Menhaden Bill introduced

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by ThrowingTimber

Gotta love the I been fishing 3 yrs, and I read everyone of the dog killers books, I know everything guys... *insert laugh*

ive been serioulsly surfcasting since '92. I started fishing the bay off and on with my gramps since i wa 8. In the 80's me and the boys used to snag and drop pogies for bloofish in newport all the time. As for the dog killer reference, ive read a few Frank d's books. theyre pretty good.

Got any more snide remarks??? This is a discussion nothing more and i really dont see the need for you to call me selfish in one post and then say that i have zero experience on the water..

[choggieman]

Personally I feel this is a great chance to return things to the way they should be. More bunker means more food for bass- food that is rich in nutrients and fat needed for healthy fish.
Maybe the occurence of skin lesions and mal-nourished fish being greatly reduced will help offset the loss of cows caught on a live lined bunka.
We can protect the cows only so well- guys with other live baits, ie scup still kill plenty of big girls. So I feel if they are not eating bunker they are eating something else and just as likely to be caught.
At least the fish that feed on bunker will be healthier and fatter when we catch them. The trickle down effect from healthy bunker stocks will be felt through out the eco system.
I remember the mid to late 80s when the bunker were so thick you couldn't cast without snagging them. The blues with them were massive and healthy. The bass stocks were in the gutter, so we never caught many, but now give us good bass numbers with a superior supply of arguably the striped bass's most nutrious food and lets see what happens.

[macojoe]

ARK bait has been doing this for years!! They wiped out Mt Hope bay a long time ago!
This Bill is a good thing!!

[stripersnipr]

This thread is indicative on a small scale of the biggest problem we as recreational fisherman suffer in regards to protecting our small piece of the pie. The commercial industry presents a united front with concise goals and a strong clear effort. It seems we instead opt to engage in civil wars with no resolution ultimately leading to few positive results.

[ThrowingTimber]

Paul I think they count their drag by the metric ton. I dont think they count individual pogies like say 50, 000 per say.

I'm just going to ignore eben on this...... obvious signs of rectal cranium insertion.... basically he cant catch fish when there pogies around soooo.... advocate for the surfcaster... *insert laugh*

[piemma]

Originally Posted by ThrowingTimber

Paul I think they count their drag by the metric ton. I dont think they count individual pogies like say 50, 000 per say.

I'm just going to ignore eben on this...... obvious signs of rectal cranium insertion.... basically he cant catch fish when there pogies around soooo.... advocate for the surfcaster... *insert laugh*

Thanks Vic. My mistake, but eveyone gets my point.

[ThrowingTimber]

yeah those dudes clean up something fierce if they set their minds to it.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Thats along my points. Pogies grow fast, results should be quick (I think)
I remain unclear whether it is the NJ bill or whether the upswing is some kind of natural anomaly. I'm for it. I just don't know the coastwide impact yet. Thats all.. WTF! I'm a geologist anyways not a biologist!

[goosefish]

It is an eastern seaboard species. However the pogies that make it up this way tend to spawn up this way. Maybe the Bay has seen an increase in the numbers of diatoms the past couple of years. Increase the food supple, reduce the harvest, hope for a strong year class and what do you have---snag hooks, burned drags, bunker oil on the hands.

[DZ]

Wow! I guess it really is winter. Lots of pent up energy being vented. I hope everyone feels better. Anyway, seems I’m definitely in the minority here (as I thought I would be). But it’s not very often that I back a commercial fishing entity so I kind of expected disagreement. I try and think of both sides of an issue even if it is mostly beneficial to me, I always want to see if there are any “hidden consequences” that might not be desirable. If my opinion got your noggins to thinking - it worked.

So here is how I figure this will pan out: Comment on this bill will include those from all sides. Bait Shops, RISAA, Save the Bay, Arc Bait, and Commercial Fishermen. The wild card will be comments from representatives from the RI Division of Fish and Wildlife and maybe the commercial fishing industry groups. Division Biologists are routinely called on to give a scientific view of whether a bill has legitimate basis for concern. In other words, do RI fisheries biologists believe that Arc Baits take of Narragansett Bay menhaden is detrimental to the health of the bay, etc? I think this will be the key. Commercial fishing organizations may also weigh in as they normally back each other. Commercial fishermen don’t want to see a “precedent” setting action go against them. I’m sure the draggers will be watching closely as they’ve been the target of talks like this before. Normally I don’t think the legislature would pass a bill that would put someone out of business, especially in the hard hit commercial fishing industry, BUT in this case it is a Massachusetts company, not from RI, so maybe they would.

Another scenario will be the legislature telling the RIMFC to broker some sort of “agreement” with Arc Bait about placing certain areas off limits or placing a quota on their take from Narragansett Bay. It will also be interesting to see if the RIMFC takes up discussion of this bill at a future hearing – and will they have to endorse it?

What would happen if this bill passes? Not really sure on this one. Arc Bait may just fold but I don’t think that will happen, especially if large menhaden are making a comeback. They’ll probably just go to other areas where it is legal to take pogies.

