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| Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi: |
09-08-2022, 07:26 AM
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#91
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
classic....  |
Classic what about
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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09-09-2022, 04:43 PM
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#92
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,197
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Judge dismisses Trump lawsuit against Hillary Clinton over 2016 election
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09-11-2022, 06:06 AM
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#93
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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When you lose Judge Napolitano…..
It gives me no joy to write this piece.
Even a cursory review of the redacted version of the affidavit submitted in support of the government’s application for a search warrant at the home of former President Donald Trump reveals that he will soon be indicted by a federal grand jury for three crimes: Removing and concealing national defense information (NDI), giving NDI to those not legally entitled to possess it, and obstruction of justice by failing to return NDI to those who are legally entitled to retrieve it.
When he learned from a phone call that 30 FBI agents were at the front door of his Florida residence with a search warrant and he decided to reveal this publicly, Mr. Trump assumed that the agents were looking for classified top-secret materials that they’d allege he criminally possessed. His assumptions were apparently based on his gut instinct and not on a sophisticated analysis of the law. Hence, his public boast that he declassified all the formerly classified documents he took with him.
Unbeknownst to him, the feds had anticipated such a defense and are not preparing to indict him for possessing classified materials, even though he did possess hundreds of voluntarily surrendered materials marked “top secret.” It is irrelevant if the documents were declassified, as the feds will charge crimes that do not require proof of classification. They told the federal judge who signed the search warrant that Mr. Trump still had NDI in his home. It appears they were correct.
Under the law, it doesn’t matter if the documents on which NDI is contained are classified or not, as it is simply and always criminal to have NDI in a non-federal facility, to have those without security clearances move it from one place to another, and to keep it from the feds when they are seeking it. Stated differently, the absence of classification — for whatever reason — is not a defense to the charges that are likely to be filed against Mr. Trump.
Yet, misreading and underestimating the feds, Mr. Trump actually did them a favor. One of the elements that they must prove for any of the three crimes is that Mr. Trump knew that he had the documents. The favor he did was admit to that when he boasted that they were no longer classified. He committed a mortal sin in the criminal defense world by denying something for which he had not been accused.
The second element that the feds must prove is that the documents actually do contain national defense information. And the third element they must prove is that Mr. Trump put these documents into the hands of those not authorized to hold them and stored them in a non-federally secured place. Intelligence community experts have already examined the documents taken from Mr. Trump’s home and are prepared to tell a jury that they contain the names of foreign agents secretly working for the U.S. This is the crown jewel of government secrets. Moreover, Mr. Trump’s Florida home is not a secure federal facility designated for the deposit of NDI.
The newest aspect of the case against Mr. Trump that we learned from the redacted affidavit is the obstruction allegation. This is not the obstruction that Robert Mueller claimed he found Mr. Trump committed during the Russia investigation. This is a newer obstruction statute, signed by President George W. Bush in 2002, that places far fewer burdens on the feds to prove. The older statute is the one Mr. Mueller alleged. It characterizes any material interference with a judicial function as criminal. Thus, one who lies to a grand jury or prevents a witness from testifying commits this variant of obstruction.
But the Bush-era statute, the one the feds contemplate charging Mr. Trump with having violated, makes it a crime of obstruction by failing to return government property or by sending the FBI on a wild goose chase looking for something that belongs to the government and that you know that you have. This statute does not require the preexistence of a judicial proceeding. It only requires that the defendant has the government’s property, knows that he has it and baselessly resists efforts by the government to get it back.
Where does all this leave Mr. Trump? The short answer is: in hot water. The longer answer is: He is confronting yet again the federal law enforcement and intelligence communities for which he has rightly expressed such public disdain. He had valid points of expression during the Russia investigation. He has little ground upon which to stand today.
I have often argued that many of these statutes that the feds have enacted to protect themselves are morally unjust and not grounded in the Constitution. One of my intellectual heroes, the great Murray Rothbard, taught that the government protects itself far more aggressively than it protects our natural rights.
In a monumental irony, both Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks journalist who exposed American war crimes during the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, and Edward Snowden, the former National Security Agency employee who exposed criminal mass government surveillance upon the American public, stand charged with the very same crimes that are likely to be brought against Mr. Trump. On both Mr. Assange and Mr. Snowden, Mr. Trump argued that they should be executed. Fortunately for all three, these statutes do not provide for capital punishment.
