Striped Bass, the condition of the fishery

[RIROCKHOUND]

Tony good points... From the MD fish/game website:
http://www.dnr.state.md.us/fisheries...tripedbass.asp

# Female striped bass can mature as early as age 4; however, it takes several years (age 8 or older) for spawning females to reach full productivity.
# Males can mature as early as age 2.

I'm still a 1 fish 36" advocate; it will reduce the amount of fish taken by a lot;

So maybe a little larger slot is appropriate. I'd be more in favor of a larger upper limit; i.e. One @ 28-24" and 45" (just saw you posted the same slot size) and above...

[NIB]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Tony good points... From the MD fish/game website:
http://www.dnr.state.md.us/fisheries...tripedbass.asp

# Female striped bass can mature as early as age 4; however, it takes several years (age 8 or older) for spawning females to reach full productivity.
# Males can mature as early as age 2.

I'm still a 1 fish 36" advocate; it will reduce the amount of fish taken by a lot;

So maybe a little larger slot is appropriate. I'd be more in favor of a larger upper limit; i.e. One @ 28-24" and 45" (just saw you posted the same slot size) and above...

I am also fine with one at 36"..Makes everything easier..
You cannot believe or maybe you can the education/enforcement nightmare of multiple slot limits..Just go to any busy tackle shop on a saturday afternoon as they try to educate their customers..
We had something like this in NJ a few years ago.

[inTHERAPY]

I have sent my request to Sen Menard and my reps asking them not to support this bill. I do not think that MA commercial fisherman, including myself on a part-time basis, should be shut out of the fisheries. I do not buy the SF line. That being said, I posted my thoughts about the desease elsewhere and the need to "think about the fishery" and got my a-hole ripped. If the response I received is any indication of the response being sent to the legislature this bill is gonna have a tough time going through.

[Canalman]

How can anyone call closing the Commercial Season a moot point? If you really think the recreational set is doing more damage, which over the season they might be, you're still saving over a million pounds of commercial bass not to mention the tens-of-thousands of pounds of hardly mentioned cull fish that get tossed over the side when the 31st to 50th bass of the day is bigger than one they kept earlier that morning.

If you're going to keep the season open. Make it 5 fish per day 7 days a week, all season long, that way there is no "free for all" as BackBeach put it and the market doesn;t flood. You can sell your 20 or 30 at $2.00 pp when the market is flooded or you can stabilize the market by guranteeing a fresh, daily supply the restaurants will put it on the menu and the price will go UP.

Next, make it MA residents only. These two changes would keep the guys who save their vacation time to go fishing everyday to make extra money off the water. No one can justify taking time off to sell 5 fish per day.

If you all want your chance to save the bait
Vote on the new Menhaden Bill in MA, they are trying to open our inshore waters to purse seining for Menhaden again.

We need to organize a F()KING bus trip for this one!

I still think we should close the commercial fishery, we're NOT saving ANYTHING by keeping it open and that really IS the BOTTOM LINE.

-Dave

[Canalman]

oooh and not to mention the tens of thousands of pogies that the commerical fleet kills and rigs daily for live, chunk and yo-yo baits. Now what's your next move?

[Sea Dangles]

Dave, the comm fleet is not killing tens of thousands daily,not even close. It may not even be weekly.There are a limited amount of guys supplying bait stores with fresh pogies, but the comm fishermen don't even come close to taking those kind of numbers.

[Canalman]

You don't think so? I could be wrong... but I know more than a few guys who won't head out until they have 300 to rig for yo-yoing, chumming and chunking. Maybe TENS of thousands was a bit of an exaggeration but I don't think thousands is.

[Canalman]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

but the comm fishermen don't even come close to taking those kind of numbers.

How do you know this though? Do you know every commercial fisherman? Just the ammount of guys on the pigs, around the islands and gay head would easily add to up to a few thousand pogies each day if they had 40 each. (I know they take many more than that). And we're no even counting the Cape guys, the guys around Nantucket and the rest of the Vineyard and the Boston Harbor heading north. The more I think about it, the more I think 10,000 might be a possible daily bunker kill, during the commercial season.

Maybe we should make livelining and chunking illegal?

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Canalman

oooh and not to mention the tens of thousands of pogies that the commerical fleet kills and rigs daily for live, chunk and yo-yo baits. Now what's your next move?

Dave, this is the only post I was responding to,don't try to make it what it isn't. If you wish to make a valid point perhaps you would be better served by not using exaggeration or metaphors,rather presenting the facts to lend some credibility. The attack on calamma is also uncalled for given the fact he has obviously walked it and talked it before and appears to be saving his strength for fishing. This noble endeavor you are undertaking is obviously important to you, but a calculated strategy may cast it in a more serious light.

[Canalman]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Dave, this is the only post I was responding to,don't try to make it what it isn't. If you wish to make a valid point perhaps you would be better served by not using exaggeration or metaphors,rather presenting the facts to lend some credibility. The attack on calamma is also uncalled for given the fact he has obviously walked it and talked it before and appears to be saving his strength for fishing. This noble endeavor you are undertaking is obviously important to you, but a calculated strategy may cast it in a more serious light.

