Fluoro Carbon Leader - Page 2 - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

Casting Z's · 02-19-2007, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaptail

There is anintersting article in the 2006 IGFA Yearbook about fish sight and the way they view things like color and motion. It made me think about some things and make some changes.

First is the real value of Fluorocarbon. Acuity in fish (acuity = ability to see detail) differs in relation to water clarity and amount of light. We think of fish seeing as we do. Not even close.

Even in the clearest of waters fishes acuity is way less than ours. Add turbidity ( the amount of suspended silt/plant life and/or other organisms) and it's even less. I used to use 40 pound big game green for all my leaders and caught tons of fish day and night in flats water and deeper realms. Then I caught the Fluorocarbon bug, disapears in the water! Great! that will get me more fish I thought. Turns out it just ain't so.

Fishes ability to see varies from species to species. Some fish because of the way thier eyes are set see better from the side and some see better from the front ( our beloved Striped Bass see better from the front and slightly upward at that).

Some see the same color range as we do. Most do not. Marlin for example which I found really intriging, see only blues and greens, reds, browns and dirivitives there of are only seen as shades of gray.

Lures as we know, and thier coloration decrease in intensity the deeper the lure goes. After 15 feet color starts to rapidly loose inetensity. Greens and blues go first and reds/orange go after that but that is based on our eyes. Not fishes eyes.

The gist of the article was to debunk some myths about clear leaders and lure colors and detail of a lures design. No reason really to get very fine detail. It seems the number one deterrent or attractant is motion. It either moves like something edible or it doesn't and that they found triggers the most response of all.

Look it up they give some cool examples of how well fish can see and they have come up with a lot of new data.

Nice work!

Terence · 02-19-2007, 10:10 PM

anyone use yo zuri Hybrid in 50 lb for leader? 1000 yds for about 25.00?

eelman · 02-20-2007, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaptail

There is anintersting article in the 2006 IGFA Yearbook about fish sight and the way they view things like color and motion. It made me think about some things and make some changes.

First is the real value of Fluorocarbon. Acuity in fish (acuity = ability to see detail) differs in relation to water clarity and amount of light. We think of fish seeing as we do. Not even close.

Even in the clearest of waters fishes acuity is way less than ours. Add turbidity ( the amount of suspended silt/plant life and/or other organisms) and it's even less. I used to use 40 pound big game green for all my leaders and caught tons of fish day and night in flats water and deeper realms. Then I caught the Fluorocarbon bug, disapears in the water! Great! that will get me more fish I thought. Turns out it just ain't so.

Fishes ability to see varies from species to species. Some fish because of the way thier eyes are set see better from the side and some see better from the front ( our beloved Striped Bass see better from the front and slightly upward at that).

Some see the same color range as we do. Most do not. Marlin for example which I found really intriging, see only blues and greens, reds, browns and dirivitives there of are only seen as shades of gray.

Lures as we know, and thier coloration decrease in intensity the deeper the lure goes. After 15 feet color starts to rapidly loose inetensity. Greens and blues go first and reds/orange go after that but that is based on our eyes. Not fishes eyes.

The gist of the article was to debunk some myths about clear leaders and lure colors and detail of a lures design. No reason really to get very fine detail. It seems the number one deterrent or attractant is motion. It either moves like something edible or it doesn't and that they found triggers the most response of all.

Look it up they give some cool examples of how well fish can see and they have come up with a lot of new data.

Since a guy like Flap carries with him a ton of crediblity around these parts...re-read his post..Good job!

eelman · 02-20-2007, 07:11 AM

OK ! Since I do so well with live eels, I will tell you the secret...Its my leaders

I will tie them up for you at a cost of $10.00 a leader, I promise you will catch more bass...