DZ

[Slinger]

I hope all you guys who lined up to take free bait from the big red boat smiled pretty when they took your picture, your about to become stars at the state house, one of the lynchpins of Arks defense. See at least they were thinking ahead!
Slinger

[Krispy]

Ark Bait Co Inc - Detailed Company Profile

Year Started: 1978
State of Incorporation: N/A
URL: N/A
Location type: Single Location
Stock Symbol: N/A
Stock Exchange: N/A
Also Does Business As: N/A
NAICS: Sporting and Recreational Goods and Supplies Merchant Wholesalers; Sporting Goods Stores
Est. Annual Sales: $3,600,000
Est. Employees: 17
Est. Employees at Location: 2
Contact Name: Gerald Souza
Contact Title: President

[ThrowingTimber]

wow destroying a bay costs roughly 3.6 mil a year

[MakoMike]

Just two observations. 1) Ark bait will, probably, continue to take the same amount of pogies every year, they'll just change locations. So for the east coast biomass of menhaden there will be no change. 2) the lobstermen will fight this tooth and nail, since if it succeeds it will drive up the cost of bait. Lost of lobstermen out there and they have recently taken several hits, with pot limits, size increases and mandatory v-notching.

[ThrowingTimber]

1. they'll have to move, away from us, then away from someone else, eventually they'll have no place. Its a start, giving up isnt going to change anything.

2. it'll balance out for all the years they were at the herring runs taking every herring they could to use as lobster bait.

[MakoMike]

Vic,
They need go no further than the entrance to the bay. How do the pogies get up there, fly?

The problem is that the lobstermen have a lot of poltical clout and sympathy for the hits they've taken lately. If they oppose it'll be a rock road to get it passed.

[ThrowingTimber]

keep them out of anything possible mike.


sounds like you're on the other side of the fence on this one thats a shame..

[MakoMike]

Not really on the other side of the fence. I'm just wondering if we have the ability to win this fight and if its worth the political capital we will spend on it. Lots of more contentious things in play right now, like the coming salt water license. The coming crisis with scup and sea bass. And several other things that strike me as much more importent to the average RI angler.

[ThrowingTimber]

license cant pass.... that was tough...

scup and seabass are for comms and charters..

not really that big of an agenda for me personally (neither a comm or a charter)...... So scup and seabass limits go down.... it'd be all the same to me Doubt I'm the only person in the state that feels this way

hahaha you said scup and seabass were more important...

I'll have two of what you're havin'

[MakoMike]

Vic,
A license is coming, if not state, then federal, it was contained in the Magnesson-Stevens reauthorization that passed in December and was signed into law in January. Its a done deal, now we get to argue about the details.

Scup and sea bass may not be important to you, but they are certainly important to all the tackle shops. They sell a lot more scup and sea bass bait than eels for stripers.

[macojoe]

State is being forced to do the lic!! if they don't do it the feds will, this means the state will lose the money, so if its going to happen the state will do so as not to lose the cash!

I for one will never pay for a Saltwater lic!! Not until they move all the dragger's out to 3 mile limit!
What are we going to get for are money?? Nothing!!

I am not against dragger's, they do what they allow them to do, but they have ruined the inshore fishery! There is no place for them inshore!

When the DMF and others start protecting the inshore fishery so that those of us that fish it can, and catch fish, then and only then will I pay for a lic.

[Pt.JudeJoe]

Ark is usually only getting pogies locally for a short time.They will just move the boats to New Jersey earlier than usual and the bait shops and lobstermen will get their bait the same way they do all summer.

[RIROCKHOUND]

MM;
Totally agree. and it is limit driven.
You drop bass down to 1 fish the bait guys care less. People still fish.
You drop scup, seabass, Blackfish (look at the flap this year) and the squid/worms/crabs sales go way down.

Vic it isn't a shame. Mike is pointing out some very obvious and very real truths. I have spent my share of time at fisheries meeting for non-bass species. I guess lump me in on 'that side' of the fence. I'm not anti-commercial, especially if it is done the right way.

[MakoMike]

Bryan,
And I just heard that the ASMFC wants to cut tog by another 28%. If anyone is iterested I'll post the press release in a separate thread.

[RIROCKHOUND]

New thread!

[bart]

we're getting off track here. more bunker please

[ThrowingTimber]

Yup we need more bunker

[striprman]

When the bunker schools show up in the Weweantic/Wareham rivers again (bringing the bass, blues and squeateague with them), I'll be able to take my grandson fishing like the "old days".

Buzzards Bay isn't that far from RI

[TC23]

Senate Bill No.311
BY Lenihan, Sheehan
ENTITLED, AN ACT RELATING TO FISH AND WILDLIFE -- MENHADEN MANAGEMENT AREA
{LC1357/1}
02/07/2007 Introduced, referred to Senate Environment and Agriculture
----------------------

Members...

Please send a "thank you" to Senators Lenihan and Sheehan for co-sponsoring the
menhaden bill for us. Tell them you appreciate their efforts on the part of
everyone who cares about Narragansett Bay and our marine environment.

Suggest message...

Subject: Bill S.0311 on Menhaden - Thank you!

Their addresses:

sen-sheehan@rilin.state.ri.us
sen-lenihan@rilin.state.ri.us

[TC23]

The following was printed today in East Bay Newspapers.

Note that John Torgan was misquoted and he has called the newspaper to state that fact.

The paper says from John Torgan (of Save the Bay) "However, while he calls Rep. Gallison's legislation "brave" and "courageous,"
he doesn't believe there is enough scientific evidence out there to come up with an all-encompassing strategy for managing menhaden effectively — yet."

John states that he told the reporter that he believes THERE IS ENOUGH SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OUT THERE.....