Liars

[RIJIMMY]

oops, this was left out of all the "bipartisan" crap from Obama and Pelosi

GOP HEALTH CARE SUMMIT IDEAS: Following a bipartisan health care summit last month, Obama announced he was open to incorporating several Republican ideas into his legislation. But two of the principle ones — hiring investigators to pose as patients and search for fraud at hospitals and increasing spending for medical malpractice reform initiatives — did not make it into the legislation. The legislation incorporates only one, an increase in payments to primary care physicians under Medicaid, an idea mentioned by Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa.

[spence]

How does that make him a liar?

I believe there are a lot of items in the bill that have been proposed by or supported by Republicans either past or present.

As for resisting undercover investigators, I'd wager this has more to do with the influence of the health care industry than any ideological interests. While people keep calling this bill socialism, it actually stands to put a lot of money into the pockets of the private health care companies.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Obama and Pelosi came out after the big hoopla over the bi partisan meeting. they then quoted 3 ideas that republicans brought up. It received a lot of press. Now- it looks like only one idea was include.
So, that big meeting was just a lie, to BS most Americans into thinking that Obama was interested in taking in Repub ideas. It was a well orchestrated snow job aka a lie.

[fishbones]

Spence, out of curiosity, how much of the bill did you read? You commented about it as being centrist in nature in another thread, which led me to believe you were pretty familiar with it's contents. It's a pretty big bill which would take a lot of time for someone to even scan through it. With you having a full time job during the week and being a weekend Cosmonaut, I just don't see how you could be that informed about it.

[RIJIMMY]

here you go, all over if you search for it. Maybe Liar is too harsh, he said he "offered". So that makes him a skank, sneak, cheay, etc. After the summit he was all over lauding the ideas but dissed them in the final bill. COWARDLY LIAR is more approrpitate. But dont worrk most Americans are too dumb to notice.

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama offered Tuesday to include four Republican initiatives in his health care bill, but GOP leaders were unenthusiastic as Democrats prepared a last big push to get legislation passed.
Among the Republican ideas Obama said he's considering — ideas that GOP leaders offered at last week's bipartisan health care summit — one involves medical professionals conducting undercover investigations of health care providers that receive reimbursements from Medicare and Medicaid.

Another would provide $50 million for states to pursue alternatives to medical malpractice litigation, a major Republican initiative.

A third would consider higher doctor reimbursement "in a fiscally responsible manner" under Medicaid, the state-federal health insurance program for lower income people. A fourth would encourage the use of Health Savings Accounts in conjunction with high-deductible health plans.






Read more: Obama offers to include GOP ideas in health bill | McClatchy

[RIJIMMY]

Obama To Insert Four Additional Republican Ideas Into Final Health Reform Bill
President Obama has written a letter to Congressional leaders outlining the areas of agreement between Democrats and Republicans on health care reform. Obama also listed at least four Republican ideas that he wants to include in the package of fixes he is expected to unveil tomorrow afternoon.

Obama’s proposals are mild in nature and are unlikely to please start-over Republicans or offend progressive Democrats. The four ideas strengthen bipartisan provisions that are already part of Obama’s proposal and the Senate health care bill. The big ticket item is Obama’s support for increasing Medicaid rates to Medicare levels. That provision, which was included in the House health care bill, could cost north of $57 billion over 10 years and will certainly catch the eye of the American Medical Association and generate praise from both Democrats and Republicans:

1. Undercover waste/fraud/abuse investigations: “Senator Coburn had an interesting suggestion that we engage medical professionals to conduct random undercover investigations of health care providers that receive reimbursements from Medicare, Medicaid, and other Federal programs.” EXISTING PROVISIONS: Obama’s plan invests in a Comprehensive Sanctions Database, expands access to the Healthcare Integrity and Protection Data Bank, among other provisions. The Senate bill also invests in preventing fraud, waste and abuse.

2. Additional grants to states for tort reform: “I am open to including an appropriation of $50 million in my proposal for additional grants. Currently there is only an authorization, which does not guarantee that the grants.” EXISTING PROVISIONS: The current legislation already authorizes demonstration projects.

3. Increasing Medicaid reimbursement rates: “At the meeting, Senator Grassley raised a concern, shared by many Democrats, that Medicaid reimbursements to doctors are inadequate in many states…I’m open to exploring ways to address this issue in a fiscally responsible manner.” EXISTING PROVISIONS: The House health care bill gradually increased Medicaid reimbursement rates up to Medicare levels, but the Senate legislation did not include this provision.

