spook tail weight ?

[Lower]

Turned out a bunch of proto spooks last night. Seeing that the water around here is pretty hard I just configured them all a little different and am going to finish them and play with them in the spring. I tried different weights, line ties, etc. Anyway as I was playing around I was trying to figure the difference in tail weights.

Trying to determine how the action will differ if the weighting is the same (meaning both slight tail down) but one is tail weighted and the other 2/3rd's down. The only thing I can think of is that the 2/3rd down belly weight will keel the lure more?? Maybe a little more glide? I would think the tail weight will push the front of the lure around a bit more and create a tighter walk?

Any thoughts on the differences? (I'm talking tail weight only, not double weighted spooks)

[Lower]

Oh and I'll defintily post some pics and results (if/when I find open water). Until I can test them I'm curious what the "on paper" results are.

[numbskull]

Not sure what you mean by 2/3 down (? a belly weight 2/3 rds the way back). Most tail weighted spooks/howdys float near vertical. Jigman's excellent spook floats at a 15-20 degree angle. Both ways work well.

[Lower]

Sorry I guess I wasn't all that clear. I guess what I'm getting at is if there would be a difference between a belly (2/3rds the way down like a ballerina) and a tail weighted spook IF they sit at the same angle in the water. So plug 1 is weighted like a ballerina and sits at 20 degrees and plug 2 is tail weighted and also sits at 20 degrees. Would you expect any difference in action? More of a conversation question I guess.

[PNG]

Originally Posted by Lower

Sorry I guess I wasn't all that clear. I guess what I'm getting at is if there would be a difference between a belly (2/3rds the way down like a ballerina) and a tail weighted spook IF they sit at the same angle in the water. So plug 1 is weighted like a ballerina and sits at 20 degrees and plug 2 is tail weighted and also sits at 20 degrees. Would you expect any difference in action? More of a conversation question I guess.

I think getting the 2 plugs to sit at the same declination being weighted differently would be hard to do.
What is it you are trying to accomplish?
While the spook and ballerina are cousins they have seperate applications.
Like you said a ballerina glides more than a spook. I would put the Jigsmith in the glide catagory. Awesome plug. Wind picks up I want a spook. Tail weight punches the wind better. More wind a pencil.

[Jigman]

Originally Posted by PNG

... Wind picks up I want a spook. Tail weight punches the wind better. More wind a pencil.

I agree. A spook will cast well, but its really not a distance plug or something that will cut the wind well. A popper or a pencil are better for that purpose.

Tail weight will give you better distance, belly weight will hold better in rougher water. Action is a little different, even if they sit the same in the water. Belly weight give more of a glide. Best way to know for sure is to do up a couple, one with a tail weight, the other belly weight and compare.

Jigman

[Lower]

Thanks PNG and Jigman. Took a few picture...this will help. I started by turning a spook shape while looking at a picture of a bunker. Was looking for a little shorter fatter profile than a ballerina or spook. Once I got that I was playing around with how I would finish the plug (weights, line ties, etc). I understand how ballerina's differ from howdy's differ from a traditional spook. What I couldn't quite grasp is how the exact plug would differ with the different tail weighting schemes.

[Lower]

The first picture is of the two weighting schemes on matching plugs. The second is of the two line ties I'm going to try. So there are 4 plugs. 2 low line ties and two regular. One tail weighted one belly of each. I have plenty of howdy (heavy tail weight) type plugs. I'm kind of looking for a more slow glide type walk.

Anyway...just thought this might make for some interesting discussion.

[Jigman]

Nice looking plug. For more of a glide, move the belly weight up closer to the belly hook.

Jigman

[numbskull]

However you weight it, I'd keep it floating at an angle. I built something similar a few years ago that was heavily tail weighted (and convex shaped/central line tie) and floated straight up and down with the nose out about 2". It sucked. Did more porpoiseing than anything else on retrieve. I think that sort of weighting scheme works better with narrower profile plugs. I also think the profile of the back half of the plug becomes important when you weight it. For plugs that float at an angle I like convex (hump of curve out), for plugs that float straight up and down I like straight or concave (curve in). I think as you pull the plug, the shape of the back portion briefly acts like a rudder/planer. With the heavier tail you want it to push the nose down, with the lighter tail push the nose up. I definitely like the lower line tie on plugs that float at an angle. I haven't tried them on plugs that float vertical, but I suspect it wouldn't work as well.

[BigFish]

My "Blitzseeker" is tail weighted and has a shot of "00" in the chin. Rests in the water at about a 45 degree angle and the chin weight comes into play upon retrieve. It walks the dog easy as pie and if you lower the rod tip below your waist and give a tug it goes subsurface and will stay there through the retrieve if you keep the line tight and pop the tip! I wanted the plug to stay chin down more than most "spook" plugs do.....did not want it to pop back up like a pencil when you pause. The chin weight acts as an equalizer keeping the tail from slumping quickly down when you pause.

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by Jigman

I agree. A spook will cast well, but its really not a distance plug or something that will cut the wind well. A popper or a pencil are better for that purpose.

