MSBA Action Alert--Stripers Forever Bill Could Pass- Only One Hearing--This Thursday

[BasicPatrick]

Today they aregue that gamefish status means 1 fish at whatever sixe limit...a short time after that goes into effect they come back and say gamefish status means no take catch and release only...that is the play book....this is proven and our defense is responsible tru peer reviewed science based management

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

Today they aregue that gamefish status means 1 fish at whatever sixe limit...a short time after that goes into effect they come back and say gamefish status means no take catch and release only...that is the play book....this is proven and our defense is responsible tru peer reviewed science based management

Even better.

[trapperpierre]

..various trust fund/Foundation sponsored enviro/animal rights organizations are are waiting in the wings to pull the rug out of all SB user groups(and ALL types of fishing)..........we should focus on this tradegy in the making............

[intrepid24]

Originally Posted by trapperpierre

..various trust fund/Foundation sponsored enviro/animal rights organizations are are waiting in the wings to pull the rug out of all SB user groups(and ALL types of fishing)..........we should focus on this tradegy in the making............

as difficult as it may be, we need to be allies against such interests....

[MAKAI]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Yeeeeshh
That'll be a divorce just waiting to happen.
Watch your back.

[seabuggy]

The mortality rate from rec fishermen is greater than the total take of the commercial guys. Fly fishermen kill every fish they catch. These are facts from the study done by the state of Massachusetts, paid for by us. This commercial fishery has been in Mass for hundreds of years. Leave it alone.

[stripermaineiac]

There's an old addage that fits - Figures lie and liars figure.
There perverse mentality that prevade this whole arguement is the fish come last. I've been watching this thread and several others. I see the same arguements now as were there in the 80's. A moratorium was put in place due to the fish being last back then too. Greed and selfishness are still the same. Those of us that stepped up for the fish back then had to deal with the same as now. There are only a small number coast wide that commercial fish for the striper. The true numbers show that only a handfull are responsible for the bulk of the catch. Catch an release is so common now and people keeping only a couple fish a season is more the norm now. Sportfishermen cut back when needed as has always been the way.As do some commercials. But the loud greedy ones still want the buck irrigardless of the end results.New boats and motors ,surfing trips,cruises and new SUV's are the driving force as only a very small group really need the buck that comes from a few weeks of sales. But better to have those bucks till the fish are gone. MMMMMM like cod fisherman killing thousands of lbs of small cod in the nets to get the 400lbs a day yrs back till the fishery was all but destroyed.If the buck is that important to you then go for it. But stop lieing an say you care about the fishery.I haven't kept 3 dozen fish in 4 yrs.I spend more time fishing than most people do.I love the taste of the fish but not to the point of killing all that I can.And put the real numbers up.10 percent by a couple thousand to 90 for several million.10 percent of several million comes out to several hundred thousand. MMMMMMMM not several thousand so don't complain about unfair. The fish are whats important not the buck. my thoughts. Ron

[CowHunter]

StriperMaineiac, Im gonna have to respectfully disagree with you on the catch and release part and I think that is where you dont have an open eye too.... You think every sportsman is like you and practices catch and release??? I dont have a single charter that does catch and release, nor do any of the other guides I know, they kill their limit... As do most other people that I know... I may know of a handfull that primarily catch and release, actually ONE of the top of my head.... But your right, turn a blind eye to what is really going on and blame the comms, they are the sole problem. I am sure STriped Bass will rebound with a vengence If they did away with the Mass Com season... I am sure you honestly believe that...


Ive said all I have to say, Im with Artie on this... Later guys...

[MAKAI]

No way you are going away.
Charter trips "generally" take people who don't boat fish a lot, so of course they want, and get, to keep as much as they can . But for most of the fishermen I know (many ) we have boats and ways and means to get to fish. We don't fill the box, why bother you only need a couple a year. We fish for FUN, a release from the trials and tribulations of stressful lives in hard times, a hobby. If you were not making money off it, I'm sure would and do fish for fun also.
Few here are begrudging your career, charters are necessary so everyone can fish. We have no real issues catching fish, move around a bit you'll find them. But the shorebound guys ( the majority of fishermen) are not seeing fish as they used to. For lots of reasons, hence their concern.
Your manner of speaking to us is a bit pontificating and it rubs some people the wrong way, thats why you get the reactions you do. Not me though, I was a Southie project punk. We all speak like this. Try a different tact, you may find a different result.
Personally, I think the Basses foremost problems are in the very beginnings of their life, not how they end up killed.

