The LA Tonight Show Orchestra, under Severinsen, was the greatest big band ever put together. Every member was a first class studio musician before being invited to play.
The trumpet section there included John Audino and Conte Candoli in addition to Doc and Snooky Young. I can't place the fourth member. Any one of them could have played lead in any big band. Steve Marcus on tenor sax was another monster player, and Tommy Newsome, for all the ribbing he took because of his oatmeal personality, was a fine musician and a world class arranger. He wrote the majority of the band's charts.
You'll never see another group of musicians of that caliber assembled again
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Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
It's a shame that as that generation who grew up with big band music have passes on/away, so has the music, or atleast any radio station that plays it.
funny to see this right now...we just got in from sitting in on my wifes friends radio jazz show at a local station....she spins all this cool old stuff...
cool, I am envious Matt.
There are still some really good newer bands out. This guy has a really good album out. The Scott Whitfield Jazz Orchestra called Diamonds for Nat. Super cd. It is a tribute cd to Nat Adderley, bro of Julian "Cannonball" A., and a fantastic musician in his own right.
Nice Dave. Thats what i am talking about. If that don't get your blood pumping nutin will. When you going to burn me some copies.
BTW did you ever get those albums back from you friend? If he didn't do it I can probably do it now as I got something to do it, when I get the time to read the instructions. No rush
"A beach is a place where a man can feel he's the only soul in the world that's real"
Nice Dave. Thats what i am talking about. If that don't get your blood pumping nutin will. When you going to burn me some copies.
BTW did you ever get those albums back from you friend? If he didn't do it I can probably do it now as I got something to do it, when I get the time to read the instructions. No rush
Yea I have them--on cd too. I keep forgetting to give them to you! Give me a call... and sure I'll burn the discs for ya
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The LA Tonight Show Orchestra, under Severinsen, was the greatest big band ever put together. Every member was a first class studio musician before being invited to play.
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a little caffeniated right now, but you have to be F'in kidding me!
Better than Duke Ellington, Basie? How about Gil Evan's work with Miles....ever hear the Birth of the Cool sessions??????? Ok how about Billy Eckstines band with a few young cats named Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie and Sarah Vaughn! inventing it and playing it better than it will ever be played!
Doc Serverinsen ! jazz guys would puke from laughter from that statement.
You guys need to expand your horizons on the jazz front, 90% of postings here about jazz features a list of the "white" all stars. I almost replied to the Tom Scott thread awhile ago - get some Coletrane, Dexter Gordon, Sonny Stitt, Cannonball Adderly. There are some fantastic white jazz musicians, but most of the true pioneers and geniuses were black. I've been playing and studying this stuff for 20 years. When it comes to music, I am a racist and proud of it. Want big band - nothing, ever, was as sophisticated and brilliant as Duke Ellington. Ever! For driving blues big band - Count Basie. For bop sophistication, Gil Evans (white guys) and any of his work. rant over.
Snooky Young, Doc's lead trumpeter, played in Basie's band. Many of the musicians in the Tonight Show band were alumni of name big bands before they joined. That band was a veteran group, they stayed together for almost the whole run of the show in LA, and they were tight. Those other bands went through a lot of personnel over the years, and their quality varied. Duke's band was a constant, for many years, but outside of Harry "Sweets" Edison and Cat Anderson, the brass section was nowhere near as good as the line-up of Snooky Young, Conte Condoli, John Audino and Chuck Findley, which was the pinnacle of the Tonight Show's trumpet section. And it got even better on the nights when Clark Terry decided to sit in. The A section of Duke's band was his sax section, with Paul Gonzalves (a native of Pawtucket, BTW) on alto, Johnny Hodges on tenor, and Harry Carney on baritone.