Slingah · 02-19-2007, 09:16 PM

I don't need it....maybe if I fished the flats during the day...and when I do fish during the day the fish are usually going after something that I'm spashing all over the place anyway so I doubt they would be spooked by maybe being able to see mono.

westhavendave · 02-19-2007, 10:30 PM

In case anyone needs some Orvis mirage at very good prices check here.
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/,...erial-30m.html

Pound test can be determined here
http://www.orvis.com/intro_newwindow.asp?subject=1281

EricM · 02-20-2007, 12:25 AM

Both fluoro and mono have their applications, I use fluoro more, has good abrasion resistance, but mono works too...hmmm

NIB · 02-20-2007, 06:30 AM

I use flouro.I have this little river by my house where I was given a lesson.The lesson was if u did not have 30 flouro u where not getting bit, plain an simple.
Say what u want.I also fish a lot of sticky area's an have landed fish with my line looking like it had gone thru a cheese grater..
There's no doubt in my mind that if i fished with a similar # test mono line leader i would not have landed the fish..
I use it for everthing.up to 80 lb test.Cept' for pencils i use 100 lb Big Game. Cabela's usta sell 100 yd spools for 28 dollars but i don't see em anymore.While i was in the catalog though i did order a snorkel

I don't understand the eletist attitude of beating down of todays catalog angler.I have seen todays angler they are bullet proof.usta be u had to have balls of stone to stand in the surfline for a tide in 45 degree water while u waders leaked.If someone wants the best gear what difference does it make.I'm happy I don't have to fish in canvas or rubber waders with the plastic bags around my feet anymore.
Cause ur waders always leaked..
#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& Why don't u go thru ur list of catalog favorites.
Lets see if i can help, if I remember correctly.
400 dollar Simms waders............Check
Some kinda shoe with korkers 200$
225 dollar simms dry top w/ eel slime...Check
300 dollar Gloomis rod................Check
250 dollar Shimano Calcutta reel..Check.
3 dollar plastic eel pail..

Boy it don't look like linen line an calcutta rod with a penn 155 now does it..
It's looks like the best available. Pretty much can't blame u for using the best.
Why get on someone else..
Further more no one ever accused u of being a product cheerleader..If someone like me wants to help a friend sell a product that I know works well where is the crime in that..

Does the practice go on to new levels on the internet??
Sure it does..It's like any lesson in life.It's ultimately up to the individual
to make there own choice's..

dredey · 02-20-2007, 06:34 AM

i use orvis mirage flourocarbin because i get it at a good price and because it's just a habit to use flouro that i got from trout fishing. put it this way. it can't hurt. and it's definately not for the status.

Flaptail · 02-20-2007, 07:04 AM

The best of both worlds in my use is Yozuri Hybrid in clear. It;s tough and has that added touch of Fluoro. I use 30lb mostly.

On flats and Albies I use ten pound fluoro. Tunoids have the best of fishdom's acuity senses.

fishpoopoo · 02-20-2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaptail

The best of both worlds in my use is Yozuri Hybrid in clear. It;s tough and has that added touch of Fluoro. I use 30lb mostly.

On flats and Albies I use ten pound fluoro. Tunoids have the best of fishdom's acuity senses.

Yup, fluoro will give you a measurable edge when fishing for the tunoids (albies, bones, yellowfin and bluefin and albacore). I actually tested the difference on a daytime charter during an October albie blitz and a few offshore trips. Fluoro outperformed clear mono by something like 2:1.

I also think that fluoro is better than mono for certain bottomfishing applications. Fluke and blackfish come to mind. I can't explain why (you're dropping your offering right on its head?).

As far as bluefish go, fluoro is obviously a waste. But there's always a spool in my plugbag for the bass at night, not that I am terribly religious about using it over plain mono leader.

Pete_G · 02-20-2007, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaptail

The best of both worlds in my use is Yozuri Hybrid in clear. It;s tough and has that added touch of Fluoro. I use 30lb mostly.

On flats and Albies I use ten pound fluoro. Tunoids have the best of fishdom's acuity senses.

I've played with the clear Hybrid and it's good, but the knot strength isn't even near what the purple stuff has. The clear may have an optical advantage, depending how much you believe in that.

