The 2024 candidates speak

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Very well thought out and thought provoking post delivered respectfully.

I can’t wait for Wayne’s reinterpretation of it, where you get told you’re a Trump loving Nazi sympathizer.
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Very well thought out and thought provoking post delivered respectfully.

Unlike your response spoken like a child shocking ..

[The Dad Fisherman]

Just cutting to the chase, not like that’s not your usual response
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

wayne, say the average CT public school spends 20k per kid as you stated.

Let’s say i get $3k of that back, which i use to send my kid to another school. Since you said it’s my responsibility ( not the teachers’) to educate my kid.

My kid is better off.

The public school is also better off, because they can keep the other $17,000 and use it on the smaller number of remaining kids. Fewer students,,more
money to spend per kid, smaller class sizes in the public schools. so those kids are also better off.

Win-win.

Youre opposed to the idea that i can use my own tax money to educate my own kids. Yet you are ok with the idea that you confiscate more of other peoples money to help pay for your kids student loans.

Funny, you said it’s the parents responsibility to educate their own children, yet you support the idea of forcing everyone else to help your family repay student loans that you chose to take on. If you believe what you said, that educating your kids is your responsibility, how can you be ok with asking everyone else to repay your kids student loans?

that’s called “wanting to have it both ways.”

Jim. Where do you get 3k amount from. ? I pay around 4K a year

So you are looking for 100% of your taxes back?. That’s been my I point it’s a fantasy don’t your kids already go to Catholic school.

funny conservatives have no issue with billlions of ppp loan forgiveness. With zero oversight. But upset over some student loan forgiveness . Because conservatives think only Democratic’s have students loans. You want a list of Republican law makes who took millions in PPP loans but voted against it and are against student loan forgiveness
or when conservatives Republicans try to block early voting in GA ..it’s always outrage politics from the right

U.S. Rep. Ralph Norman, R-S.C., whose businesses had their loans forgiven, said it "takes a special kind of idiocy to equate (student debt forgiveness) to the PPP.

No it takes 1oz of honesty which clearly he doesn’t have nor do the

GOP Reps Who Voted Against $2,000 Checks Received Millions in COVID Bailout Funds


Jim the scam is National with Republicans

Arizona Republican lawmakers want you to pay private school tuitions for wealthy families

Arizona voters by an overwhelming margin rejected a Republican plan to allow all of Arizona’s 1 million-plus public school students to get vouchers to attend private and parochial schools.

And guess what the lawmakers disregard the will of the people 1 million voters lose to 31 lawmakers

This is part of the Arizona GOP’s ongoing irrational war on public education. A bizarre Robin Hood-in-reverse attack on our schools:

Robbing from the poor to give to the rich. And it’s GOP policy nation wide

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Jim. Where do you get 3k amount from. ? I pay around 4K a year

So you are looking for 100% of your taxes back?. That’s been my I point it’s a fantasy don’t your kids already go to Catholic school.

funny conservatives have no issue with billlions of ppp loan forgiveness. With zero oversight. But upset over some student loan forgiveness . Because conservatives think only Democratic’s have students loans. You want a list of Republican law makes who took millions in PPP loans but voted against it and are against student loan forgiveness
or when conservatives Republicans try to block early voting in GA ..it’s always outrage politics from the right

U.S. Rep. Ralph Norman, R-S.C., whose businesses had their loans forgiven, said it "takes a special kind of idiocy to equate (student debt forgiveness) to the PPP.

No it takes 1oz of honesty which clearly he doesn’t have nor do the

GOP Reps Who Voted Against $2,000 Checks Received Millions in COVID Bailout Funds


Jim the scam is National with Republicans

Arizona Republican lawmakers want you to pay private school tuitions for wealthy families

Arizona voters by an overwhelming margin rejected a Republican plan to allow all of Arizona’s 1 million-plus public school students to get vouchers to attend private and parochial schools.

And guess what the lawmakers disregard the will of the people 1 million voters lose to 31 lawmakers

This is part of the Arizona GOP’s ongoing irrational war on public education. A bizarre Robin Hood-in-reverse attack on our schools:

Robbing from the poor to give to the rich. And it’s GOP policy nation wide

i made up the 3k amount. my position on school
choice is parents should be able to get a portion of their own taxes back to spend as they see fit on their kids education .

