$125/barrel and rising.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Corporate profits up about $750 billion (annualized) vs. pre-crisis (Q4 '19), about 40%.

That represents about $5,800 per household; inflation is about $3,600 per household.
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Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i dont dispute that. if you want what they have, do what they did. or stop whining about it. envy isn’t healthy. if you didn’t buy oil when it was at $35, you missed out. remember that next time.

i’d like to see data that the average american household is paying $5800 more per year on gas. i don’t believe that math. that’s what i dispute. i think he made it up.
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Where did I say it was only gas?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Where did I say it was only gas?

you didn’t. but we were talking about gas. my bad.

so what’s your point? that under biden, american families are getting slammed?

we already knew that.

the $8b increase in net worth for 18 ceos? it’s mostly due to stock prices. they didn’t steal
it from you pete. do you seriously not get that?

stick price increases help everyone who owns the stock.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you didn’t. but we were talking about gas. my bad.

so what’s your point? that under biden, american families are getting slammed?

we already knew that.

the $8b increase in net worth for 18 ceos? it’s mostly due to stock prices. they didn’t steal
it from you pete. do you seriously not get that?

stick price increases help everyone who owns the stock.
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Stock prices are not the same as corporate profits though they can be driven by increases in volume, increases in profitability or stock buybacks.
Stock buybacks do little to ensure the future viability of a corporation, since they are made instead of capital investments.
Guess what corporate America’s doing
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Stock prices are not the same as corporate profits though they can be driven by increases in volume, increases in profitability or stock buybacks.
Stock buybacks do little to ensure the future viability of a corporation, since they are made instead of capital investments.
Guess what corporate America’s doing
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You were complaining about the increase in net worth of CEOs of the largest companies. Their net worth is usually tied to stock prices, because they have tons of options. They didn't make $8B in ordinary income this year.

"Stock buybacks do little to ensure the future viability of a corporation"

So you know more than the CFOs of those publicly traded companies. Sure, why not! Stock buybacks are usually a sign that a company thinks it's in a good place. Stock buybacks aren't the evil boogeyman liberals paint them to be. They can be beneficial to everyone who owns stock.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You were complaining about the increase in net worth of CEOs of the largest companies. Their net worth is usually tied to stock prices, because they have tons of options. They didn't make $8B in ordinary income this year.

"Stock buybacks do little to ensure the future viability of a corporation"

So you know more than the CFOs of those publicly traded companies. Sure, why not! Stock buybacks are usually a sign that a company thinks it's in a good place. Stock buybacks aren't the evil boogeyman liberals paint them to be. They can be beneficial to everyone who owns stock.

The same guys didn't invest in american industry after the 50s and 60s and sent American jobs overseas and claimed it was beneficial to everyone.
Look around New England at the woolen business, machine tool industry, stone business, wire, etc.
All gone because of a failure to make capitol investments and improvements.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The same guys didn't invest in american industry after the 50s and 60s and sent American jobs overseas and claimed it was beneficial to everyone.
Look around New England at the woolen business, machine tool industry, stone business, wire, etc.
All gone because of a failure to make capitol investments and improvements.

can you tell me which 8 companies have the ceo’s you’re referring to? those companies aren’t investing in awrica? how many americans work at those 8 companies?

pete, you are free to start your own business. since you’re so much smarter than those guys, surely you’ll be a rapid success and not to the way of David Hoags pillow company.

American manufacturing is gone because we globalized them economy. Americans want low prices, which means cheap labor. no amount of investment overcomes that.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

can you tell me which 8 companies have the ceo’s you’re referring to? those companies aren’t investing in awrica? how many americans work at those 8 companies?

pete, you are free to start your own business. since you’re so much smarter than those guys, surely you’ll be a rapid success and not to the way of David Hoags pillow company.

American manufacturing is gone because we globalized them economy. Americans want low prices, which means cheap labor. no amount of investment overcomes that.
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Exactly the mindset that got us here

But it’s nothing new

"As one digs deeper into the national character of the Americans, one sees that they have sought the value of everything in this world only in the answer to this single question: how much money will it bring in?" -Alexis de Tocqueville, 1831
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Exactly the mindset that got us here

But it’s nothing new

"As one digs deeper into the national character of the Americans, one sees that they have sought the value of everything in this world only in the answer to this single question: how much money will it bring in?" -Alexis de Tocqueville, 1831
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Another observation by Alexis de Tocqueville regarding the Progressive mindset you wish would replace the original American one:

"Any measure that establishes legal charity on a permanent basis and gives it an administrative form thereby creates an idle and lazy class, living at the expense of the industrial and working class."

