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?

Lets Go Darwin
Pete F. is offline  
Old 03-20-2022, 10:56 AM   #138
Pete F.
Canceled
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
BREAKING: as a result of the trucker’s protest, President Biden has agreed to lower gas prices to $3 on Monday.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Pete F. is offline  
Old 03-20-2022, 05:36 PM   #139
detbuch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
With the Citizen united decision corporations acquired the ability to own politicians, Russia did also
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
So then it's not, as you implied, the national character of early to mid 20th century Americans , it's the corporations owning politicians since 2010 that resulted in the shrinking middle class? Did the corporations own the Democrat politicians in 2020?

Seems like if the corporations have the ability to own politicians, they would own all of them from both parties.

Also seems that politicians essentially are competing for positions of high paid slavery.

And so, it seems that the country is one big plantation. The corporations own the politicians; the politicians do the corporations' bidding and pass regulations that benefit the corporations.

And so, instead of a free market competition of a vast number of diverse businesses of all sizes, and a government harnessed by several separations of power and specifically limited constitutional limitations, we have less of the diversity in businesses of varying value, but fewer and larger businesses which centralize the production and sale of products and a larger centralized governmental system with power well beyond that granted in the Constitution.

Sounds like something that would suit Progressive authoritarianism quite well.
detbuch is offline  
Old 03-20-2022, 08:50 PM   #140
Pete F.
Canceled
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch View Post
So then it's not, as you implied, the national character of early to mid 20th century Americans , it's the corporations owning politicians since 2010 that resulted in the shrinking middle class? Did the corporations own the Democrat politicians in 2020?

Seems like if the corporations have the ability to own politicians, they would own all of them from both parties.

Also seems that politicians essentially are competing for positions of high paid slavery.

And so, it seems that the country is one big plantation. The corporations own the politicians; the politicians do the corporations' bidding and pass regulations that benefit the corporations.

And so, instead of a free market competition of a vast number of diverse businesses of all sizes, and a government harnessed by several separations of power and specifically limited constitutional limitations, we have less of the diversity in businesses of varying value, but fewer and larger businesses which centralize the production and sale of products and a larger centralized governmental system with power well beyond that granted in the Constitution.

Sounds like something that would suit Progressive authoritarianism quite well.
Then why is it enabled by both parties?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?

Lets Go Darwin
Pete F. is offline  
Old 03-20-2022, 09:35 PM   #141
detbuch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
Then why is it enabled by both parties?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Insofar as it might actually be the case (I did pose it as questions directed to you), because:

Both parties and the SCOTUS have, to varying degrees, abandoned our constitutional order.

As well, political office has become a path to lifetime employment--during and then after tenure and into retirement.

And, mostly, Progressivism is winning the battle versus constitutionalism.

And a lot of politicians are either corrupt or corruptible, which may always have been true, or might be more so than ever.

Last edited by detbuch; 03-21-2022 at 10:10 AM..
detbuch is offline  
Old 03-23-2022, 06:21 AM   #142
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
I think what we really need to do is decolonize chemistry.....
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	274760323_498432051651853_4403979852383559934_n.jpeg
Views:	126
Size:	52.1 KB
ID:	68795  
scottw is offline  
 

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Please use all necessary and proper safety precautions. STAY SAFE Striper Talk Forums
Copyright 1998-20012 Striped-Bass.com