[Jim in CT]

„so you are looking for 100% of your taxes back”?

No. I proposed $3k. that’s a small percentage

How much if my money are you entitled to, in order to pay off student loans your family chose to take on?

How much of my money are you entitled to? and how much are my kids entitled to?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Jim. Where do you get 3k amount from. ? I pay around 4K a year

So you are looking for 100% of your taxes back?. That’s been my I point it’s a fantasy don’t your kids already go to Catholic school.

funny conservatives have no issue with billlions of ppp loan forgiveness. With zero oversight. But upset over some student loan forgiveness . Because conservatives think only Democratic’s have students loans. You want a list of Republican law makes who took millions in PPP loans but voted against it and are against student loan forgiveness
or when conservatives Republicans try to block early voting in GA ..it’s always outrage politics from the right

U.S. Rep. Ralph Norman, R-S.C., whose businesses had their loans forgiven, said it "takes a special kind of idiocy to equate (student debt forgiveness) to the PPP.

No it takes 1oz of honesty which clearly he doesn’t have nor do the

GOP Reps Who Voted Against $2,000 Checks Received Millions in COVID Bailout Funds


Jim the scam is National with Republicans

Arizona Republican lawmakers want you to pay private school tuitions for wealthy families

Arizona voters by an overwhelming margin rejected a Republican plan to allow all of Arizona’s 1 million-plus public school students to get vouchers to attend private and parochial schools.

And guess what the lawmakers disregard the will of the people 1 million voters lose to 31 lawmakers

This is part of the Arizona GOP’s ongoing irrational war on public education. A bizarre Robin Hood-in-reverse attack on our schools:

Robbing from the poor to give to the rich. And it’s GOP policy nation wide

and you went to PPP loan forgivenesses. They weren’t “loans.”. right from the start, the agreement was that the money did not need to be repaid if the employers met certain conditions. That is, by definition, not a loan. A loan is what you agreed to, when you took out student loans, which you now hope everyone else will pay back. Gimme, gimme, gimme.

That’s far different from your student loans, which you promised to pay back but now are reaching into our pockets because that’s easier for you. but when i ask for a portion of my taxes back to arrange for the education of my kids ( which you said was my responsibility) you’re opposed to it.

You’re doing exactly, precisely what TDF said you’d do.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

„so you are looking for 100% of your taxes back”?

No. I proposed $3k. that’s a small percentage

How much if my money are you entitled to, in order to pay off student loans your family chose to take on?

How much of my money are you entitled to? and how much are my kids entitled to?

How about looking at the percentage that the school department gets in the annual budget, then give that same percentage back to the tax payers that want to send their kids to alternative schooling, based on their taxes paid.

Could be a starting point for discussion.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

How about looking at the percentage that the school department gets in the annual budget, then give that same percentage back to the tax payers that want to send their kids to alternative schooling, based on their taxes paid.

Could be a starting point for discussion.
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it’s a perfectly logical starting point. But it will never take place in blue states, because the democrats are beholden to the unions.

i thought liberals were “pro choice.”. i’m almost certain I’ve heard that somewhere.

[Got Stripers]

Peg's been paying taxes for years, without any children, it's a unfair system for those that are NOT benefitting from the public school system.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Peg's been paying taxes for years, without any children, it's a unfair system for those that are NOT benefitting from the public school system.

i disagree. if we never had kids i’d still support paying taxes to help fund good public schools. We all have a vested interest in having good public schools, that helps all of us. But if i feel that another school is better for my kids, a great argument can be made that everyone is better off if i can use a small portion of my own money to fund it. there isn’t a great argument against it that i’ve heard.

[Pete F.]

The unheard argument

The Republican Plan To Devastate Public Education in America
Conservatives talk about “school choice.” What they really want, though, will result in the end of public education for the poor, and disfavored minorities like LGBT people.

https://newrepublic.com/article/1673...cation-america
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The unheard argument

The Republican Plan To Devastate Public Education in America
Conservatives talk about “school choice.” What they really want, though, will result in the end of public education for the poor, and disfavored minorities like LGBT people.

https://newrepublic.com/article/1673...cation-america
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can you name one place that currently has school
choice, where public education has ended for the poor?