4. Strengthen high deductible provisions: “I believe that high-deductible health plans could be offered in the exchange under my proposal, and I’m open to including language to ensure that is clear.”
EXISTING PROVISIONS: The current Senate bill allows young Americans to enroll in high deductible coverage and the exchange also offers so-called bronze-level plans that charge higher deductibles and co payments but offer lower premiums. Bronze policies would have to cover the “essential benefits” specified in the legislation and would likely be more comprehensive than policies available in the existing nongroup marketplace. The catastrophic plans for high adults would be required to offer preventive coverage at no cost sharing

[RIJIMMY]

ok, for those that can't read..........




Obama is full of poo poo

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Obama To Insert Four Additional Republican Ideas Into Final Health Reform Bill

I'd think you'd really want to know how many Republican favored ideas were in the bill to begin with. A lot of this came from the Senate who actually were acting in a bi-partisan manner before the GOP hit squad told grandma she was going to die in hell.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

I'd think you'd really want to know how many Republican favored ideas were in the bill to begin with. A lot of this came from the Senate who actually were acting in a bi-partisan manner before the GOP hit squad told grandma she was going to die in hell.

-spence

your changing the topic, Obama came out after the summit and made every indication that he was including ideas from repubs that where discussed in the summit. It was crap.

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Spence, out of curiosity, how much of the bill did you read? You commented about it as being centrist in nature in another thread, which led me to believe you were pretty familiar with it's contents. It's a pretty big bill which would take a lot of time for someone to even scan through it. With you having a full time job during the week and being a weekend Cosmonaut, I just don't see how you could be that informed about it.

I've read a bit of the actual bill and have rounded my opinions from diverse and trusted sources. As you suspect, I'm a pretty important person and don't have time for idle reading.

Centrist is a relative position. The middle today already accepts a hybrid government/free market system that has been repeatedly endorsed by both parties. Even under Bush Republicans passed a massive Medicare entitlement that was inherently anti-free market in principal.

The lack of a true public option to provide competition and the many concessions to the health care industry keep this bill from pulling too far left, even if it does mandate coverage which clearly is a left of center element.

Ultimately there's a negotiated trade off underneath all of this...

The Government gets near universal coverage...while the private Health Care Industry gets to make Americans pay premium for prescription drugs and adds millions of customers to it's portfolio.

So by some accounts both the Government and Free Market have wins and losses which doesn't pull us that far from where we are now.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go influence the lives of others.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

Ultimately there's a negotiated trade off underneath all of this...

The Government gets near universal coverage...while the private Health Care Industry gets to make Americans pay premium for prescription drugs and adds millions of customers to it's portfolio.

So by some accounts both the Government and Free Market have wins and losses which doesn't pull us that far from where we are now.


-spence

except that premiums will rise for those that have insurance (80% of the pop) the deficit will rise and taxes will too. Other than screwing the WORKING taxpayers, its win/win!

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

except that premiums will rise for those that have insurance (80% of the pop) the deficit will rise and taxes will too. Other than screwing the WORKING taxpayers, its win/win!

The bill contains measures to slow the rate of premium increases for existing policies...how slow is certainly open to debate.

-spence

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

The bill contains measures to slow the rate of premium increases for existing policies...how slow is certainly open to debate.

-spence

I know you're kind of a big deal, but could you take the time to answer one question for me?

Where is all the money coming from to pay for this government run health care?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by fishbones

I know you're kind of a big deal, but could you take the time to answer one question for me?

Where is all the money coming from to pay for this government run health care?

Spence is a lot like Biden, he really has no idea what he's talking about but just keeps talking because he likes to hear himself talk, he's usually wrong and leaves you wondering if he's really that stupid or just evil he's only a big deal in his own mind

the answer is the same as for all of the other government entitlements and unfunded obligations

[buckman]

I'm on page 1230....can anyone save me some time and point out where they bring up "cost limiting measures". I think they might have missed this part.

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishbones

I know you're kind of a big deal, but could you take the time to answer one question for me?

Where is all the money coming from to pay for this government run health care?

A lot of it from taxing the wealthy.

If you'd read the bill you'd know that.

-spence

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by spence

A lot of it from taxing the wealthy.

If you'd read the bill you'd know that.

-spence

You read all 2700 pages ?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

A lot of it from taxing the wealthy.

If you'd read the bill you'd know that.

-spence

That would be everyone making over 200K. Hell, I think they are paying for just about every CHANGE Obama can dream up.

Keep dreaming Spence. My brother works for the DPW and he figured change just cost him $1800 a year

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

You read all 2700 pages ?

He has the special readers digest version with pictures that they also give Biden. It has a unicorn and rainbow on the cover

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

A lot of it from taxing the wealthy.