Mr. Rothbard warned that the feds aggressively protect themselves. Yet, both Mr. Assange and Mr. Snowden are heroic defenders of liberty with valid moral and legal defenses. Mr. Assange is protected by the Pentagon Papers case, which insulates the media from criminal or civil liability for revealing stolen matters of interest to the public, so long as the revealer is not the thief. Mr. Snowden is protected by the Constitution, which expressly prohibits the warrantless surveillance he revealed, which was the most massive peacetime abuse of government power.
What will Mr. Trump say in his defense to taking national defense information? I cannot think of a legally viable one.
• Andrew P. Napolitano is a former professor of law and judge of the Superior Court of New Jersey who has published nine books on the U.S. Constitution.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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09-11-2022, 08:46 AM
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#94
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
When you lose Judge Napolitano…..
It gives me no joy to write this piece.
Even a cursory review of the redacted version of the affidavit submitted in support of the government’s application for a search warrant at the home of former President Donald Trump reveals that he will soon be indicted by a federal grand jury for three crimes: Removing and concealing national defense information (NDI), giving NDI to those not legally entitled to possess it, and obstruction of justice by failing to return NDI to those who are legally entitled to retrieve it.
When he learned from a phone call that 30 FBI agents were at the front door of his Florida residence with a search warrant and he decided to reveal this publicly, Mr. Trump assumed that the agents were looking for classified top-secret materials that they’d allege he criminally possessed. His assumptions were apparently based on his gut instinct and not on a sophisticated analysis of the law. Hence, his public boast that he declassified all the formerly classified documents he took with him.
Unbeknownst to him, the feds had anticipated such a defense and are not preparing to indict him for possessing classified materials, even though he did possess hundreds of voluntarily surrendered materials marked “top secret.” It is irrelevant if the documents were declassified, as the feds will charge crimes that do not require proof of classification. They told the federal judge who signed the search warrant that Mr. Trump still had NDI in his home. It appears they were correct.
Under the law, it doesn’t matter if the documents on which NDI is contained are classified or not, as it is simply and always criminal to have NDI in a non-federal facility, to have those without security clearances move it from one place to another, and to keep it from the feds when they are seeking it. Stated differently, the absence of classification — for whatever reason — is not a defense to the charges that are likely to be filed against Mr. Trump.
Yet, misreading and underestimating the feds, Mr. Trump actually did them a favor. One of the elements that they must prove for any of the three crimes is that Mr. Trump knew that he had the documents. The favor he did was admit to that when he boasted that they were no longer classified. He committed a mortal sin in the criminal defense world by denying something for which he had not been accused.
The second element that the feds must prove is that the documents actually do contain national defense information. And the third element they must prove is that Mr. Trump put these documents into the hands of those not authorized to hold them and stored them in a non-federally secured place. Intelligence community experts have already examined the documents taken from Mr. Trump’s home and are prepared to tell a jury that they contain the names of foreign agents secretly working for the U.S. This is the crown jewel of government secrets. Moreover, Mr. Trump’s Florida home is not a secure federal facility designated for the deposit of NDI.
The newest aspect of the case against Mr. Trump that we learned from the redacted affidavit is the obstruction allegation. This is not the obstruction that Robert Mueller claimed he found Mr. Trump committed during the Russia investigation. This is a newer obstruction statute, signed by President George W. Bush in 2002, that places far fewer burdens on the feds to prove. The older statute is the one Mr. Mueller alleged. It characterizes any material interference with a judicial function as criminal. Thus, one who lies to a grand jury or prevents a witness from testifying commits this variant of obstruction.
But the Bush-era statute, the one the feds contemplate charging Mr. Trump with having violated, makes it a crime of obstruction by failing to return government property or by sending the FBI on a wild goose chase looking for something that belongs to the government and that you know that you have. This statute does not require the preexistence of a judicial proceeding. It only requires that the defendant has the government’s property, knows that he has it and baselessly resists efforts by the government to get it back.
