Health insurance

[scottw]

it's not just the "providing" of health insurance for everyone, you have to consider that once you begin providing it you have little control over how much the providees will use it, compounding the problem that you mention above...when you are getting something from the government or your employer that you think is your entitlement, you really have no reason not to overuse it, after all, you deserve it, don't you?

[justplugit]

I can only tell you what the poll said.
Having said that even if it was only the over 60's, that were fed up and retired, there still wouldn't be enough Docs to fill the breech.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

RIIIIGGGHHHTT...
and 2 out of 3 dentists say...

I agree there are issues, but a line like that begs for a follow up..

Did they only interview doctors over 60?
I can't imagine the doctor who is 45, experienced, finally set-up and comfortable with a career, maybe has his loans paid off, to suddenly retire... right...

yep, Rock, it was probably like that CNN poll of Obama's speech where they polled 45% democrats and 16% republicans to find out what percentage of Americans were swayed by the messiah's words...

I know several young doctors that have closed their practices because they were tired of dealing with paperwork, insurance and regulatory nightmares....particularly related to medicare and the restrictions put on them...some just work for various clinics now and one volunteered at the VA for a while but found he spent most of his time filling out paperwork instead of doctoring...

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by scottw

it's not just the "providing" of health insurance for everyone, you have to consider that once you begin providing it you have little control over how much the providees will use it, compounding the problem that you mention above...when you are getting something from the government or your employer that you think is your entitlement, you really have no reason not to overuse it, after all, you deserve it, don't you?

Yup, that's why the people in Japan go to the Doc 4 times more than Americans.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by scottw

I know several young doctors that have closed their practices because they were tired of dealing with paperwork, insurance and regulatory nightmares....particularly related to medicare and the restrictions put on them...some just work for various clinics now and one volunteered at the VA for a while but found he spent most of his time filling out paperwork instead of doctoring...

Yes, having worked in the medical field and still having contact
with a few physicians, i know how they feel about medicine now,
let alone what it may become.
Many are going into ER Medicine because there are set hours and they
don't have the headaches of overhead and paper work.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

How come in the US we pay 6000-10000 for a stent, but in other countries it is like 1000-2000? There is something wrong with that. There is something wrong wrong with the health care system, when in the us an MRI cost 1200, but in Japan it is only 98 bucks. We are subsidizing everyone.


FRONTLINE: sick around the world: interviews: naoki ikegami | PBS

I find it interesting that the Japanese make HC "more affordable" by having a government version of "out of pocket" payment (Charge what payer can afford or go out of business). The gov. is a proxy representative of all the individual payers and insurance companies (of which there are many) and states this is what we can afford to pay. Accept it, or go out of business. What a concept!

As for Japan's best-in-world macro health indicators (infant mortality and longevity), it is demonstrably because of their lifestyle, homegeneous culture and lack of immigration problems, etc., NOT because of health care. Their need of health care is less pressing than U.S. citizens who are rather careless, in general, about their health, and who are a far more diverse, uncontrolled population. But survival rates of those undergoing U.S. medical procedures is tops.

Ikegami favors socialistic over market approach to HC only because, in his opinion, HC is a life and death situation. Actually, most HC is not, and what is could be covered by various private ins. cos.--catastrophic, health savings, etc.

Amazing that only 70% of Japanese favor the universal package--80% of US are happy with what they have.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by scottw

when you are getting something from the government or your employer that you think is your entitlement, you really have no reason not to overuse it, after all, you deserve it, don't you?

LOL, just reminded me of my Mother-in-law. About 20 years ago the government
was handing out cheese every month to senior citizens.

She had a decent income and needed cheese like she needed a hole in the head.
But every month she would line up with the others and brag she got her "free" Cheese.

Little did she know, she and i were paying for it with our taxes.

Ya get nothin for nothin.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by striperman36

Interesting writeup

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/op...stof.html?_r=1

See it anytime you go to the E-Room and wait

What first hit me as curious about this story was the sketchy account of Nikki having a job with health insurance and while on that job discovering she had lupus, then getting progressively sicker until she could no longer work, thereby losing her insurance. If, as stated, lupus can be controlled under a doctor's care, why wasn't that done while she was still employed with insurance?

Then, even more curious, because she couldn't re-acquire insurance because of the pre-existing condition, it was lack of insurance that caused her to die--NOT LACK OF MEDICAL ATTENTION. How about a little pro bono docs/hospitals. You do it all the time for others. Here's a young woman with a life threatening condition and you can't even offer her a cut-rate price (as is often done for uninsured in "insurance situations") and let her make monthly payments. Those might still be high, but there are, at least ways to make them--live at home, drive a used car, eat in, get financial help from parents, she doesn't have to "qualify" for those. And if you help her, she can be healthy enough to work and make the payments. But, no, it all must be INSURANCE, private, government, universal . . . we must all lower our quality of life so that some few can maintain theirs. That's an insult to people like Jimmy's parents.

