Lack of capable "tradesmen"

[Rmarsh]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I don’t mean to get political here but it appears to me that the politicians that make the funding decisions for schools are more interested in what bathroom a kid should be using, what books to ban (that promote individual thought and free thinking) and inserting their religious beliefs as opposed to actually giving todays children a solid educational foundation. The reason for all of this is to keep the ruling class in power and cripple the working class and to distract us from the real issues of this country by divisive social issues.
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Ill let the educators handle it..... but its pathetic.
I waited for the college age cashier to figure my change for a ten dollar bill the other day and i was embarrassed for her.

[trevier]

this is a great thread. I love the ones about terrible customers also. Years ago while building a house for customers, who later turned out to be total #^&#^&#^&#^&s. They wanted a security sensor on the door going over the garage storage area. Now the only way into that garage was from the second door or putting a ladder up against the house and breaking the window to get in. Now we were building in a nice part of town and they had a cop who lived across the street from the build. I told my security guy to put it in for them. Now it get's even better. They wanted a sensor to the the pull down attic stair going into the attic, kid you not. I just rolled my eyes and walked away. Worst customers we ever had in building. Got all of there cabinets from ikea and wanted us to put them together. Now this was before ikea was up our way. Needless to say we didn't do it. I could go on but I think everyone gets the jist of this one.

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I don’t mean to get political here but it appears to me that the politicians that make the funding decisions for schools are more interested in what bathroom a kid should be using, what books to ban (that promote individual thought and free thinking) and inserting their religious beliefs as opposed to actually giving todays children a solid educational foundation. The reason for all of this is to keep the ruling class in power and cripple the working class and to distract us from the real issues of this country by divisive social issues.
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We need to return to teaching how to think as opposed to what to think....

[Rmarsh]

Originally Posted by trevier

this is a great thread. I love the ones about terrible customers also. Years ago while building a house for customers, who later turned out to be total #^&#^&#^&#^&s. They wanted a security sensor on the door going over the garage storage area. Now the only way into that garage was from the second door or putting a ladder up against the house and breaking the window to get in. Now we were building in a nice part of town and they had a cop who lived across the street from the build. I told my security guy to put it in for them. Now it get's even better. They wanted a sensor to the the pull down attic stair going into the attic, kid you not. I just rolled my eyes and walked away. Worst customers we ever had in building. Got all of there cabinets from ikea and wanted us to put them together. Now this was before ikea was up our way. Needless to say we didn't do it. I could go on but I think everyone gets the jist of this one.

I have worked for a lot of nice people too.....not as interesting as the bad ones. One was a doctors wife who gave us a gift for our newborn son....another gave nice gift card to a fancy restaurant...another guy a lawyer gave me a thank you card and a nice book on classic cape cod homes........best one was a guy who owned a nice cottage on the vineyard and told me to take the place for a week.....we had a great time.

[Rmarsh]

Getting deeper into construction math beyond reading a ruler.
Over time I've learned the necessity of knowing the decimal equivalents of the inch.....and that every fraction is an expression of division.....1 divided by 32 equals .03125

The way I remember is that each 32nd is equal to .03 of an inch and so each 16th is .06. and so on. Some of these are rounded off.

1/32 = .03
1/16 = .06
3/32 = .09
1/8 = .125
Not often used is the decimal equivalents of one foot... but it works the same way.
Calculators are a useful tool but you have to understand the how and why of formulas.
Metric system might be less complicated......but I am more comfortable with our past and present system.
Math dont lie!

[Rmarsh]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

We need to return to teaching how to think as opposed to what to think....

I agree Ross.
Most of my learning resulted from constant repetition... and Im referring to the three R's, not social studies.

Reading....Righting? and Rithmatic? who came up with that?

[Got Stripers]

And teach contractors that communication is a requirement of the job. We came to the cottage build out in the final stages one day and find they have placed the AC condensing unit so close to the outside shower rough out, that having the door where we wanted it to the future enclosure would be impossible. Had they asked we would have let them know two reasons that spot was a no go, nosey neighbor and the need for parking. We had to get the contractor to promise it would be moved at his expense in order to release any further payments.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Rmarsh

Getting deeper into construction math beyond reading a ruler.

I remodeled a lot of my last house myself and without geometry and some algebra I couldn’t have gotten it done. I even made custom cabinets in my bathroom but you’d laugh at my design. They were solid though.