Don't forget that Doc's band played fill-in music for the audience between commercial breaks. You never saw some of their best playing. When they featured the band on the air, it was often to back another performer, and when they played solo, it was always a tune that Carson selected--and Johnny liked the old standards. It was commercial. But you can still play the socks off a commercial arrangement of an old standard, which is what they did. Big band ensemble playing is much more than a 12 bar jazz solo. Or even a 128 bar jazz solo.
Everyone used to laugh at Doc in the 70s. Me included. I had the same idiotic bias you do, that only black dudes can play real jazz. I grew out of it, as did most of the jazz cats then. Most professional musicians nowadays (I used to be one in a former life) give Doc the respect that he deserves. If you think he doesn't have jazz chops, and you think that his band was a bunch of hackers, your musical knowledge isn't what you think it is.
Last edited by Mike P; 05-29-2009 at 03:09 PM..
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
Everyone used to laugh at Doc in the 70s. Me included. I had the same idiotic bias you do, that only black dudes can play real jazz. I grew out of it, as did most of the jazz cats then. Most professional musicians nowadays (I used to be one in a former life) give Doc the respect that he deserves. If you think he doesn't have jazz chops, and you think that his band was a bunch of hackers, your musical knowledge isn't what you think it is.
idiotic bias, whatever. I've played jazz at the top of the Pru in Boston, Greenwich village and clubs all over San Francisco. Curious your resume? Wedding band? I've had drinks and coffee with some of the greatest jazz musicians in history. You made the comment that a band full of guys who had a cozy gig as "one of the greatest big bands of all time" which is bull%$%$%$%$. I never said they're hacks. But they aint even close to the pioneers that made big band. Touring nights all over the country, The arrangments were genius. Severinson may have been decent jazz, but he is nothing compated to those I mentioned.
I have many white jazz favorites, but very, very, very few are pioneers. Greats yes.
During the hey day of the bands, they played their sets and then indiviudally played all night gigs at Mintons and other clubs, these were clubs full of muscians playing for musicians, constantly improving their art. It was constant playing. You made the statement that a bunch of middle aged guys playing an afternoon gig for a TV audience and then went home to their couches was the greatest big band, not an informed comment.
Stop fighting over the subjective you two - before I knock you both out.
I read Dinah Washington's biography recently and bought about seven albums from her catalog. I really enjoy it - I like knowing some of the backstory too. I don't have much of an ear (zero, actually) but I'd like to be able to appreciate jazz at a decent level. I've also been starting to listen to Miles and Charlie Parker, Sarah Vaughn - great stuff.
I've got the album Clifford Brown With Strings and a rare track from the Newport Jazz Festival 1957 - Max Roach on Drums, Wynton Kelly, Paul West doing the Bessie Smith standard, Backwater Blues with Dinah on vocals....killer.
Clifford Brown did a lot work for a guy who only lived to 23 or so.
Joy Spring
IMHO - the best small ensemble jazz playing ever. Brown's solo is as brilliant as it gets. My favortite trumpet player and one of my favorite soloists.
LUV each other guys. Everyone is entitled to what they enjoy. It is all about sharin what you like. Even people with tin ears are welcome. Hell I have to listen to Hannah Montana more than I care too but she likes it so I live with it.
Max Roach = good stuff
"A beach is a place where a man can feel he's the only soul in the world that's real"
How bout a little swing! If you ever get a chance check these guys out! Guitarist/leader Doug Bell is a local guy that occasionally drops in at the local blues jams and shows us how it's done with a vintage tele.
All good stuff - I was lucky enough growing up in Newport to have seen all the big name big bands with their original leaders at the Newport Jazz Festival over the years - and the great singers like Sarah Vaughan, Ella, Big Joe Williams, etc etc...
In retrospect, I realize now what a privilege that was to have heard the very best in big band and jazz music live and in person
"There is no royal road to this heavy surf-fishing. With all the appliances for comfort experience can suggest, there is a certain amount of hard work to be done and exposure to be bourne as a part of the price of success." From "Striped Bass," Scribner's Magazine, 1881.
. No rush
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