Take 50 clear and then take 50 pound purple. Tie the same knot in 2 leaders with the same hardware and then attach one end of the leader to something you can get a good grip on, and then attach the other end to something solid. Then smoothly pull.

Compared to pretty much every 50# test fluoro and mono we had on hand, the purple Hybrid dominates due to knot strength almost every time. It wasn't the most scientific of tests, but the advantage is typically so obvious you'll never need a scale to notice it.

It was a slow afternoon in the SWE a few years ago when we took the time to figure this one out...

The bonus is obviously that Yozuri Hybrid is as cheap as anything out there and it's awfully tough among the rocks.

I'm will always be loyal to true fluoro for tuna though.

eelman · 02-20-2007, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIB

I use flouro.I have this little river by my house where I was given a lesson.The lesson was if u did not have 30 flouro u where not getting bit, plain an simple.
Say what u want.I also fish a lot of sticky area's an have landed fish with my line looking like it had gone thru a cheese grater..
There's no doubt in my mind that if i fished with a similar # test mono line leader i would not have landed the fish..
I use it for everthing.up to 80 lb test.Cept' for pencils i use 100 lb Big Game. Cabela's usta sell 100 yd spools for 28 dollars but i don't see em anymore.While i was in the catalog though i did order a snorkel

I don't understand the eletist attitude of beating down of todays catalog angler.I have seen todays angler they are bullet proof.usta be u had to have balls of stone to stand in the surfline for a tide in 45 degree water while u waders leaked.If someone wants the best gear what difference does it make.I'm happy I don't have to fish in canvas or rubber waders with the plastic bags around my feet anymore.
Cause ur waders always leaked..
#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& Why don't u go thru ur list of catalog favorites.
Lets see if i can help, if I remember correctly.
400 dollar Simms waders............Check
Some kinda shoe with korkers 200$
225 dollar simms dry top w/ eel slime...Check
300 dollar Gloomis rod................Check
250 dollar Shimano Calcutta reel..Check.
3 dollar plastic eel pail..

Boy it don't look like linen line an calcutta rod with a penn 155 now does it..
It's looks like the best available. Pretty much can't blame u for using the best.
Why get on someone else..
Further more no one ever accused u of being a product cheerleader..If someone like me wants to help a friend sell a product that I know works well where is the crime in that..

Does the practice go on to new levels on the internet??
Sure it does..It's like any lesson in life.It's ultimately up to the individual
to make there own choice's..

Check your facts bud....Gloomis rods...Gifts...free..did not buy...Gloomis rep gave me several rods...and McKenna gave me the rest...not a penny spent....

Shimano calcutta reel...$150.00 (discount friends)..

Some kind of shoes with korkers $200?? Nope...My wading shoes were $50.00 bucks...Korkers...well yes....I would think any fool would agree that $75.00 is well spent money to avoid a long hospital stay and possibly paraylasis from a broken neck...which gives me a good idea...save the wasted money that flouro wouyld have cost and buy korkers...now thats a wise purchase..

Simms top....$199.00 Xmas gift money

Only one your correct on is the waders and I think I mentioned that in an earlier post , that was a comfort buy...Got huge discount on that also....paid wholesale....

And most of these "Luxery" surf items...I waited 20 years to buy....

I stick by my comment earlier.....Its the reasons for buying....I still say most buy the top end because they somehow think it will make them instant striper sharpies...And I am saying its not so...

One other thing....I fished a Quantum Iron most of last season...$89.00 bucks....................

Man I guess no one ever caught a bass before flouro...must be in the new century here that the bass decided to change....The fish I caught last year must have been geriatrics from a by gone era...cause I caught them pretty much at will day and night without flouro...Maybe the ones I fish for need glasses

NIB · 02-20-2007, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

Check your facts bud....Gloomis rods...Gifts...free..did not buy...Gloomis rep gave me several rods...and McKenna gave me the rest...not a penny spent....