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Exactly the mindset that got us here

But it’s nothing new

"As one digs deeper into the national character of the Americans, one sees that they have sought the value of everything in this world only in the answer to this single question: how much money will it bring in?" -Alexis de Tocqueville, 1831
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pete, do you ever buy anything where you can get the best deal?

money isn’t all i think about. but i don’t like to overpay either.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Another observation by Alexis de Tocqueville regarding the Progressive mindset you wish would replace the original American one:

"Any measure that establishes legal charity on a permanent basis and gives it an administrative form thereby creates an idle and lazy class, living at the expense of the industrial and working class."

i’d truly like to
see his comeback to that one.
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[Pete F.]

Never fear DeToqueville would be more concerned about the creation of an American ruling class of Oligarchs that seek to rule the industrial and working class through control of the political process than the powerless bottom of society.
There’s a reason wealth has been flowing away from the middle class for the last 40 years
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[wdmso]

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/19/10869...crude-drilling


Here are 3 reasons why Big Oil can't just drill more to ease the pain at the gas pump


The point from which you drill a rig to the point that you can turn it online, it takes about six to eight months typically,


The number of workers producing oil and gas had been steadily decreasing since 2015.


"Energy companies were very afraid to ramp production because they were going to get punished by investors,

those same investors that may now prevent oil companies from boosting production too much, even as others push for a "drill, baby, drill"

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/19/10869...crude-drilling


Here are 3 reasons why Big Oil can't just drill more to ease the pain at the gas pump


The point from which you drill a rig to the point that you can turn it online, it takes about six to eight months typically,


The number of workers producing oil and gas had been steadily decreasing since 2015.


"Energy companies were very afraid to ramp production because they were going to get punished by investors,

those same investors that may now prevent oil companies from boosting production too much, even as others push for a "drill, baby, drill"

if the biden administration hadn’t put a moratorium on new leases when they took office in january 2021 ( more than 6 to 8 months ago), how much more might we be producing?

it’s also speculative pricing wdmso, you know those. pricing is based, in part, on a the speculation of what supply will be.

Not one person in the world
believed that Biden was going to
increase oil production. Every sane person believed production would
decrease. that’s going to increase price, all other things being equal.

you can’t win this. it’s a lie to say biden caused all of it. it’s also a lie to say he had no hand in it.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

if the biden administration hadn’t put a moratorium on new leases when they took office in january 2021 ( more than 6 to 8 months ago), how much more might we be producing?

it’s also speculative pricing wdmso, you know those. pricing is based, in part, on a the speculation of what supply will be.

Not one person in the world
believed that Biden was going to
increase oil production. Every sane person believed production would
decrease. that’s going to increase price, all other things being equal.

you can’t win this. it’s a lie to say biden caused all of it. it’s also a lie to say he had no hand in it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

biden administration hadn’t put a moratorium on new leases when they took office in january 2021 ( more than 6 to 8 months ago), how much more might we be producing?

None ! Jim your still clinging to a lie

The oil companies had plenty of unused leases they decided not to use them . It’s that simple
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Never fear DeToqueville would be more concerned about the creation of an American ruling class of Oligarchs that seek to rule the industrial and working class through control of the political process than the powerless bottom of society.
There’s a reason wealth has been flowing away from the middle class for the last 40 years
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You're blaming de Tocqueville for the last 40 years? So it took 150 years for de Tocqueville's concerns to kick in?

So the "national character" of Americans that he spoke of had nothing to do with that first 150 years which led to the creation of the American middle class? But, in the last 40 years, our national character finally kicked in to start the destruction of the middle class (the nation of shopkeepers de Tocqueville referred to) that had somehow supposedly been created in spite of 150 years of an entrenched and revered American national character?

Actually, what followed the first century of growth through domination by the American national character was the rise and ultimate dominance of American Progressivism. It is that Progressivism, with its required growth of the federal government's size and scope of power--the centralization of American governmental power--resulting (over the last 40 years) in our present administrative state with its highest and most powerful than ever regulatory grip on the American economy accompanied by its inevitable marriage to the larger centralized corporations that have resulted from the failure of the many, more diversified, smaller businesses due to excessive regulatory burdens.

And thus the shrinking of the American middle class. De Tocqueville's notion of an original American national character had less to do with it than the shrinking of the American constitutional character that has been reinterpreted and squashed by the necessities of Progressive authoritarianism.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

biden administration hadn’t put a moratorium on new leases when they took office in january 2021 ( more than 6 to 8 months ago), how much more might we be producing?