[scottw]

I have a dear friend that lives just down the street from me...he has been a sole proprietor of a small modest business in Newprort for about 25 years and is in his early 60's, he did not have health insurance several years back when he discovered that he had non- Hodgkins lymphoma, he has received at least two rounds of treatments since and it may be three, the treatments caused degredation of his lower spine and nerve problems resulting in severe neuropathy requiring fusion, he was bed ridden for most of the early part of the year and since reovered only to the point that he can barely get around on his own, his galbladder quit on him late Sunday night and he's been in the hospital since having it removed on Sunday/Monday am and recovering...my point to all of this is that he had/ has no health insurance....he should have had at least purchased a major medical policy but for some reason chose not to, he is not wealthy and despite all of this he has never been refused treatment, he has not lost his house nor his business and is not in danger of doing so, there are a remarkable number of charitable organizations and foundations available to help with expenses for these situations, he has no family but has had help from friends with recovery and day to day activities...if you believe the rhetoric coming from the proponents of this so called reform my friend should be bankrupt, on the street having lost his home and business but it is simply not the case...it's simply scare tactics designed to create an atmosphere that will allow them to massively expand government and it's control and direction of the lives of individual Americans on a daily basis and has nothing to do with compassion... it's socialism....and it's the wrong way for America

this just in...
September 17, 2009
Gee - only a week later we learn Obama was wrong about insurance sob story
Rick Moran
He stood in the well of the House a week ago, looked right into the camera at the American people and lied.

No, not that lie. Not the laughable notion that illegals will be unable to buy into Obamacare. This is a lie where he indicted the entire US healthcare system by claiming someone died because private insurance companies are too greedy.

Jonathan Weisman of the Wall Street Journal has uncovered the real story of what happened to the man Obama claimed was dropped by his insurance company during chemo treatment because of an unreported gallstone:


President Barack Obama, seeking to make a case for health-insurance regulation, told a poignant story to a joint session of Congress last week. An Illinois man getting chemotherapy was dropped from his insurance plan when his insurer discovered an unreported gallstone the patient hadn't known about. "They delayed his treatment, and he died because of it," the president said in the nationally televised address.

In fact, the man, Otto S. Raddatz, didn't die because the insurance company rescinded his coverage once he became ill, an act known as recission. The efforts of his sister and the office of Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan got Mr. Raddatz's policy reinstated within three weeks of his April 2005 rescission and secured a life-extending stem-cell transplant for him. Mr. Raddatz died this year, nearly four years after the insurance showdown.

Obama aides say the president got the essence of the story correct. Mr. Raddatz was dropped from his insurance plan weeks before a scheduled stem-cell transplant.


No, the president did most assuredly NOT get the "essence" of the story correct. In fact, he got the essence wrong - completely.

The "essence" of the story is that the patient died because his treatment was delayed by greedy, heartless, insurance companies. Any boob knows that the point Obama was trying to make was that the patient's death was directly the result of insurance company actions.

But the patient's sister testified before Congress:


The patient's sister, Peggy M. Raddatz, testified before the House Energy and Commerce oversight subcommittee June 16 that her brother ultimately received treatment that "extended his life approximately three years." Nowhere in the hearing did she say her brother died because of the delay. Ms. Raddatz didn't return calls seeking comment.

[Joe]

[QUOTE=justplugit;712156]LOL, just reminded me of my Mother-in-law. About 20 years ago the government
was handing out cheese every month to senior citizens.

She had a decent income and needed cheese like she needed a hole in the head.
But every month she would line up with the others and brag she got her "free" Cheese.

Little did she know, she and i were paying for it with our taxes.

Ya get nothin for nothin. [/QUOT]

We subsidize the dairy industry in case there is a problem with cows getting sick or producing bad milk in one area of the country, they can quarantine or destroy them and the country can still have milk from other parts. Milk is a necessity for children, the subsidies insure that we always have a safe milk source.

[justplugit]

[QUOTE=Joe;712206]

Originally Posted by justplugit

We subsidize the dairy industry in case there is a problem with cows getting sick or producing bad milk in one area of the country, they can quarantine or destroy them and the country can still have milk from other parts. Milk is a necessity for children, the subsidies insure that we always have a safe milk source.

Good point on always having a safe milk source.
In the 40s and early 50s the subsidy helped the family farmer with milk
prices as, if i remember right, they were only getting 9-11 cents/GALLON.
It helped some of the hardest working people we had, working 14 hours/ day 365/a year round to stay afloat.

Now with a lot of big combines doing most of the farming I'm not crazy about subsidizing to protect them except maybe
your point.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by justplugit

I can only tell you what the poll said.
Having said that even if it was only the over 60's, that were fed up and retired, there still wouldn't be enough Docs to fill the breech.

There aren't enough doctors now in most areas with current demand. Some primary care physicians see over 100 patients in a day.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

There aren't enough doctors now in most areas with current demand. Some primary care physicians see over 100 patients in a day.