Shimano calcutta reel...$150.00 (discount friends)..

Some kind of shoes with korkers $200?? Nope...My wading shoes were $50.00 bucks...Korkers...well yes....I would think any fool would agree that $75.00 is well spent money to avoid a long hospital stay and possibly paraylasis from a broken neck...which gives me a good idea...save the wasted money that flouro wouyld have cost and buy korkers...now thats a wise purchase..

Simms top....$199.00 Xmas gift money

Only one your correct on is the waders and I think I mentioned that in an earlier post , that was a comfort buy...Got huge discount on that also....paid wholesale....

And most of these "Luxery" surf items...I waited 20 years to buy....

I stick by my comment earlier.....Its the reasons for buying....I still say most buy the top end because they somehow think it will make them instant striper sharpies...And I am saying its not so...

One other thing....I fished a Quantum Iron most of last season...$89.00 bucks....................

Man I guess no one ever caught a bass before flouro...must be in the new century here that the bass decided to change....The fish I caught last year must have been geriatrics from a by gone era...cause I caught them pretty much at will day and night without flouro...Maybe the ones I fish for need glasses

I have no idea how u aquired ur fishing gear. The fact is as it is well documented.Here an in ur seminars..If i chose to emulate u.It would cost quite a bit of money.Not excactly entry level expenditures...
Hey, U use what u like. an I'll use what I like..If someone ask's i will tell em..
I cannot argue with ur success but it won't change my mind..
Test's are good reading.There's always lots of variables to consider..
I like the conclusions I have come to in my own tests.
Sure fishing today is loaded with weekend warriors.Guys who do not have the time for whatever reason to hit it hard.They work hard so they have perhaps some surplus cash.Is it such a horror for them to have decent gear.not in my book.I never judge a book by it's cover.I really have no interest in running into anyone when i fish.I certainly don't pay attention to what they are wearing...
Oh an thanks for the offer of tieng my leaders..
I'll have to decline as I can only trust my own knots...

eelman · 02-20-2007, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIB

I have no idea how u aquired ur fishing gear. The fact is as it is well documented.Here an in ur seminars..If i chose to emulate u.It would cost quite a bit of money.Not excactly entry level expenditures...
Hey, U use what u like. an I'll use what I like..If someone ask's i will tell em..
I cannot argue with ur success but it won't change my mind..
Test's are good reading.There's always lots of variables to consider..
I like the conclusions I have come to in my own tests.
Sure fishing today is loaded with weekend warriors.Guys who do not have the time for whatever reason to hit it hard.They work hard so they have perhaps some surplus cash.Is it such a horror for them to have decent gear.not in my book.I never judge a book by it's cover.I really have no interest in running into anyone when i fish.I certainly don't pay attention to what they are wearing...
Oh an thanks for the offer of tieng my leaders..
I'll have to decline as I can only trust my own knots...

Brutal, just brutal...Fot the last time I said that the gear does not make the fisherman...I have good gear? yes...Do is let me catch more fish? Nope....To many guys are SOLD on the notion that a certain product is going to make them better...doesnt work that way..

I never said in my seminars that a guy needs to go out and buy a calcutta..I only say it is my choice reel and that I only recomend conventional for slingin eels...

I Would also decline in return...as my knots are the only ones I trust...

chuckg · 02-20-2007, 12:08 PM

This is like deja vue all over again, thought this was discussed a couple of months ago, anyway, buy a spool of 50# big game, save your $$ on the flouro, go fishing more than you now do and you'll see your "luck" improve...

Mike P · 02-20-2007, 12:34 PM

Well, let me just go on the record here with this: let it be known far and wide that Mike P is very open to freebies and discounted stuff.

Sure, I have tons of my own, but if anyone wants to grease me, I'll certainly be amenable to using the stuff

Saltheart · 02-20-2007, 04:20 PM

50 pound Ande pink or 60 pound Ande green. Worked for me for as far back as I can remember. Tried flouro once at the canal. It sucked.