If you think a tiny sliver of competition will
mean the end of public education, you must have a crappy view of public education.

a little competition will incentivize public educaton to improve.

If every private sector company can survive in a competitive landscaoe, eh do you assume public schools cannot?

What a stupid, devoid of logic, argument.

PS you’re not really pro choice then, are you?

[Jim in CT]

Pete is afraid that school choice will ruin public education for poor people.

I can make a compelling argument that lack of school choice has already ruined it. In Baltimore, among 13 public high schools, recently there were zero students meeting accepted grade proficiency in math.

Zero students hitting math proficiency, at 13 high schools.

Pete would force kids to stay in these failing sh-tholes. I say they’d deserve much better, and the problem won’t be fixed by giving raises and more perks to the teachers there.

https://foxbaltimore.com/amp/news/pr...icient-in-math

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Pete is afraid that school choice will ruin public education for poor people.

I can make a compelling argument that lack of school choice has already ruined it. In Baltimore, among 13 public high schools, recently there were zero students meeting accepted grade proficiency in math.

Zero students hitting math proficiency, at 13 high schools.

Pete would force kids to stay in these failing sh-tholes. I say they’d deserve much better, and the problem won’t be fixed by giving raises and more perks to the teachers there.

https://foxbaltimore.com/amp/news/pr...icient-in-math

Jim and his conservatives friends love using inner cities as their examples from gun violence to education to overall crime

It’s all they have ever done . There is example after example across the country what school choices means for Conservatives. Things called data and statistics. But their dismissed as fake news

Claiming it’s to help the underserved is just another lie told with a straight Face in public ..


Right on the Texas Republicans website

Republican Party of Texas legislative priority

The Problem
Parents are not able to give their children the educational opportunities they desire.
Parents don’t have ownership over their tax dollars being used for educational funding.
Some solutions lead to greater problems since they require tax money to be given to the government from some and then distributed to others — an unfair system that creates unwanted government strings.
The Solution
Distribute educational funds in a manner that they follow the student to any school, whether public, private, charter, or home school through means of tax exemptions and/or credits.

Then you get a list of what to say on social media’s

Sample Tweets:

I stand for #schoolchoice. Let my money follow my student.
I’m a parent who’s asking for my tax dollars to follow my child to the school I choose. #schoolchoice
Texas parents have a right to choose the best education for their children. Let my money follow my student. #schoolchoice

Letter to the Editor:

Here’s a sample letter to the editor that you can customize, personalize, and submit to your local newspaper. An ideal time is when this subject comes up in the news. Be sure to check and follow your paper’s guidelines for length and submission.


Yet this same party is banning books attacking trans youth and their families claiming teachers are indoctrination sites for children. There trying to defund a system to benefit their small base who wants tax money to send their kids to religious schools


It’s all here ! Republican candidates are platforming nationwide calls for “parents’ rights” and school choice. They want curriculum posted online and for parents to be able to opt out of certain lessons on sexual orientation and gender identity. Many oppose lessons they feel are too closely tied to critical race theory, an academic framework that looks at the roles of race and racism in U.S. history, law and institutions. They also want taxpayer dollars to flow to private and religious schools.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

How about looking at the percentage that the school department gets in the annual budget, then give that same percentage back to the tax payers that want to send their kids to alternative schooling, based on their taxes paid.

Could be a starting point for discussion.
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How about looking at the parents income and how many children they have in the system. And base any refund based on that .. also see if the child ever attended public school to start with.

[wdmso]

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017...chool-vouchers


The biggest headline from the program's growth is this: Today, more than half of all voucher students in the state have no record of attending a public school.

Good read

This I found hypocritical In 2011 voucher law prohibited the state from regulating "curriculum content, religious instruction or activities, classroom teaching, teacher and staff hiring requirements, and other activities carried out by the eligible school."