[stripermaineiac]

Well as far as catch n release being so destructive if it were every waterway along the coast would be littered with dead floating stripers everytime there was a good bite going on. Funny that you never really see that after a good blitz. there are some but definitely noe wheres near as many as there should be by all the quote reports of mortality deaths due to release. as far as few practicing it well up here in Maine it's a must due to the limits. 1 fish a day period.20 to 26 in ot over 40 in.I see anglers all over the place releasing fish bass an blues. Remember it's not just charter fishermen out there.
As far as my post goes well this whole issue is basically about the commercial rod n reel in Mass. The other issues are still being fought. by-catch is a joke and does so much damage it's unbeleivable but that is another fight in another venure. I beleive NOAA is looking into that along with RFA an other groups. The buck did the stripers in in the 70's an 80's an is doing it again now.
Maine is just one example of the effects. With the huge ammount of bait up here the last few yrs we should be walking on stripers but we're not. Mackeral,squid,herring/alwives,bunker,sandeeels,smelt an so on.Just few stripers.
Our striper fishing has declined continually since the rod n reel seasons and shore gill netting were restarted to the point that large stripers are few n far between up here after the Nova Scotia stocks head back north in the early spring n summer. even with our growing populations from those fish stocked up here in the Kenebec an other waterways they've spread to aren't filling the gap made . Add the huge fish kills by netters and it's not a good picture.
Sportfishermen can only keep 1 or 2 fish at a wack. From what it used to be -keeping dozens of fish a night an keeping them all no matter how big or small.Yup more can and is being done and preached about. Just don't seem to hear any give ups from the commercial side of the hook. Just want want an want more bucks.If another larde school of stripers move into the Vineyard sound all the commercials will fish them till they're gone. Guys like me might catch a few but we'll still have to put all but 1 or 2 back in the water to fight again. an you'll never convinse me that stripers are more delicate than largemouth that get caught as much as 4 or 5 times a day and released again and still live.
as far as Stripers Forever goes well it's not a fly club just like Stripers Unlimited wasn't yrs ago. We had to deal with the retorick back then as now. It was about the buck then and it is so now.Short of not fishing at all many of us really can't go much farther in our steps for consevation. We rarely keep any fish but that really doesn't count as we only land a few thousand fish a season and release them. Ron

[dannyplug1]

Cow hunter I dont mean to be rude. But how are people on the other side of the issue supposed to take you seriously. I am not a marine biologist, but I do know that the fish on your postings will never live to breed again. Furthermore, the one time use of of legit harvesting vs killing is misleading ... using benign term is like calling sorta like calling a strip club a gentlemans club vs titty bar. Additionnaly it is not fair to the vast majority of rec fisherman who recessitate, and carefully realease bass and allow some one else the possibility of catching that fish again. When a commercial charter or a rec fisheman takes a bass he or she has insured that two things will happen. 1. That fish ]will not breed again. 2. No one islse will have the pleasure of catching that fish again. I agree that there will be some mortality associated with catch and release fishing. I use a minimal amount of hooks with no barbs and do not fish live or dead baits. There will be some mortality (farr below the amount in the Mass study in that study you fail to mention that the fish were gut hooked. However there is 100% mortality when any one keeps a fish. Furthurmore as you point out there are many more rec fisherman than commercials. In a democracy the needs of the majority are supposed to prevail over those of special interests (Commercial weekend fisherman) . One time use for a game fish has to become a thing of the past as has the whole sale slughter of the passenger pidgeon, buffalo, and market hunting for water fowl. Bass should be a strictly catch and release game fish!

[trapperpierre]

...do the math,,,,,,,10% killed by commercials.......90% killed by Recreational/charter..=100% dead

[dannyplug1]

Bass should be a no kill species for the forseeable future. Never happen too much money and too much greed.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by trapperpierre

...do the math,,,,,,,10% killed by commercials.......90% killed by Recreational/charter..=100% dead

The percent killed by whichever group isn't an argument. It all comes down to how many more bass are being killed than replaced.

[dannyplug1]

All that matters is that the fish are not replacing themselves as fast as we are taking them. I personally dont think they can stand up to the pressure that commercials, charters, and rec fishermen put on them. I think the answer is a total moritoriun like in the eighties. If we screw this up or allow ourselves to be controlled by special interest groups we may loose the bass entirely.

[trapperpierre]

....... continue the freeze on commercial..........reduce recreational/charter....no argument just reporting...just common sense.........just acknowledge the excesses of the Rec/charter group of anglers.............and back off from hard cap commercials who are a very small percentage of the ASFMC "death pie"of striper mortality.......and the available data indicates a wash of one fish recruited to the population.....one fish is removed as killed, eaten, mounted, or sold.......multiple use is the soul of America's utlization of our natural resources.....a intended resource grab under the guise of gamefish status is reprehesible....with good managment of striped bass is basically in place...........all striped bass user groups should concentrate on the bait issues as they relate to striper dietary needs......and should "pay attention" to various extremist enviro groups totally planning to end fishing as we know it....................everyone should save one's energy for the real battle that will be decending on all who participate with activities(sport, livelyhood) that has a live creature(i.e. fish) in the equation.....the massive funding that is available to the anti's to eliminate activities that include live creatures is frightening..................we all better wake up........all of us before it is to late....