[piemma]

Indeed you did and a fine job it was! I was at the old house from when you bought it!

[Rmarsh]

You know the saying....and ive had a few of them.

[Rmarsh]

Built a garage and family room once for a doctor that was friends with another doctor whose home i had worked on ...and he was also my sons pediatrician. Everything went fine.... he was happy for the job I did and paid me in full.......just complained a little about some blades of grass on his lawn that got damaged.
Fast forward a couple of years and he calls me about a getting a new kitchen addition bump-out which involved removing 14' of exterior bearing wall... with a flush in ceiling steel beam installed. He said he would be gone for exactly four weeks and it had to be all done... including new cabinets counters flooring etc. We came to an agreement on price and a contract was written up and signed...with my promised completion date.

When they returned the job was all done except for some debris removal.

I asked him what he wanted me to do with the nine foot pella slider we had removed for the bumpout.....he asked if i wanted it and i said no....no place to use or store it ......so he told me to dispose of it and remove it from his property.

Next day as my brother and i loaded the big frame and door panels onto the back of my utility truck...to take it to the landfill just down the road...a neighbor watched us then came over and asked what i was going to do with it....i told him.... and he offered me 100 bucks to untie it and carry it to his backyard.
When I got my final payment it was short by $100 dollars..... the good doctor said that "he didnt know i was holding a yard sale"......(his neighbor had needled him about getting a nice door so cheap....and I didnt know they didnt get along) and that he would take the hundred out of what he owed me on the final payment.

Good grief!

[trevier]

Originally Posted by Rmarsh

Built a garage and family room once for a doctor that was friends with another doctor whose home i had worked on ...and he was also my sons pediatrician. Everything went fine.... he was happy for the job I did and paid me in full.......just complained a little about some blades of grass on his lawn that got damaged.
Fast forward a couple of years and he calls me about a getting a new kitchen addition bump-out which involved removing 14' of exterior bearing wall... with a flush in ceiling steel beam installed. He said he would be gone for exactly four weeks and it had to be all done... including new cabinets counters flooring etc. We came to an agreement on price and a contract was written up and signed...with my promised completion date.

When they returned the job was all done except for some debris removal.

I asked him what he wanted me to do with the nine foot pella slider we had removed for the bumpout.....he asked if i wanted it and i said no....no place to use or store it ......so he told me to dispose of it and remove it from his property.

Next day as my brother and i loaded the big frame and door panels onto the back of my utility truck...to take it to the landfill just down the road...a neighbor watched us then came over and asked what i was going to do with it....i told him.... and he offered me 100 bucks to untie it and carry it to his backyard.
When I got my final payment it was short by $100 dollars..... the good doctor said that "he didnt know i was holding a yard sale"......(his neighbor had needled him about getting a nice door so cheap....and I didnt know they didnt get along) and that he would take the hundred out of what he owed me on the final payment.

Good grief!

unbelievable,

[Rmarsh]

Originally Posted by trevier

unbelievable,

Yes.....he was a nice guy.....and the job i did was excellent.....but that was the one thing I did that stuck in his craw.

I have to tell you though......a lot of people are very nice....right up until the job is complete and final payment is due.

[redlite]

The mantra by boss has adopted lately regarding estimates with people watching all these home improvement shows and having unrealistic cost expectations---
" this is what it costs for me to do the job and it costs $0 for me not to"
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[piemma]

Originally Posted by redlite

The mantra by boss has adopted lately regarding estimates with people watching all these home improvement shows and having unrealistic cost expectations---
" this is what it costs for me to do the job and it costs $0 for me not to"
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Love it. Most home owners have no idea....

[Rmarsh]

Originally Posted by redlite

The mantra by boss has adopted lately regarding estimates with people watching all these home improvement shows and having unrealistic cost expectations---
" this is what it costs for me to do the job and it costs $0 for me not to"
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Good for him...that's my approach with prices
I have told customers that if my price was negotiable I would have padded it sufficiently and lower it to my originally determined amount I needed. But I don't play those games. And when I'm the potential buyer I won't offer you less than your price...ill walk away if I don't want to pay it. Some people love negtiating....not me.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Rmarsh

Good for him...that's my approach with prices
I have told customers that if my price was negotiable I would have padded it sufficiently and lower it to my originally determined amount I needed. But I don't play those games. And when I'm the potential buyer I won't offer you less than your price...ill walk away if I don't want to pay it. Some people love negtiating....not me.