But in public schools they want to pass a bill One of the main features of the bill is that it would prohibit eight different concepts focused on sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, national origin, or political affiliation

[wdmso]

But these private schools who take public money can still pick and choose their students.. here’s an example

In its online admissions packet, Lighthouse Christian Academy in Bloomington lays out its expectations of students. It lists "behaviors prohibited in the Bible" to include "homosexual or bisexual activity or any form of sexual immorality" and "practicing alternate gender identity or any other identity or behavior that violates God's ordained distinctions between the two sexes, male and female."

It’s not and never been about helping underserved children

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

.


Yet this same party is banning books attacking trans youth and their families claiming teachers are indoctrination sites for children. There trying to defund a system to benefit their small base who wants tax money to send their kids to religious schools


It’s all here ! Republican candidates are platforming nationwide calls for “parents’ rights” and school choice. They want curriculum posted online and for parents to be able to opt out of certain lessons on sexual orientation and gender identity. Many oppose lessons they feel are too closely tied to critical race theory, an academic framework that looks at the roles of race and racism in U.S. history, law and institutions. They also want taxpayer dollars to flow to private and religious schools.

"Yet this same party is banning books"

Not sure what book appropriateness has to do with school choice, but whatever. Are you saying liberals don't use censure, don't ban books they don't like (like To Kill A Mockingbird, Huckleberry Finn), don't take down statues that are offensive to them, etc? As always, it's OK when liberals do it.

"attacking trans youth"

Sorry. Telling biological boys that they can't watch girls undress during school, isn't attacking anybody. It's protecting everybody. It takes a pretty warped mind to call that attacking anybody.

"They want curriculum posted online"

The horror! Imagine that if I'm paying big money for something that my kids are exposed to, that I want to see what it is? The nerve of some people!

Wayne, you never, not once, were curious about what your kids were being taught? You never bothered to ask about any details? Never?

You don't get it. The teachers work for the parents. Not the other way around. Teachers are public servants. They exist to serve the public.

In another post here, you said it's the responsibility of the parents to educate their children. Fine. How can parents educate their kids, without having some knowledge of what the kids are being taught, without having some input.

You seriously said that it's the parents responsibility to educate their kids, but parents should shut up about what happens in school. That doesn't sound stupid to you?

You'll say ANYTHING to serve liberalism.

You also ignored my obvious question...if it's YOUR responsibility to educate your kids (which you said it was), what possible right do you have to ask others to pay for your kids' student loans?

You want my money, but you want me to shut up about how it's spent.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

But these private schools who take public money can still pick and choose their students.. here’s an example

In its online admissions packet, Lighthouse Christian Academy in Bloomington lays out its expectations of students. It lists "behaviors prohibited in the Bible" to include "homosexual or bisexual activity or any form of sexual immorality" and "practicing alternate gender identity or any other identity or behavior that violates God's ordained distinctions between the two sexes, male and female."

It’s not and never been about helping underserved children

You picked one extreme school. My sons catholic high school has a few gay and trans students, they are welcome to attend the school.

There are many, many private schools with no religious affiliation.

If you're opposed to private schools taking public money, then explain why you're OK with using public money to pay off your student loans. I'll wait.

You cannot win this one...you boxed yourself into a corner from which there's no escape, when you supported the idea of student loan forgiveness, and when you said it's the parent's responsibility to educate our children.

So you're entitled to public money to educate your kids at the college you choose to send them to, but poor people in urban areas are not.

I'd just love to hear you justify that.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by wdmso

How about looking at the parents income and how many children they have in the system.

Maybe that is something that can be discussed

Originally Posted by wdmso

And base any refund based on that ..

It's not really a refund, it's more of a redirecting of funds for education

Originally Posted by wdmso

also see if the child ever attended public school to start with.

What does that have to do with anything, if a parent decides what he wants his child's education needs to be from kindergarten on up, they are allowed

[wdmso]

Trump defends meeting with known white supremacist, says he ‘knew nothing’ about him

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Maybe that is something that can be discussed



It's not really a refund, it's more of a redirecting of funds for education



What does that have to do with anything, if a parent decides what he wants his child's education needs to be from kindergarten on up, they are allowed

Hard to claim they systems broken if you never used the system so claiming is broken . Then asking for public money to support religious schooling which is actually the push by the right for school choice

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Hard to claim they systems broken if you never used the system so claiming is broken . T

Please. Anyone can look at the data and the results.