[dannyplug1]

Commercial fishing as we know it is an anacronism. When the whiteman cam to this counry game was abundent and a person could feed there family with wild game. You cant just go out to a state forrest and shoot enough game to feed your family for the winter. Nor can you sell the game you shoot. People used to be able to do this the buffalo hunters feeding the rail road workers, the market hunters on the chesapeake. The vast majority of the food that we eat has been grown or raised. We cant continue to take from the seas at will we are just too good. We have destroyed habitat and the food sources of the bass. Look at the other commercial fisheries the government is buying back licenses look to the future we are depleating the fish in the sea at an alarming rate including the striped bass. This is a scientific issue which has been hijacked by the greed of a few vs the future. A wild Bass is too important to be sold like a pittyfull hatchery raised ten inch rainbow trout. Bass should be taken off the market and the charter industry, and the recreationals should not be allowed to take fish for the near future.

[trapperpierre]

........I hear ya cow Hunter...............

[BasicPatrick]

This Legislation was not a debate about Commercial vs Recreational...this legislation is now dead in the water...let's let it die...let's move on...let's debate when we have something reasonable to debate...why get into a debate over dead legislation

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

This Legislation was not a debate about Commercial vs Recreational...this legislation is now dead in the water...let's let it die...let's move on...let's debate when we have something reasonable to debate...why get into a debate over dead legislation

This isn't a debate over the legislation any more. This is a discussion over some of the items that were contents of the legislation - something that still affects striper fisherman.

This is a reasonable discussion - what needs to be done to protect the species. The current regulatory process is impotent.

[stripermaineiac]

well Pat this is a debate thats been going on since the 50's. You really think it's gonna go away just because its getting close to taking the price tag off the stripers for a while so they have a chance. Well don't see it happen. Funny thing is that a great many of us that are pushing for gamefish status now used to do commercial and saw the effect of our greed and decuded the fish was more important than the buck .Guys like Bob Pond who aren't with us anymore left a legacy with many of us to carry on. protect the fish not the fisherman so we'll always have it to fish for.
we protect the fish we end up protecting the fishermen too both sport an commercial. But it's okay as when the feds get fed up with our bickering they put a limit or a moritorium on the fish to do what we won't. Ron

[afterhours]

[QUOTE=stripermaineiac; Funny thing is that a great many of us that are pushing for gamefish status now used to do commercial and saw the effect of our greed and decuded the fish was more important than the buck .Guys like Bob Pond who aren't with us anymore left a legacy with many of us to carry on. protect the fish not the fisherman so we'll always have it to fish for.
. Ron[/QUOTE]


amen.

[animal]

Originally Posted by afterhours

amen.

Don,you know,as well as I that a large portion of the former comms you spoke of,were comms when there weren't any real catch limits,and the size limit was 16 inches.
I think we all know that recs kill far more stripers than comms,so gamefish status alone(without further limitations)is pointless.
Reread Dougs(Sashamy)posts.He's usually pretty spot on,and I agree with what he said here.

[afterhours]

bobby- i was a commercial fisherman for years and i believe i was part of the problem in the 80's. and today i have a vested interest in the condition of this fishery. i don't need scientists or bioligists to tell me the state of this fishery- i have eyes and have been a fisherman for 50 yrs and i remember history. gamefish status is only part of the solution i would like to see. i would also like to see a coastwide standard limit of 1 fish at 36". i believe those two measures would go a long way to restoring the fishery- yes i believe it is in need of restoration.

[BasicPatrick]

I agree the debate will go on forever. I just don't get what we are debating, what is the point. This thread is now so confused with so many separate issues that it is not going anywhere.

Seriously, I welcome and actually urge many threads and debates but what is the point of debate if the stated problem keeps changing and the potential solutions are not focused. Reads a bit like a lot of whining and sub agendas to me. LEts separate them out and have some intelligent discussions on individual subject matter.

I just hope some of the banter of those engaged in this debate turns into more action at future meeitngs. At the upcoming ASMFC we will hear the report on the stock asessment update and that is the time to voice our concerns. I hope some organizations actually show up. Obviously most people have to work but that is why we join clubs and raise money for organizations, correct?

Will Stripers Forever be there?

We'll see who shows up as I (MSBA) will be there, honoring Bob Ponds legacy of science based management and not fisherman's bull %$%$%$%$.

[Swimmer]

I think that we should ask the stripers to all stand still for as long it takes us to do a head count, then go from there.