Where does all this leave Mr. Trump? The short answer is: in hot water. The longer answer is: He is confronting yet again the federal law enforcement and intelligence communities for which he has rightly expressed such public disdain. He had valid points of expression during the Russia investigation. He has little ground upon which to stand today.
I have often argued that many of these statutes that the feds have enacted to protect themselves are morally unjust and not grounded in the Constitution. One of my intellectual heroes, the great Murray Rothbard, taught that the government protects itself far more aggressively than it protects our natural rights.
In a monumental irony, both Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks journalist who exposed American war crimes during the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, and Edward Snowden, the former National Security Agency employee who exposed criminal mass government surveillance upon the American public, stand charged with the very same crimes that are likely to be brought against Mr. Trump. On both Mr. Assange and Mr. Snowden, Mr. Trump argued that they should be executed. Fortunately for all three, these statutes do not provide for capital punishment.
Mr. Rothbard warned that the feds aggressively protect themselves. Yet, both Mr. Assange and Mr. Snowden are heroic defenders of liberty with valid moral and legal defenses. Mr. Assange is protected by the Pentagon Papers case, which insulates the media from criminal or civil liability for revealing stolen matters of interest to the public, so long as the revealer is not the thief. Mr. Snowden is protected by the Constitution, which expressly prohibits the warrantless surveillance he revealed, which was the most massive peacetime abuse of government power.
What will Mr. Trump say in his defense to taking national defense information? I cannot think of a legally viable one.
• Andrew P. Napolitano is a former professor of law and judge of the Superior Court of New Jersey who has published nine books on the U.S. Constitution.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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No republicans or conservatives will read this . Or even consider the source
They only believe Rudy and Alan Dershowitz or their latest hero #^&#^&#^&#^& Morris no other legal views are required
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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09-11-2022, 07:34 PM
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#95
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Today marks the 21 year anniversary of Donald Trump boasting on tape that he now has the tallest building in lower Manhattan.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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09-12-2022, 03:44 AM
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#96
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,197
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Seems MAGA meaning has changed again
to “making attorneys get attorneys.”  |
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09-12-2022, 07:01 AM
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#97
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Libtardia
Posts: 21,591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Today marks the 21 year anniversary of Donald Trump boasting on tape that he now has the tallest building in lower Manhattan.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Which was a lie of course.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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09-12-2022, 11:40 AM
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#98
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Today marks the 21 year anniversary of Donald Trump boasting on tape that he now has the tallest building in lower Manhattan.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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As if anyone need a reminder what a vile person he is. |
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09-13-2022, 06:20 AM
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#99
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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One thing is now abundantly clear: Trump is the target of multiple DOJ investigations.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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09-19-2022, 11:10 PM
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#100
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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The Special Master has asked Trump's team for declarations re: *any actions* he's taken to declassify material that was recovered from MAL. Trump's team stated in a filing tonight that it is *resisting* that request because it could expose Trump to criminal liability. LMFAO
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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09-20-2022, 08:03 AM
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#101
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Trump wanted a Special Master. Thanks to corrupt Judge Cannon, he got it. Trump’s team suggested Dearie. They got him. Now Dearie is asking Trump to back up his claims. By end of week Scott, Trump & GOP will attack Dearie and claim it’s all rigged. Media will parrot the talking points. Jim will find a whatabout……
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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09-20-2022, 08:17 AM
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#102
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Thanks to corrupt Judge Cannon,
By end of week Scott, Trump & GOP will attack Dearie and claim it’s all rigged. Media will parrot the talking points. Jim will find a whatabout……
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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you are an idiot |
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09-20-2022, 12:12 PM
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#103
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
you are an idiot
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Well, Troll you’re a …….troll
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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09-21-2022, 03:46 AM
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#104
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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it's devastating to be called a troll by an idiot 
hey, why are you no longer constantly updating us and gloating over all of the polling showing democrats winning in November? |
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09-21-2022, 07:03 AM
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#105
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
it's devastating to be called a troll by an idiot
hey, why are you no longer constantly updating us and gloating over all of the polling showing democrats winning in November? |
I wouldn't call you a troll. I would call you a snarky troll. |
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09-21-2022, 07:12 AM
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#106
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
I wouldn't call you a troll. I would call you a snarky troll.
