stripers in fed waters

[Nebe]

Isnt one of the top charter boats down there called "poacher"? Sad.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Mr. Sandman]

call the CG every time you see something like that. Put them on speed dial. It is YOUR responsibility to turn in something illegal when you witness it. Not hearsay but witness it. Take a few photos, email them to the CG. The fact that no one calls is part of the problem. It is time to clean this crap up.

Last spring, Draggers pounding hard right off close off the beach "for squid" and the call went out from beach goers...the CG sent a plane, got their #'s, the boats took off and there nabbed back in Pt. Jude and Montauk. One was stopped heading back to RI...guess what he had on board...it wasn't squid. Lic's were lost.

[Swimmer]

I was told the EPO's who do have jurisdiction in all state waters did a number on charter boats in the EEZ also. State waters extend to the 200 mile limit does it not.

[Fly Rod]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

I was told the EPO's who do have jurisdiction in all state waters did a number on charter boats in the EEZ also. State waters extend to the 200 mile limit does it not.

State waters only goes 3 miles. There are areas where it could run 5-6 miles out.

The enviromental police(the state) cut a deal a few years back with NOAA to police beyond the 3 mile limit and they also did this with the coast guard, coast guard was always in a rescue mode prior to 9/11. NOAA had no way to patrol the coast or federal waters on their own.

[ProfessorM]

simply sickening information

[179]

Want to voice your concerns:
NC Division of Marine Fisheries:
Director's Office: Via E-mail: Catherine.Blum@ncdenr.gov
Marine Patrol OBX-Va-line email: Donovan.Twyne@ncdenr.gov

[MakoMike]

I heard from a reliable source that several of the charter boats that got ticketed for fishing at the sub buoy were fined $2,500. That, to me, is a pretty hefty fine.

[Jorge]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

I heard from a reliable source that several of the charter boats that got ticketed for fishing at the sub buoy were fined $2,500. That, to me, is a pretty hefty fine.

For my pocketbook it is also pretty hefty. But consider that they may get caught once a year but can get $1200.00 plus a day for 9-10 months a year, makes one think the fine is pretty low. It should cost them a weeks income anyway. Or $2500 plus no fishing for a week.

[CowHunter]

From Another Board:

Found this post on a Chesapeake Bay forum. My son is fishing tomorrow on a Va Bch charter. It will be interesting to see what he has to say.
Misbehaving Recs (and some Coms)


I thought about this for a while before posting. The longer I thought about it, the more I felt that it needed to be said.

Two Saturday's ago, I was off the VA and NC coast fishing for striper. We set the radar cursor on a 3nm distance, perpendicular to our southward movement. We ran just inside the 3nm limit all the way from VA Beach down to Corolla NC.

It was a beautiful day...almost a sheet of glass. Water temps were 36 deg when I passed the CBBT and they got warmer as I moved south. When I hit 40 deg water, I started seeing some bait and marks.

All the way down, we saw a lot of boats out about 3.5nm to 5nm from shore (I +put the radar cursor on them to check the distance). I was out 3nm and they were out another 1.5nm to 2nm.

Ran into the fleet just a bit south of Corolla. About 10 boats were inside the 3nm line, while it looked like about 150 were scattered from the line all the way out to about 5nm. I checked the radar cursor again to make sure I didn't make a mistake. Then I used the chart/radar overlay to see if I got the same distance on the chart. Both readings showed me at 2.985nm from shore (0.015 seems to be width of a pixel on my screen).

It simply blew me away to see such a large number of clearly illegal fishing going on. Yea, yea, I know...they were "targeting blue fish." If you believe that I have a bridge in AZ to sell. There were a few charters in the mix outside the line, but the majority were recs.

We talk conservation, but I guess far too many of us believe that conservation is for the "other guy," not us.

Guys...we have absolutely nothing to say about the commercial fishery, if we are going to be so flagrant about violating the fishing laws ourselves. We complain about the declining numbers of big stripers. We complain about Omega scooping up all the forage fish. We complain about the netters. But we had better start looking after our own misbehavior before we blame the "other guy" for the problem. I believe we [recs] are a big part of the problem. Based on what I saw two weeks ago, no one will convince me different.

I can kick myself for not having a pen and paper on board to write down boat names and hull registration numbers and calling them into the Coast Guard. Yesterday I bought a small whiteboard and dry-eraser pens to keep on board. From here on out, I won't leave home without it and the phone numbers of the MD, VA, and NC authorities. You can bet your sweet bippy that I plan to report them.

My $0.02

[CowHunter]

Im in no way Bi#$%ing, just shedding some light as to where there is a huge problem.... At least many can open their eyes and see whats going on.