[BigFish]

I agree Frank! Funny how they think they have any accuracy what so ever for stock assessment! What a joke! Any more than they can give us accurate mortality rates for catch and release!!! "Excuse me Mr. Striper......could you drop me a line in a day or so and let us know you survived the catch and release? We are compiling data for our reports and it would help!" Its all half assed estimates and unfounded "facts"! I never put much faith in those reports! They can just fudge the numbers any way it suits their needs!

[Sashamy]

The one factoid you all seem to be missing is that there is no hard tac for recreational bass fishing! Yet in all commercial fishing there is a quota which equals 65000 bass, yup they are over 34" inches and yes they may be breeding fish, but they have bred at least once and in most cases 2 or 3 times. My question to you guys is this...how would SF bill have helped the fish? answer in short it wouldn't. They are a greedy organization, and anyone that knows me knows that I do stand for the fish, for example I will not fish for baby tuna...do I begrudge the guys for doing it? at first yes I did just like you guys are begrudging the Ma commercial fisherman, but do i now? Nope...have at it...opinions are great but with opinions you need compromise, SF offered no compromise and even went as far as to say that the legistlation was not aimed at stopping commercial fishing...but line 4 of the bill read...prohibit the sale of wild striped bass in massachusetts that included the importing of bass from other states...that is completely selfish...do I personally think the bass is in trouble? Nope and I fish for them more than most of you...I start in the surf in late April and finish my charters around the end of September/early October...I never had a problem catching fish at all from the boat or surf...the surf was different last spring as the bluefish were thick early so I fished bass at nite and was extremely successful...sometimes you have to change your methods thats what makes it fun!

But to say that the massachusetts commercial fishery should end and Maine will have some fish is wrong. To say that the Ma commercial fishery is the problem is wrong as well. Charters for example kill a lot of fish...I take 12 a day for my customers if they want them and most of my clients want to release the smaller fish and keep the BIG ones...can u imagine that a person wants to keep a big fish...infact there are periods in the summer when I don't see a fish smaller than 30 plus inches...so lets do the math together...there are about 7 charter boats in barnstable...if each does 60 trips and limits out once a day at 12 fish that is 5040 fish, now sesuit has 7 boats thats another 5040 fish....rock harbor has 30 boats thats 21600 fish...this does not include doubles and is being constructed in a vacuum...that is half of the commercial quota and that was being modest in my numbers of trips...now add your weekend warriors...the charterboats on the south side....plymouth...green harbor...scituate...Gloucester...boston....do you see my point...our commercial season is a drop in a bucket and in no way a problem to any one of you...so I say please step off your high horse and stop blaming the commercial fisherman for what you say is the problem...the problem in the chesapeake is not massachusetts...it is chemical fertalizers...a moratorium is not going to stop farming is it?

Capt. Doug Amorello

[MAKAI]

I've stated a bunch of times that the biggest issue is the pollution, destruction of the natal estuaries.
Not how they end up but how they start.
How do you deal with that issue ?
Anybody ?

[Crafty Angler]

Lots of cogent points have been made here regarding the already defeated bill in MA but there are just as many contradictions in the arguments supporting each side of the issue - which is par for the course on this hot button issue

First, the science is supported and then questioned as a baseless guesstimate at best.

There have been posts documenting the plight of the fishery and then others would like to have you believe that it's never been better and any problem is more the result of sheer lack of skill on the part of the angler

Personally, I don't think that's the case and that opinion is supported by surfmen who have enough time in to be taken seriously.

They have no financial ties to the striped bass fishery as pinhookers, charter skippers, shop owners or their employees, tackle manufacturers or lecturers which would have to make those opinions suspect from the start. So consider the source first

IMNSHO, it is not the robust fishery it once was and that's not through the rose-colored lens of nostalgia

But removing comms from the equation would have been somewhat like treating a cancer patient with Tylenol and the relief - if any - would have been as short-lived as it was short-sighted. Just be ready - while it may be over for now in terms of the bill in neighboring MA going down in flames, you can fully expect SF to make another stronger run on it. A skirmish was won, not the war, they're not going away and I don't doubt that they'll be back with reinforcements to push their agenda

A broader, more holistic approach is needed because there is simply no one user group or single contributing factor at the base of the problem and a part of the recreational sector is also going to have to shoulder the blame

It's not the commercial guys, it's more of a case of 'all of the above' as has been noted here

Just a question I'd like to pose to you all in regards to the health and sustainability of the fishery, regardless of your stake - whether it's money or ego or a combination of both

If it were proven beyond the shadow of a doubt - after more accurate data is collected on the recreational impact on the fishery as a result of the license - would you be willing to support a complete moratorium on striped bass for a period of several years to aid in it's recovery and future health?

You could simply find another job, another sport or another hobby for a few years

Or you could still continue to fish if you wanted to target another species - like scup, blackfish or bluefish, for instance - or maybe go the freshie route

Yes or no?