Tail weight will give you better distance, belly weight will hold better in rougher water. Action is a little different, even if they sit the same in the water. Belly weight give more of a glide. Best way to know for sure is to do up a couple, one with a tail weight, the other belly weight and compare.

Jigman

What ever Jiggy says ... Bernzy will tell you about his Howdy . "Its Not a Spook",,, Orig. Cordell Boy Howdy was a stick bait ... sits near vertical like a PP .You can walk it like a PP and catch tons of fish ..Your talking about optimun spook glide ..sit like jiggys ,,

[Lower]

Thanks guys...I guess this was more of the conversation I was looking for. Pictures always help I guess.

I've caught hundreds of fish on the "howdy" type design. Long, thin, lots of tail weight. I guess with this one I was going for a bit more for a traditional spook. Maybe tail down 10-20 degrees and sit more horizontal. As numbskull said, I think loading the tail with too much weight wouldn't work with this shape. I'll take a couple more pics with them in the water.

Tagger...I don't have a jigman spook or a jigsmith to compare. So I'm just going on what you guys tell me.

Jigman...I'll turn one more and move the weight closer to the belly hook. Belly hook placement is just a starting point too.

Bigfish...Didn't realize the blitzseeker was weighted that way. Neat idea.

The hardest part is that its fun to try some new designs in the winter, but then testing them is impossible when everything around you is frozen!

[BigFish]

Hope this helps? Try it...I like it and so do the fish! There are folks on here who will testify......"Blitzseeker"= Bass Candy! Just something different...try them all and see what works for you!

[ProfessorM]

what no belly grommet.

[gldnbear93]

and one I have been playing around with....

bury the tailweight deeper up the chute and plug it with a nylon spacer

example-if you use a 1" tailweight drill out the butt end 1 1/2- 2" deep, insert tailweight then insert the spacer to fill the hole. you can get the spacers in the hardware dept (where they have the screws, bolts etc) at homies.

If you are drilling the front of the through hole lower than center then this will also act SLIGHTLY as a keel weight and you don't have to drill a belly hole and fill it with weight then epoxy.

I'll post a picture later if you want.

[redneck24]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Hope this helps? Try it...I like it and so do the fish! There are folks on here who will testify......"Blitzseeker"= Bass Candy! Just something different...try them all and see what works for you!

very close to how i weight mine, great results.

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by BigFish

"Blitzseeker"= Bass Candy!

You got me ... Larry put aside one of those Bass Candy Blitzseeker's for me .. pearl white .. I'll buy at 1st show your at .. please .. one with a belly grommet ...

[stripercrazy]

chris I got a spook like yours that glides nice w/.24 tailweight...its just enough weight to bring the tail around...I build a bunch of huge spooks last year 4-6 oz I like to glide them, all center drilled and tail weighted...they'll roll alittle...seems when I was testing...to light you get no action then as the tail is alittle down they glide....more weight they walk and then more weight there duds.bringing the linetie and the weight 2/3...help stops roll......with the chin weight and a tad more in the tail stops it too

[Backbeach Jake]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Hope this helps? Try it...I like it and so do the fish! There are folks on here who will testify......"Blitzseeker"= Bass Candy! Just something different...try them all and see what works for you!

I'll testify, That plug works itself, a real pleasure to fish!

[Lower]

Some great ideas here. Thanks.

Ed...that's how #2 is weighted right now. .24 oz in the rear. I like how it sits in the water (especially with the low line tie.)

Goldenbear...I've thought about that a bit too. You think by doing that you get a little more glide out of it? Kind of goes along with what Jigman was saying about moving the weight more toward the hook. I will admit I like tail weights as it skips that drilling, filling, etc step. Think I might try that too, just to see.

Look at that Larry, I helped sell a plug... Not that they need much help...I've heard great things about them.

Feel free to keep kicking around ideas. Fun to hear the different ideas.

[BigFish]

You got it Ed! See me at PlugFest! You going??

[Jigman]

My 2 cents on spooks. A spook, or any walk-the-dog plug for that matter, is nothing more than a chunk of wood with hooks and some lead in it. It has no inherent action to it. Probably 90% or more of the action comes from the user and there are many different ways to work a spook. All the builder can do is set it up so that the fisherman can easily work the plug in the conditions where it was meant to be fished. In the case of my spook, I designed it for a tailwater area down here. Currents can be wicked here, canal like, except that you can have currents moving in different directions depending on where in the cast you are and the part of the river. Some waves, but nothing like what you guys have in the surf. Distance can be important, some days. Rough conditions and current are, in many cases, similar to what you guys experience in the surf. That’s why the plug works well there too. I had tried tail weighted spooks, but the currents would flip them over, toss them around, and you could not get them to work right in many areas.