[CowHunter]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

I heard from a reliable source that several of the charter boats that got ticketed for fishing at the sub buoy were fined $2,500. That, to me, is a pretty hefty fine.

If that was steep those guys wouldnt be doing it... For what? No fish inside 3 miles???

[trapperpierre]

......terrible the large breeding fish can't take a winter break along the mid Atlantic(resting/feeding before the return to spawning locus)....menhaden, mackerel, scup, butterfish, squid, being hammered.-no break for them either...coastal waters/spawning/nursery areas being defiled by poop from people/agricultural meat production....add to the mix non-point runoff of fertilizers/herbicides.............nasty.........what I need now is break from this depressive reporting(true though)........I like the fishing girls on 179 logo.......nice

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by trapperpierre

......terrible the large breeding fish can't take a winter break along the mid Atlantic(resting/feeding before the return to spawning locus)....menhaden, mackerel, scup, butterfish, squid, being hammered.-no break for them either...

While I agree, I'm sure many of them could say the same about us - just replace "winter" with summer.

[trapperpierre]

..what I have heard is the mid-atlantic winter concentration(s) of fish is a suicidal mass(es) of fish...90% outside the 3-miles...

[MakoMike]

$2,500 is a substantial fine for most of these charter boats. I'd venture to say that none of them are sailing everyday, and even if they are charging $1200 a day (which is really waaay up at the high end of the range) they certainly aren't making anywhere near that much.

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

$2,500 is a substantial fine for most of these charter boats. I'd venture to say that none of them are sailing everyday, and even if they are charging $1200 a day (which is really waaay up at the high end of the range) they certainly aren't making anywhere near that much.

i have to disagree
If this was the fine because you had a 27 inch instead of 28inch bass then ,yes, its a big fine
but if you are KNOWINGLY fishing in protected waters you should be jailed and your boat should be sunk on the spot

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Zeno

your boat should be sunk on the spot

Or your rock if that's your platform of a choice though marginally more challenging. Oh, no rocks in the EEZ, ner'mind

[PRBuzz]

From another board, fishing report NC:

Striped Bass fishing is hot on the Outer Banks of NC. We caught over 50 fish on Monday from 30-45lbs.

(I am not part of "we")

[WoodyCT]

All these females being lost from the spawning stock biomass will be the nail in the coffin for the bass.

There is absolutely no way any of those poached fish are figured into ASMFC mortality rate statistics.

Hence, ASMFC's stock assessments and forecasts are completely useless for any purpose other than wasting paper.

If you don't make your voice heard in protest of this horrific waste, or ASMFC's innacurate assessments and forcasts, then you have no right to complain when the stocks collapse,

which is exactly what will happen if the coastwide status quo continues.

[WoodyCT]

Drafted this and will be sending it to the NC and VA marine fisheries departments, not to mention anyone else I can think of.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

An Open Letter to the North Carolina Department of Marine Fisheries, 2/4/10

The regal striped bass has already once been saved from the brink of total stock collapse, but sadly it appears that North Carolina has already forgotten that page of U.S. fisheries history.

The rampant poaching of over-wintering striped bass from the EEZ (Exclusive Economic Zone) off the Mid-Atlantic MUST be addressed IMMEDIATELY to stop the wonton destruction of the coast-wide spawning stock biomass.

None of these poached fish are accounted for in mortality statistics, thus the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commissions assessment of the health and future viability of the striped bass spawning stock biomass is a complete farce.

North Carolina does not own these fish, but it is responsible for its citizens who fish for them. ENFORCE THE LAW!


Rest assured that I will not be spending my vacation dollars in North Carolina.

Jonathan Woodman

PS Below are a sampling of posts recently made on Striped-Bass.com. NONE PAINT A PRETTY PICTURE OF YOUR STATE OR ITS NEIGHBORS!


Nowhere on the Striper coast is there such total disregard of the EEZ as in Virginia / North Carolina. I don’t think people have any idea the damage being done by the poaching down south. The Charter Boats down there break the law every single day and brag about it. It is a shame. The entire biomass is concentrated down there in different schools, guys are running well beyond three miles, most 2 trips a day. If you guys just see the fish that are caught illegally and come in every day...
Report from VA Beach last sat:


[ edited by John R - one can easily believe that list is people actually poaching where we have no proof if it is or not - I'll add some comments later in this thread]

These were poached in one day... This is just from a handful of boats at the VA fishing center. A small percentage that even report their catch...
----------------------
I did hear that the Coast Guard nabbed 20 plus boats in one day this past week... Boys were at it the very next day. Heard they were max fines too.... Again- that’s second hand info, wish they would post it somewhere online. Charter Captains brag about it down there. Fished a tourney 2 weeks ago and the fish moved over the line the second day, only 8 fish were caught. Should of saw the Charter Guys loads that came in that were poached....