If you'd read the bill you'd know that.

-spence

Clearly, I've read more of the bill than you. I have to admit that when you use vagaries like "a lot of it", it sounds like the wealthy are going to be supporting the rest of us. In typical Spence fashion though, you don't provide any real numbers because you don't know them. The wealthy will only be paying a higher tax on Medicare. If you read the bill, you'd know that.

Do you know anything about the mandates in the bill that could raise the price of premiums? Maybe you wouldn't mind having a plan that requires you to have coverage for infertility treatments or wigs. When the government mandates that a plan can only legally be sold in a state if it has certain mandates, it's effectively forcing people to pay more for their coverage.

[JohnnyD]

I guess lying and hypocrisy exists on both sides of the aisle....

Stimulating Hypocrisy: 114 Lawmakers Block Recovery While Taking Credit For Its Success

Sometimes you're like an NBA referee, you claim to be unbiased yet fouls appear to be called disproportionately.

(I'm in the middle of Tim Donaghy's book.)

[Bronko]

-Big Government.
-A Bureaucracy the likes of which we have never seen.
-Tax the life out of the earners, employers and entrepreneurs of this country.....

-and most of all.... "Control the people."

Breitbart.tv Shocking Audio: Rep. Dingell Says ObamaCare Will Eventually ‘Control the People’

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Bronko

-Big Government.
-A Bureaucracy the likes of which we have never seen.
-Tax the life out of the earners, employers and entrepreneurs of this country.....

-and most of all.... "Control the people."

Breitbart.tv Shocking Audio: Rep. Dingell Says ObamaCare Will Eventually ‘Control the People’

We're arguing this over at http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripert...socialism.html

Still seems out of context. Maybe it isn't, but I'd like to hear a sentence or two after the abrupt stop. Is the entire audio available somewhere?

[scottw]

The comment by Dingell begins 6 minutes 23 seconds into the twelve minute-long podcast of his interview on Smith's radio show. The podcast is titled "Congressman John Dingell tells Paul W. Smith he is thrilled with the passage of the health care bill." It can be streamed or downloaded as an mp3 audio file from this page at WJR's Web site

News/Talk 760 WJR

you're welcome

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by scottw

The comment by Dingell begins 6 minutes 23 seconds into the twelve minute-long podcast of his interview on Smith's radio show. The podcast is titled "Congressman John Dingell tells Paul W. Smith he is thrilled with the passage of the health care bill." It can be streamed or downloaded as an mp3 audio file from this page at WJR's Web site

News/Talk 760 WJR

you're welcome

Sweet. Thanks.

[TommyTuna]

Originally Posted by spence

I've read a bit of the actual bill and have rounded my opinions from diverse and trusted sources. As you suspect, I'm a pretty important person and don't have time for idle reading.

Centrist is a relative position. The middle today already accepts a hybrid government/free market system that has been repeatedly endorsed by both parties. Even under Bush Republicans passed a massive Medicare entitlement that was inherently anti-free market in principal.

The lack of a true public option to provide competition and the many concessions to the health care industry keep this bill from pulling too far left, even if it does mandate coverage which clearly is a left of center element.

Ultimately there's a negotiated trade off underneath all of this...

The Government gets near universal coverage...while the private Health Care Industry gets to make Americans pay premium for prescription drugs and adds millions of customers to it's portfolio.

So by some accounts both the Government and Free Market have wins and losses which doesn't pull us that far from where we are now.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go influence the lives of others.

-spence

8,944 posts of equivication, drivvle & parsimonious lecturing -oh and influencing people...wow...Is your head on tight?

TT

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by TommyTuna

8,944 posts of equivication, drivvle & parsimonious lecturing -oh and influencing people...wow...Is your head on tight?

TT

And people criticize me for getting the thesaurus out.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

And people criticize me for getting the thesaurus out.

we're just surprised when you go polysyllabic on occasion

[buckman]

If this bill was going to stick it to the insurance companies ( the ones that are in bed with the Republicans) why did the stocks of those companies go up after the bill was signed???????

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by buckman

If this bill was going to stick it to the insurance companies ( the ones that are in bed with the Republicans) why did the stocks of those companies go up after the bill was signed???????

I didn't know this was a bill to "stick it to the insurance companies" who are in bed with Republicans, or is that how Rush and Hannity describe it?

Also, you put a lot of focus on stock prices and what the market does. The price people pay for a stock is merely what the investing population feel is a fair price. To answer your question, the stocks of those companies probably went up because people are *speculating* that this will increase their income. Probably a good bet considering an additional 32 million people will be insured and the public option doesn't exist.