Many poor people stuck in these school systems are the ones begging for school choice. You make it sound like its all rich white people in the suburbs whose kids are already in private schools.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Hard to claim they systems broken if you never used the system so claiming is broken . Then asking for public money to support religious schooling which is actually the push by the right for school choice

Maybe I just like another school better, doesn't have to be based on me thinking the system is broken, and if someone wants to send their kid to a catholic school, so be it.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Maybe I just like another school better, doesn't have to be based on me thinking the system is broken, and if someone wants to send their kid to a catholic school, so be it.

Religious schools No government money.. it’s easy. republicans trying to ignore the separation of church and state . Hell they don’t even want people to vote. Or have their votes counted

Officials in a rural, Republican-controlled county in Arizona have voted to delay certifying the results of this month's midterm elections and miss the state's legal deadline of Monday, despite finding no legitimate problems with the local counts.

The examples of conservatives revisionist history . Are crazy it’s hard to take them seriously
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Please. Anyone can look at the data and the results.

Many poor people stuck in these school systems are the ones begging for school choice. You make it sound like its all rich white people in the suburbs whose kids are already in private schools.

Jim I linked an article again you just don’t like the answers
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Jim I linked an article again you just don’t like the answers
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and i posted an article with facts not just partisan nonsense

You said it’s hard to criticize something unless you’ve been in it. but that doesn’t stop you from criticizing everything every republican has ever said or done, even if you’ve never been inside

You say educating kids is a parents responsibility, yet you won’t explain why you’re on with taking other peoples hard earned money to pay off your kids student loans, which obviously you chose to take on and are obviously your responsibility.

you demy me the right to use my own tax dollars to educate my kids. and at the same time, you have the right to my tax dollars to educate your kids. So everything is ok, as long as the money is flowing into your wallet. Make that wrong. That’s your only principle here.

Everything is ok when you do it. everything. But no one else can do those same things. amd you can’t offer a single syllable to explain.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Religious schools No government money.. it’s easy. republicans trying to ignore the separation of church and state.
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So I take it then that there should be no federal grant money or student loan forgiveness for students who attended BYU, Wake Forest, Boston College, Notre Dame or any other private religious schools?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017...chool-vouchers


The biggest headline from the program's growth is this: Today, more than half of all voucher students in the state have no record of attending a public school.

Good read

This I found hypocritical In 2011 voucher law prohibited the state from regulating "curriculum content, religious instruction or activities, classroom teaching, teacher and staff hiring requirements, and other activities carried out by the eligible school."

But in public schools they want to pass a bill One of the main features of the bill is that it would prohibit eight different concepts focused on sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, national origin, or political affiliation

Wayne, if you don't like those things, you don't have to send your kids to a school that advocates for those things. But where would you get the right, to deny parents the right o use their tax dollars to send kids to a different school, if the parent feels that private school is a different fit?

If public schools could get their act together, there wouldn't be large numbers of families who want to flee the public schools.

So you say hat parents have no right to see what's taught in public school, no right to comment on what's taught, have no right to use their tax dollars to pay for a school that's a better fit for their child, but again, YOU have the right to everyone elses money to help pay for the cost of educating your kids. You have that right.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Wayne, if you don't like those things, you don't have to send your kids to a school that advocates for those things. But where would you get the right, to deny parents the right o use their tax dollars to send kids to a different school, if the parent feels that private school is a different fit?

If public schools could get their act together, there wouldn't be large numbers of families who want to flee the public schools.

So you say hat parents have no right to see what's taught in public school, no right to comment on what's taught, have no right to use their tax dollars to pay for a school that's a better fit for their child, but again, YOU have the right to everyone elses money to help pay for the cost of educating your kids. You have that right.

So you say hat parents have no right to see what's taught in public school, no right to comment on what's taught, have no right to use their tax dollars

No Jim that you and Republicans are just lying thru your teeth

Yet you and conservatives crazy’s think parents are suddenly smarter the the people teaching them. That’s funny

And what kids get taught is a secret. ? And school board and parent teacher conferences don’t exist? or never existed to address questions?

That takes a special kind of arrogance…. And dishonesty which the GOP has in abundance to spread such BS . But their base eats it up..
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