Rumor has it that a group of charter captains have a pool (rumor has it that each guy puts in a $100), and when the CG goes after one of them in the EEZ, the others high tail it out of there while the CG does there thing to the nabbed boat....then the boat that got busted takes the pool money to pay the fine. I believe they replenish the pool on a weekly basis......like I said, that's what the local rumor grapevine reported by guys who have fished in tournaments down there....

We were celebrating our catches while eating lunch, heading back to the dock with our limit before 12:00. Suddenly we found ourselves in a situation in which the mate and captain were telling us that we were way out past the 3 mile limit. They were thinking about dumping the catch because their spotters notified them that the marine police were on the way out. Moments later a marine police unit was on top of our boat. It was about to prepare to board us when one of the boats next to us began tossing their fish overboard. The cops left our boat and went directly to that boat and boarded it. Our captain steamed away and when we where about two miles away, we watched in disbelief as the mate gutted out our fish and tossed them over board.

At least 5 other boats from the Virginia Beach fishing center did the same thing. The ones that brought in fish were out there fishing where we were but they got in before the marine police arrived. We were sickened by the entire experience. The Virginia Beach Fishing Center is a fraud. A bunch of cheats. The captain told us it is just what they do, no big deal to them. Up to the point of the senseless waste of fish, we were having a great time.

People have to understand that the charter boats down there will sail every day even if they know the fish are well past 3 miles. Its not like the rest of the Northeast where you can still catch fish inshore of 3 miles at any given time, maybe not the big bodies of fish. Water temp and bait dictate where those fish go, they have stayed offshore for the majority of the winter. Why do you think they are trying to get the EEZ open to 12 miles down there???

There is no control over this down there... What DO YOU SUGGEST BE DONE???? Maybe the fishing brings too much business to the Virginia Beach Economy Down there in the winter time..... There are debates on this topic on other boards. The best thing to do is equip boats with GPS Systems, at who’s cost, and why exclude anyone up and down the coast rec, charter, or commercial? I know it has been mentioned up on the Cape about 2 years ago. Maybe Severe Zero Tolerance Fines.... People are not stupid, Think its pretty common knowledge that the fish have not been inside 3 miles down there in two weeks... Lots and Lots of Poached Fish, Guess we will see less up north this year!

[JohnR]

I have not been following this thread for a while but now I'll need to keep in the loop.

I edited out the names / towns in that list as this is not reliable enough to be presented as fact here. I'm not a lawyer or law enforcement so I don't know where the line can get crossed so I'm erring on the side of caution.

Ken, I don't doubt your skills or values in bringing that info up to post. My point is that is hard, maybe even irresponsbile, for us in a non "offical" capacity to bring those names on the site.

If this list was generated by a law enforcement office in an offical capacity, we could run with the alleged poachers. If this was generated by an official media outlet say the local paper or TV station, we could reference that.

Woody: While I am with you and support your comments, I removed the names for the reasons listed above and I ask you to do the same. At this point these are comments / hearsay / He Said She Said and probably don't live up to the level of acceptable evidence to bring forth...

If they are a poaching, I really DO hope they are nailed for it.

We've had times in the past where people's names have been brought up second and third hand and usually need to go an edit them. This is one of those cases.

Thanks

[Zeno]

I am sorry John, maybe where I grew up and the fact we lived in fear from cops has something to do with. When cops picked you up you could be gone for a year or two and no one would know what prison you were...granted I never want to go back to that...but knowingly poach on daily basis? I got nothing against boat guys, If I could afford one, I'd have one
I know this will seem harsh to some because after all, you cant equate people with "stupid" fish
but think about it
Someone harass your daughter and it’s a fine or jail.....you might think its excessive
does that give that someone a right to rape her too because you are away and no one will do anything about it? Because that’s what they are doing, raping the resource, right under our noses AND bragging about it
So yeah, sink their boats..... human greed has no limits. Sad thing is its all done by recreational community. We are our own worst enemies

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Zeno

I am sorry John, maybe where I grew up and the fact we lived in fear from cops has something to do with. When cops picked you up you could be gone for a year or two and no one would know what prison you were...granted I never want to go back to that...but knowingly poach on daily basis? I got nothing against boat guys, If I could afford one, I'd have one
I know this will seem harsh to some because after all, you cant equate people with "stupid" fish
but think about it
Someone harass your daughter and it’s a fine or jail.....you might think its excessive
does that give that someone a right to rape her too because you are away and no one will do anything about it? Because that’s what they are doing, raping the resource, right under our noses AND bragging about it
So yeah, sink their boats..... human greed has no limits. Sad thing is its all done by recreational community. We are our own worst enemies

Don't be sorry. I didn't live where you did but I did do a few trips in East Germany in the mid 80s so while I haven't lived repression, I've seen it.