That was not an attack on Clammer, I was using his words as an example to show what seems to be a consensus among the many that sit back and wait. Clammer is a friend of mine, and all I did was take his words and put them in the mouths of the many who are saying the same things.

When I went to bed last night after submitting that last post, I considered getting back up to delete it because I did write it in the shotgun fashion, more typing, less thinking. But I decided that leaving it up there was better because, it might push someone to go and it might piss a few people off... seems I mostly achieved the latter .

The last thing I want to do is create enemies or spiteful ignorance of an important issue. I brought up the menhanden meeting because so many people were burying the Gamefish Bill in favor of saving the bait. So now we have a chance to make a step toward what was a unified goal -- but it's too hard I guess.

It's obvious that this is going nowhere. So, I guess I'll quit too for now.

I can't, for the life of me, figure out how this became a flame war. It's something we should all want. I guess I'll keep my tongue in my mouth from now on. I should know better anyway.

-Dave

[BassDawg]

DAVE!!

you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, imho.

before everyone goes to beating me up about
my past internet foibles and short time "in the suds",,,,,,,

i am inclined to agree with Dave and his argument,
prima facia, since what he is saying is sincere and VALID!

Clammer wasn't being attacked, it seemed that Canalman
was agreeing with him if you get the giste of Dave's words.
ALSO, exagerration is a fine way of emphasizing a point. BOTH
sides of this debate twist science, manipulate legislation, and
use some form of sensationalism to sway public opinion,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

soooooo, i don't fault Dave for having his opinion and sticking to it
while trying to call more than just a few of us to action. haven't WE ALL agreed that getting a busload of us to agree on anything is miraculous at best??? all the more reason for shame, exagerration, guilt, coupla bombs being tossed ~~most anything short of gunpoint~~ to get a large number of us MOVING towards a common goal.

whether his opinion is based in fact, or IS somehwat exagerrated to
wake someof us UP and get our bums off of our couches, is of little
or no consequence to me when the MAIN OBJECTIVE that i believe
he is shooting for is to promote INVOLVEMENT!!!

this problem that faces our fishery is a multi-faceted and prolonged process that WILL take a progression of wins and losses to arrive at the ultimate GOAL of resolving to do what is best for forage, species, AND estuary. BUT, what is undeniably TRUE is that we must remain resolute and involved with EVERY step of the process. and if tonight COULD start witha BANG??? then has Dave's end justified his means?? in my view, YES!!

amongst several esteemed dissenting opinions,
Dave's task is daunting at best and well worth stepping on a few toesies!!
hope i've not hurt anyone's feelings, and what time and where is the meeting in Plymouth, MA??
i'll sea ya there, CanalDave!!

[MakoMike]

To put Omega out of business you're going to have convince an awful lot of politicans to throw their consitituents out of work. To give you an idea of what you are up against, the VA state legislature voted to give omega the menhaden they wanted even if it meant going out of compliance with the ASMFC. Good luck, but I think you're wasting you time, unless and until the menhaden population becomes "overfished" which they are not currently.

[BasicPatrick]

Here is a clear way to fix the forage

Honest By Catch.com & MSBA Action Alert

The New England Fisheries Management Council is developing an Amendment or set of regulations to manage observers & by catch in the Atlantic Herring Fishery. This fishery primarily targets Sea Herring and is where the mid water trawl and pair trawl operations are known to catch large amounts of River Herring, Haddock, Scup, Shad, some Striped Bass and more. To learn more about the issue check out www.Honestbycatch.com

Currently, the Herring Oversight Committee is developing alternatives or options for the full council. At their December meeting only one set of alternatives was approved. The whole point of the process is for a range of alternatives to be analyzed for the full council. This step is also important because by the time the proposed regulations are released for public comment, it is too late to add new ideas because of the amount of evaluation that has to be done for an option to be legal.

The next meeting of the Herring Oversight Committee is tomorrow, January 28th at 9:30am at the Sheraton Providence Airport Hotel in RI. One of the items on the agenda for this meeting is for the committee to "review analysis of river herring bycatch in the atlantic herring industry". Links to the full agenda & meeting materials are posted here.

Agenda:http://www.nefmc.org/calendar/index.html

Materials:http://www.nefmc.org/calendar/index.html

Obviously, interested members of the public do not have the time to review all of the meeting materials. However you can still make a difference

The best way for you to make a difference is to attend the hearing because the more recreational fishermen and interested members of the public the more the regulators are able to stand up to industry pressure and write a good regulation. Just being in the room paying attention is important all by itself. If you then wish to speak at the times allowed you can and you do not have to sound like a scientist to do so. At the end of this section we have provided some basic ideas we feel should be included in the options.