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coming from a 4th grader...I guess that's fine  |
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09-21-2022, 07:25 AM
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#107
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
coming from a 4th grader...I guess that's fine |
In fifth now |
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09-21-2022, 08:57 AM
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#108
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
In fifth now
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I guess repeating 4th grade really paid off for you...congrats! |
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09-21-2022, 11:28 AM
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#109
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 28
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NY AG Lawsuit
New lawsuit by NY AG against Trump and his 3 kids for $250 mil could put him out of doing business in NY
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albie1guy
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09-21-2022, 12:09 PM
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#110
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albie1guy
New lawsuit by NY AG against Trump and his 3 kids for $250 mil could put him out of doing business in NY
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and she's twittering up a storm about it today...apparently she plans to try this case on twitter  |
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09-21-2022, 12:20 PM
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#111
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Ledge Runner Baits
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: I live in a house, but my soul is at sea.
Posts: 8,456
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Hard to keep track of how many investigations or law suits are coming his way, he is going to make Nixon look like a Boy Scout.
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09-21-2022, 08:05 PM
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#112
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,242
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Today was an especially bad day for Donald Trump. If you put on Fox News you could hear all about Hillary.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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09-22-2022, 03:24 AM
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#113
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Stripers
Hard to keep track of how many investigations or law suits are coming his way, he is going to make Nixon look like a Boy Scout.
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crazy ain't it?
trump makes nixon look good
brandon makes jimmy cater look good
actually, with brandon sending the fbi and justice after his political enemies
brandon makes nixon look good too..... |
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09-22-2022, 03:26 AM
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#114
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
If you put on Fox News you could hear all about Hillary.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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is she still claiming trump's victory over her was illegitimate? |
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09-22-2022, 03:55 AM
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#115
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
Today was an especially bad day for Donald Trump.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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it's fun when their bombshells blow up in their faces....
@KurtSchlichter
Let's get real - if they thought they had Trump they would have filed a criminal case, but they have to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. A civil suit is a preponderance of the evidence. They had no criminal case. They chose civil "fraud" to impress dumb people.
Bill Barr...the left's new darling for criticizing trump recently...
"Bill Barr calls New York's Trump lawsuit a 'political hit job': Former AG calls $250 million case a result of 'Trump Derangement Syndrome' - and dragging his children in his a 'gross overreach' Barr said she filed a civil suit because she 'doesn't have the evidence to make a criminal case' " |
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09-22-2022, 05:52 AM
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#116
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
it's fun when their bombshells blow up in their faces....
@KurtSchlichter
Let's get real - if they thought they had Trump they would have filed a criminal case, but they have to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. A civil suit is a preponderance of the evidence. They had no criminal case. They chose civil "fraud" to impress dumb people.
Bill Barr...the left's new darling for criticizing trump recently...
"Bill Barr calls New York's Trump lawsuit a 'political hit job': Former AG calls $250 million case a result of 'Trump Derangement Syndrome' - and dragging his children in his a 'gross overreach' Barr said she filed a civil suit because she 'doesn't have the evidence to make a criminal case' "
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Funny it was fine when they did the same thing to OJ
So Trumps special FYI there is more than one way to skin a cat under the law .. so they bear responsibility for thier deed
But it appears the faithful only respect the law when Trump uses it to obstruct and delay any from of accountability
Of course Scott we don’t read a comment about Trumps behaviors?
One would conclude you support his tax cheating.. but of course you’ll reply you never said that |
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09-22-2022, 05:55 AM
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#117
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
actually, with brandon sending the fbi and justice after his political enemies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
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Spoken like the true cult member we all know you are .. |
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09-22-2022, 06:48 AM
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#118
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
Funny it was fine when they did the same thing to OJ
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I think the families of those stabbed to death filed civil charges...
"three civil suits for wrongful death had been filed against O.J. Simpson: by Fred Goldman, father of Ron Goldman; by Ron's mother, Sharon Rufo, who had divorced Fred when Ron was six years old; and by the Brown family." |
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09-22-2022, 06:49 AM
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#119
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
[COLOR="SandyBrown"]
cult member
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keep repeating....maybe make a sign and stand at the corner of your street...with pete |
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09-22-2022, 07:28 AM
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#120
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,189
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Pete and Wayne on there way to a day of posting in the political forum
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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