I've said this before. Most good doctors coming out of med school now, go into research because of the cost of malpractice insurance. Being a doctor isn't as glamorous as tv makes it out to be. Would you want to spend all day looking at lesions on peoples skin, or looking down someones throat while they're coughing all over you? Or better yet, how about having to tell parents that thier kid has a terminal illness. Most medical jobs, as people like JD who have worked in the field can attest, suck. And the money in being a doctor isn't what it used to be.

[Joe]

My sister's boyfriend is a 60 year old doctor - his average face time with a patient is 7 mins.
He gets $150 minimum for an office visit. His hobby is collecting cars.

[spence]

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

Obama: Legalize illegals to get them health care - Washington Times

AZZHOLE

I'd like to read the speach they're quoting from, because the quotes in the article linked don't support the headline.

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

There aren't enough doctors now in most areas with current demand. Some primary care physicians see over 100 patients in a day.

It will only get worse under Obama Care. I saw a poll that had 45% of Doctors leaving the practice if this passes.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

It will only get worse under Obama Care. I saw a poll that had 45% of Doctors leaving the practice if this passes.

You Lie!

-spence

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

You Lie!

-spence

You've just been rebuked. Now go and say hi to Mr. Wilson for me while you're in SC.

[buckman]

Here you go Spence.

Investors.com - 45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul

[Joe]

Yeah, and don't forget to tack up a Confederate Flag behind the stinky sofa of your double-wide at the Extended Stay Trailer Park - and bring us back some fireworks and tax free smokes.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

Here you go Spence.

Investors.com - 45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul

You are joking, right?

Let's do the math.

1376 doctors out of 800,000 doctors is a sample of .17%

This poll was done by mail, so we can assume somewhat that it's biased towards doctors who are opposed, as they are more motivated to voice their opinion. People who are content don't tend to be as vocal.

This "poll" appears to be contradicted by most other polls.

The 45% number is a (rather un-scientific) linear extrapolation by the author from the .17% to 100%.

I'm sure there are doctors opposed to reform, but this is complete nonsense.

It's like me talking to two people out of a thousand at a company, and because one of them liked my product that 50 people liked my product...

-spence

[buckman]

If your anything Spence, it's pedictable.
All polls are biased one way or the other. You could apply your points to every poll. The ones made during the day only poll those without jobs. The way the questions are worded effect the truth. Yada, yada..... You said "I LIED" and you were wrong, I told the truth.
Apologize to me please.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

If your anything Spence, it's pedictable.
All polls are biased one way or the other. You could apply your points to every poll. The ones made during the day only poll those without jobs. The way the questions are worded effect the truth. Yada, yada..... You said "I LIED" and you were wrong, I told the truth.
Apologize to me please.

Polls certainly can be biased, but the better polling organizations use scientific methods and can be pretty accurate.

The statistic you cited, 45%, is not from a poll, it's from the IBD writer of the article.

Perhaps Wilson thought he was telling the truth because he looked at the same phoney stats?

-spence

[buckman]

Wilson apologized and he was right

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishbones

You've just been rebuked. Now go and say hi to Mr. Wilson for me while you're in SC.

I've actually been in Greenville, SC all day

-spence

[Joe]

While you're in SC, stick a rainbow decal on one side of the bumper of your rented car and an Obama/Biden on the other and see how long it takes the cops to drag you out to an onion field and shoot your commie as_

[spence]

Originally Posted by Joe

While you're in SC, stick a rainbow decal on one side of the bumper of your rented car and an Obama/Biden on the other and see how long it takes the cops to drag you out to an onion field and shoot your commie as_

Greenville isn't that bad, it's a college town and aside from Bob Jones University is pretty hip.

I'm in the Charlotte airport currently, hour 3 of my 4-1/2 hour layover.

-spence

[Joe]

Originally Posted by spence

Let's do the math.
1376 doctors out of 800,000 doctors is a sample of .17%

So you divide da little numbah by da big numbah, and den you move dat little dot over to da right two numbas? Dats pretty smot!

[Karl F]

These officers undoubtedly attended sensitivity training at some point in their careers.



The Lexington, Kentucky Police Department reports finding a
man's body in the Kentucky River just west of the Clays Ferry Bridge.

The dead man's name will not be released until his family
has been notified.

The victim apparently drowned due to excessive beer consumption. He was wearing black fishnet stockings, a red garter belt, a pink g-string, a strap-on dildo, purple lipstick, and an Obama t-shirt. He also had a cucumber in his rectum.

The police removed the Obama t-shirt to spare his family any unnecessary embarrassment.


The Police do care.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Ikegami favors socialistic over market approach to HC only because, in his opinion, HC is a life and death situation. Actually, most HC is not, and what is could be covered by various private ins. cos.--catastrophic, health savings, etc.

An afterthought re socialistic solutions to "life and death" situations instead of free market solutions. Food, clothing, shelter, among others, are as much "life and death" situations as health care. Should we not, then, have universal food care, universal clothing care, universal shelter care, etc.?