When designing a spook, you basically have a few variables to play with: wood type, shape, location of line tie (centered or off-center) location of weight, and amount of weight. Note that you can pretty much get any shape to walk-the-dog. Throw lead in the belly of a pencil, it will walk (even with an off center line tie). Remove the lip from a pikie and weigh it right, it will walk. Hell, you could probably put hooks on a dowel and get it to walk if weighed right (and the angler knew what they were doing). In general, a roundish shape, thicker up front, thinner towards the tail will walk well. The main thing is how it is weighed and how much weight you use. I’ve seen some spooks done by surf guys that, in my opinion, had too much lead in the tail. The plug looked more like a turd swirling around the bowl trying to avoid the flush than a baitfish escaping a hungry predator. Comes from the need for distance that you’ll find in surf fishing at times. If you need to reach out and touch them, use a popper or a pencil. While a spook casts pretty well, I would not consider it a distance plug. Too much lead in the spook will kill, or at least deaden, the action.

No matter how you weigh it, a spook should sit slightly tail down in the water, closer to 20 degrees than 45. A belly weight, all other things equal, will give you more of a glide than a tail weight. The belly weight also creates a more stable plug for rougher water. The tail weight will likely get you more distance. The closer to the belly hook you place the weight, the more of a glide you’ll get. As an aside, the method that Larry shows is similar to how a musky glider is weighed: a slug of lead near the tail and one near the head, sinks level. They walk them subsurface. Crank the handle and a good glider will do a 180 degree turn and glide 8-12 inches.

Back to spook. Line tie below center will give you a little more splash as the plug goes side to side than a center line tie. If you go with a center line tie, and the weight is close to the belly hook, the plug will often go subsurface during the walk.

A lighter wood is more lively than a heavier wood. A heavy wood may be more stable in rough water.

Those are the basics. There is certainly much more that could be said concerning the individual variables, but that will get you started. Likewise, a whole lot could be said concerning how to work a spook. Soooo, with that being said, figure out the conditions that you will typically fish your spook and how you want the plug to work, then start messing with the variables to get the action you are after. A properly designed spook will have some belly roll (flash) as it goes side and side and will walk real easy. Well, at least until it gets blasted by a fish

Jigman

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by gldnbear93

and one I have been playing around with....

bury the tailweight deeper up the chute and plug it with a nylon spacer

example-if you use a 1" tailweight drill out the butt end 1 1/2- 2" deep, insert tailweight then insert the spacer to fill the hole. you can get the spacers in the hardware dept (where they have the screws, bolts etc) at homies.

If you are drilling the front of the through hole lower than center then this will also act SLIGHTLY as a keel weight and you don't have to drill a belly hole and fill it with weight then epoxy.

I'll post a picture later if you want.

I've been doing that with needles for years
works good for spooks as well


Excellant post Jigman

[Lower]

Agree...excellent post jigman. Tons of information in that one.

I really haven't started many "how do I do this type threads", but really wanted to here a little more on peoples thoughts about it. I agree with what you said above about making anything walk the dog. With a half way decent profile and some lead in the arse...it walks. Like I've seen Tagger say in the past. I got got plugs that walk and catch fish...but they'll kill you of exhaustion doing it! I guess my goal was to make something that would walk/glide with a little more ease. I keep seeing over and over how great the jiggy/jigsmith spook is. I never doubted it, just curious why. From what I've heard from other it's from how easily it works. That's when I figured I put some time into seeing what makes it work easier...not just work. Anyway...thanks for chiming in and the help...much appreciated.

[gldnbear93]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

I've been doing that with needles for years
works good for spooks as well

yup works great with needles. starting to play with it for topwater

here's an example (not a spook but same ideafor the weights) this one is drilled almost to the belly hole about 3" deep. These are not the inserts I'm using for this plug-just what's handy at the moment. The nose hole is way down almost in the botton of the cup, so the weight acts as a keel along with the bouyancy of the wood above the through wire, keeping this plug upright. I'm really looking forward to this one hitting the water for further testing.

[numbskull]

Those nylon bushings get expensive real fast. I gave up and started center drilling dowels. Drill a hole in a wood block (clamped to your drill table) about 3/4" deep, the same size as your dowel, swap out drill bits, put a short piece of dowel in the hole, and drill 1/2 way through, flip it and drill the other end. String a bunch on a wire, soak in your sealer, dry......spacers galore good to go.

You can also use tubing as a cheap spacer, but you lose some buoyancy as the space will fill with water.

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by BigFish

You got it Ed! See me at PlugFest! You going??

YES

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by Lower

Agree...excellent post jigman. Tons of information in that one.

Like I've seen Tagger say in the past. I got got plugs that walk and catch fish...but they'll kill you of exhaustion doing it!

I fell victim to a distance casters mentality . Made spooks out of maple , mahogony , birch .. They'll work, but wear you down ,, not fun after a while . If I see fish out in the middle of the canal I'm reaching for a Pencil Popper . I think spooks cast great ,, just not your optimun distance . That being said , I swear a spook will raise a fish when nothing eles will .. Always one with me ,,

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Those nylon bushings get expensive real fast. I gave up and started center drilling dowels. Drill a hole in a wood block (clamped to your drill table) about 3/4" deep, the same size as your dowel, swap out drill bits, put a short piece of dowel in the hole, and drill 1/2 way through, flip it and drill the other end. String a bunch on a wire, soak in your sealer, dry......spacers galore good to go.

You can also use tubing as a cheap spacer, but you lose some buoyancy as the space will fill with water.

You always got me learning ..