I had a well known local guy over to give me an estimate on a bathroom remodel. He simply replied 40k. I asked for something written with a rough breakdown of the costs, he gave me a piece of paper that said “remodel bathroom 40k.”

[Nebe]

i once received a $5,000 tip from a client who was floored by the job I did. There are wonderful people out there, but they are hard to find.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by spence

I had a well known local guy over to give me an estimate on a bathroom remodel. He simply replied 40k. I asked for something written with a rough breakdown of the costs, he gave me a piece of paper that said “remodel bathroom 40k.”

$40K?
Are you putting a 24K gold #^&#^&#^&#^&ter in?
We had ours redone after a plumbing leak, all but sheetrock, added a vent fan (there wasn't one) mid-range very nice but not highest end tile, countertop, full glass wall/tiled walk-in shower with the pebble floor/bench etc. and it was sub $20K....

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by spence

I had a well known local guy over to give me an estimate on a bathroom remodel. He simply replied 40k. I asked for something written with a rough breakdown of the costs, he gave me a piece of paper that said “remodel bathroom 40k.”

What he meant to say is I’m too busy and don’t need the work.

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

$40K?
Are you putting a 24K gold #^&#^&#^&#^&ter in?
We had ours redone after a plumbing leak, all but sheetrock, added a vent fan (there wasn't one) mid-range very nice but not highest end tile, countertop, full glass wall/tiled walk-in shower with the pebble floor/bench etc. and it was sub $20K....

I have a good idea of what is involved to do the job you are describing, as well as all the things you are not including.... If this was a permitted job, with a plumber and electrician, your number is light, or you did some of the demo and install yourself. 2013, sure I could see it. Not today....

[Rmarsh]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

What he meant to say is I’m too busy and don’t need the work.

you nailed it.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

I have a good idea of what is involved to do the job you are describing, as well as all the things you are not including.... If this was a permitted job, with a plumber and electrician, your number is light, or you did some of the demo and install yourself. 2013, sure I could see it. Not today....

Fully permitted. 2019/early 2020.
Total was 19 and change.

Use a well-known local contractor and had to wait an extra couple weeks to get the good tile guy. Otherwise project went fine.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

$40K?
Are you putting a 24K gold #^&#^&#^&#^&ter in?
We had ours redone after a plumbing leak, all but sheetrock, added a vent fan (there wasn't one) mid-range very nice but not highest end tile, countertop, full glass wall/tiled walk-in shower with the pebble floor/bench etc. and it was sub $20K....

That included a second story shed dormer, custom shower, rerouting plumbing etc…I ended up signing a contract with another builder for 33k but killed the project when things went south.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by spence

That included a second story shed dormer, custom shower, rerouting plumbing etc…I ended up signing a contract with another builder for 33k but killed the project when things went south.

That makes more sense… we didn’t alter the exterior and had the plumbing in place mostly.
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[Pete F.]

I used to have people ask how much a square foot for new construction.
I’d tell them it depends, how much was your car per wheel?
Most of them got it, of course that contractor’s clients cars ran over 25K a wheel. 😎
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[Rmarsh]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I used to have people ask how much a square foot for new construction.
I’d tell them it depends, how much was your car per wheel?
Most of them got it, of course that contractor’s clients cars ran over 25K a wheel. 😎
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Good point.
When I wanted to educate myself on construction estimating I bought a couple of books from RSMeans. For starters they break it down to four basic categories of construction, economy, average, custom, and luxury. The books were somewhat useful to me .....but I always fell back to stick by stick estimates to arrive at a number....then divided by square foot....every job was a different sq. ft. price. because of the variables. They have dozens of books on estimating...residential, remodelers guide, commercial etc.

They are not cheap....current issue in the picture is $398.

[Rmarsh]

Originally Posted by Nebe

i once received a $5,000 tip from a client who was floored by the job I did. There are wonderful people out there, but they are hard to find.

Wow thats great! You must have been elated!

Needle in a haystack. Sounds like they found you!

[Rmarsh]

This one is only $84 and would be worth it for a homeowner considering a remodeling project.
https://www.rsmeans.com/media/catalo...idth=&canvas=:

[Rmarsh]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

What he meant to say is I’m too busy and don’t need the work.

There are ways to let a customer know that you dont want to work for them....without coming right out and saying it.

Good builders use their instincts and get to pick and choose who they work for.