Send E-mails & make calls now:
We urge all recreational fishers call and e-mail support of the CHOIR coalition proposal which can be read in the meeting materials link above. Key points to this proposal include:

Prohibit dumping (aka “slippage”) of a net while observers are on board.
Require observers on both vessels in a pair trawl.
Require 100 per cent observers in ground fish closed areas
Require a high level of observers at all times
Use time and area closures for locations known to have a history of by catch incidents

Please contact your state committee members today:

All States
Sally McGee
Environmental Defense
860/572-0190
email:smcgee@environmentaldefense.org

Rhode Island
Mark Gibson, Acting Chief
RI Division of Fish and Wildlife
401/783-8906
email: mark.gibson@dem.ri.gov

Massachusetts
David E. Pierce, Deputy Director
Division of Marine Fisheries
251 Causeway Street
Boston, MA 02114
617/626-1532/Fax:617/626-1509
email: david.pierce@state.ma.us

Maine
Terry Stockwell
ME Department of Marine Resources
21 State House Station
Augusta , ME 04333-0021
207/624-6562/Fax:207/624-6024
email: terry.stockwell@maine.gov

New Hampshire
Doug Grout, Chief, Marine Division
NH Fish and Game Department
225 Main Street
Durham, NH 03824
603/868-1096/Fax:603/868-3305
email: douglas.grout@wildlife.nh.gov

[BasicPatrick]

FYI...this is my new project...all on my own but getting endorsed by many including MSBA

A lot of different issues in a lot of different management authorities clashing in this thread. Bottom line is there are a group of us out there doing the work. We need you all to support the clubs that actully have reps at these meeitngs. We need you to respond to calls for action such as the one ongoing today. We need you to show up at hearings. Let's not fight amongst each other. Let's fight to have good regulations and balanced conservation and recreation.

Sorry for the quick response but this week is:

tues pm Ma Inshore Net Hearing in Plymouth
Wed Day NEFMC Herring Oversite Committee in RI
Wed Night MSBA 700th Meeting Cancelled---gotta plow now
Thursday Day MA Ocean Partnership Event all Day in Boston
Thursday PM Neponser River Citizens Advisory Committee (Think River Herring)
Friday....may be breathe

[CaptMike]

If I am in attendance at a meeting what should I do to help?

[BasicPatrick]

Listen...ask questions...when it is time for comment from audience or public tell em what you think

At the hearing tomorrow I will be there...say hello and I can show you some of the stuff we are supporting...see the meeting materials link above and check out the CHOIR proposal

There are some bullet points that are pretty simple listed above as well

thanks for the interest

[BasicPatrick]

Let's see here...I had a minute to breathe and that is now over...here is some comment/thoughts.

A slot of 20-26" + over 40" will do what? Can anyone answer?

I can

It will up the MA recreational catch and mortality numbers by orders of magantude (hundreds of percent)...There is no doubt about this because when Maine instituted it's slot limit the rec catch for the state increased 1900% and they're fishery is tiny compared to MA.

So what does that mean? Can anyone answer that?

I can

It is likely when the MA SB Rec Fishery which oh by the way happens to be the largest on the coast is calculated to be taking so very many more fish, there will be a complete redistribution coast wide and every states mortality will have to be cut, most of all MA. It will be only a few short years of every little kid to old man catching the 20-26" fish that are easily caught before MA has to take a cut. Depending on the amount of mortality required to be cut, we will either take a seasonal reduction or a more strict size limit.

To be more clear...We will without a doubt based on good science be taking a hell of a lot more fish out of the stocks under the proposed conservation legislation.

Oh yeah...by the way...if MA eliminates it's commercial fishery it does not get to not use it and keep it. It might be allowed to do like NJ and give it to the rec catch but it is also posssible there would be a turf war amongst the states that do have a commercial fishery and ASMFC would redistribute the fish.

This will only matter for a year or two because the incredible spike in the MA Rec Catch because of the low end of the slot limit would crash the stock asessment and cause a total redistribution as mentioned above.

Sorry but the science behind this bill is truely "Junk Science"

Just my personal opinion today...watch for formal info in the coming months.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

Let's see here...I had a minute to breathe and that is now over...here is some comment/thoughts.

A slot of 20-26" + over 40" will do what? Can anyone answer?

I can

It will up the MA recreational catch and mortality numbers by orders of magantude (hundreds of percent)...There is no doubt about this because when Maine instituted it's slot limit the rec catch for the state increased 1900% and they're fishery is tiny compared to MA.

.

Your answer assumes nothing more is done to limit recreational kill. If catch/kill rates really did soar out of control, the state could simply implement a season like they have for many other fish (or much better make the slot limit more restrictive say 28-34", 46"+). Continuing to hammer large fish removes the most prolific breeders with the best genetic traits and the quality fish that drive recreational expenditures. A slot limit has worked fine for other fisheries in southern states.

[DENNIS STANK]

here in n.j. the herring runs of former years has drasticle declined,the bunker runs have improved with adults but few if any peanuts this fall.big fall fishwere few except for monster blue fish that showed up in april and ate everything that swam.stop the herring netting and give the fishery a chance to restock or they will all go the way of the nonexsisting whiting