I'm all for harsh penalties, enforced, comm or rec. Throw the book, take the boat (or truck). I'm OK with it.

[WoodyCT]

Check it out.

Virginia Beach Fishing Center

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by WoodyCT

Check it out.

Virginia Beach Fishing Center

What looks like almost 200 bass killed on Feb. 1 by the pictures. Look at the bellies on those fish.

[UserRemoved1]

I took the time to email to the addresses that 179 provided (thanks) DID YOU?

It has come to my and many others attention that there is a large amount of poaching going on off the coast of NC and VA in Federal waters/Exclusive Economic Zone. There seems to be no enforcement of the fishing regulations while these people are removing hundreds if not thousands of pre-spawning female striped bass (rockfish) from the biomass. It has been noted by a number of individuals that these poachers are actually running a weekly pool if caught the pool goes to whomever is stopped and fined. This is disgusting and would like to voice my displeasure at these actions.

It is my and many others views that this fishery is in trouble for a number of reasons, including the daily take limits that are passed by some states in excess. This fishery collapsed some years ago and it's going to happen again if something isn't done about it.

Some things for you to look at:

Virginia Beach Fishing Center I would invite you to scroll through their daily catches..knowing that many people have said in recent weeks that there have been no fish located inshore..that the main biomass of fish is located offshore and has been proven by charts and radar plots.

http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripert...ed-waters.html

The slaughter of big stripers not only continues but its kicking in high gear !!! :: Surfcaster's Journal Blog

Can someone step up to the plate here and do something? This is going to have a major effect on the future of this fishery.. and it's a shame to sit idly by and let it happen. Your state as well as others has a very large stake in the future of these fish. Tourism, etc will all be affected. I plan to have a discussion with the American Sportfishing Association and the marine fisheries council people on this subject also, but urge you to stop this wanton recklessness.

Sincerely,

Scott R Bullock
Owner
Salty's Wooden Lures
36 Deanna Dr
Uxbridge Ma 01569



Also cut n pasted off the VA fishing site....

"*STRIPER REGULATIONS POLL*

Currently there is a possible proposition to allow an extension along the Virginia territorial water limit from 3 miles out (from the coast line) to 12 miles out (from the coast line) during Striper season. This would allow catches of Striped Bass to be legal within 12 miles of the coast line.

This has not been passed yet, however this information will be shown when the meeting is held to aide in their decision of extending or not extending the territorial limit.

The current Atlantic Ocean limit in Virginia is 2 Striper per person, each fish must be 28″ or over, and all fish must be caught within the 3 mile limit from the Virginia coast line. Please choose which option you agree with.

*NOTE*
This poll has nothing to do with increasing the size or the bag limit of Striper. This is only for extending the VA Territorial water limit from 3 miles to 12 miles.

PLEASE CHOOSE ONE:

Make the changes to the territorial limit. Change the regulations. 2 fish per person,
28″ +, and up to 12 miles off the beach.

Keep the regulations as they are.
No change is required. 2 fish per person,
28″ +, and within 3 miles off the beach."



Va Marine Resources contact: John.Bull@mrc.virginia.gov

VMRC Contact Information

[Doublerunner]

I don't think a few letters is going to do much more than make us feel better. I'd think that a thousand person or more demonstration at the NC and/or VA state house would bring a lot of media attention...

[JohnnyD]

There is one way to get people to act *and* get people outraged - try to get news coverage of what's going on down there. Fox loves stories where the government isn't enforcing the law and it's costing taxpayers money.

There's nothing quite like a reporter looking for their next big break to get their head poking around and doing investigations.

[Mr. Sandman]

I think the only way to get anyone motivated is a complete coast-wide shutdown. Letters, meetings, protests will not and have not worked that great and are short lived at the best. Shut it down across the board, then and only then will you get real change...and in the meantime while we are deciding what to do the fish will be protected. Shut it down across the board. No take for anyone anywhere anytime. There is no talking to fisheries persons anymore, they clearly have no foresight.

[PRBuzz]

People from the North trying to write to VA/NC isn't going to get very much sympathy. The ears you need are the Representatives/Senators from ME, NH, MA, RI, CT, NY, and even NJ. It is a Federal law being violated. Extending the 3 mi to 12 mi limit will also require Federal approval.

Anyone know if the Jr Senator from MA is aware of this issue and where he might stand? 2.5 years passes quickly and there seems to be a number of votes on this site that lean Brown's way.