None ! Jim your still clinging to a lie

The oil companies had plenty of unused leases they decided not to use them . It’s that simple
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

what if the unused leases are unused, because they aren’t as promising as the leases that biden denied. how could you possibly know that’s not the case?

somehow, you know that all
the leases that biden denied, in total, wouldn’t have produced a drop? you know this?

your making stuff up off of thin air.

had any democrat ever made a bad call in your opinion? ever?

all you do is praise democrats and bash republicans.

the oil pricing responded to bidens actions, the way everyone knew they would. because he’s hostile to fossil fuel.

no worries, Buttigieg says we can save money by taking the bus. because that’s practical
for everyone. there are no buses in my town.

in a few months we’ll find out who america believes.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

You're blaming de Tocqueville for the last 40 years? So it took 150 years for de Tocqueville's concerns to kick in?

So the "national character" of Americans that he spoke of had nothing to do with that first 150 years which led to the creation of the American middle class? But, in the last 40 years, our national character finally kicked in to start the destruction of the middle class (the nation of shopkeepers de Tocqueville referred to) that had somehow supposedly been created in spite of 150 years of an entrenched and revered American national character?

Actually, what followed the first century of growth through domination by the American national character was the rise and ultimate dominance of American Progressivism. It is that Progressivism, with its required growth of the federal government's size and scope of power--the centralization of American governmental power--resulting (over the last 40 years) in our present administrative state with its highest and most powerful than ever regulatory grip on the American economy accompanied by its inevitable marriage to the larger centralized corporations that have resulted from the failure of the many, more diversified, smaller businesses due to excessive regulatory burdens.

And thus the shrinking of the American middle class. De Tocqueville's notion of an original American national character had less to do with it than the shrinking of the American constitutional character that has been reinterpreted and squashed by the necessities of Progressive authoritarianism.

With the Citizen united decision corporations acquired the ability to own politicians, Russia did also
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[Pete F.]

BREAKING: as a result of the trucker’s protest, President Biden has agreed to lower gas prices to $3 on Monday.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

With the Citizen united decision corporations acquired the ability to own politicians, Russia did also
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So then it's not, as you implied, the national character of early to mid 20th century Americans , it's the corporations owning politicians since 2010 that resulted in the shrinking middle class? Did the corporations own the Democrat politicians in 2020?

Seems like if the corporations have the ability to own politicians, they would own all of them from both parties.

Also seems that politicians essentially are competing for positions of high paid slavery.

And so, it seems that the country is one big plantation. The corporations own the politicians; the politicians do the corporations' bidding and pass regulations that benefit the corporations.

And so, instead of a free market competition of a vast number of diverse businesses of all sizes, and a government harnessed by several separations of power and specifically limited constitutional limitations, we have less of the diversity in businesses of varying value, but fewer and larger businesses which centralize the production and sale of products and a larger centralized governmental system with power well beyond that granted in the Constitution.

Sounds like something that would suit Progressive authoritarianism quite well.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

So then it's not, as you implied, the national character of early to mid 20th century Americans , it's the corporations owning politicians since 2010 that resulted in the shrinking middle class? Did the corporations own the Democrat politicians in 2020?

Seems like if the corporations have the ability to own politicians, they would own all of them from both parties.

Also seems that politicians essentially are competing for positions of high paid slavery.

And so, it seems that the country is one big plantation. The corporations own the politicians; the politicians do the corporations' bidding and pass regulations that benefit the corporations.

And so, instead of a free market competition of a vast number of diverse businesses of all sizes, and a government harnessed by several separations of power and specifically limited constitutional limitations, we have less of the diversity in businesses of varying value, but fewer and larger businesses which centralize the production and sale of products and a larger centralized governmental system with power well beyond that granted in the Constitution.

Sounds like something that would suit Progressive authoritarianism quite well.

Then why is it enabled by both parties?
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Then why is it enabled by both parties?
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Insofar as it might actually be the case (I did pose it as questions directed to you), because:

Both parties and the SCOTUS have, to varying degrees, abandoned our constitutional order.

As well, political office has become a path to lifetime employment--during and then after tenure and into retirement.

And, mostly, Progressivism is winning the battle versus constitutionalism.

And a lot of politicians are either corrupt or corruptible, which may always have been true, or might be more so than ever.

[scottw]

I think what we really need to do is decolonize chemistry.....