Why can't teachers/cops live with 401(k)'s instead of pensions?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I did indeed read it. And from what I read, there was a concern with benefits paid to all federal workers, not salaries paid to IT contractors.

I was drawing a comparison to the Federal vs. Private sector salaries in the IT field. That the federal salaries are below or equal too private.....not grossly above.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I was drawing a comparison to the Federal vs. Private sector salaries in the IT field. That the federal salaries are below or equal too private.....not grossly above.

I saw that, and I found that interesting. In your area (are you in Mass?) do IT workers in the private scetor get guaranteed pensions? If not, that's something you need to consider when comparing public to private. If public salaries are 5% less than the private scetor, but they get pensions, then in my opinion total compensation is much higher in the public sector.

I was talking about teachers. Here in CT, public schoolteachers make more than double what private schoolteachers make, with far inferior results (although you can't just compare test scores obviously, because private schools select who to let in).

[Fishpart]

Read an article several weeks ago ON AVERAGE public sector employees are compensated 120% of private sector employees and when benefits are included (sick time, vacation, retirement) it jumps to 150%.

Sure ONE GUY can make more in the private sector, but as a whole public employees make way more.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I saw that, and I found that interesting. In your area (are you in Mass?) do IT workers in the private scetor get guaranteed pensions? If not, that's something you need to consider when comparing public to private. If public salaries are 5% less than the private scetor, but they get pensions, then in my opinion total compensation is much higher in the public sector.

I was talking about teachers. Here in CT, public schoolteachers make more than double what private schoolteachers make, with far inferior results (although you can't just compare test scores obviously, because private schools select who to let in).

total compensation really needs to be considered, the numbers for RI state employees was released a while back showing "total compensation" and it was mind numbing( I used to think of this everytime I'd drive through the Newport Bridge toll booth where I think the average worker was making in excess of 60 grand+++ plus all the other stuff and I'd have to wait for them to finish stuffing the sandwich in their mouth before I could get my reciept, EasyPass is great)....I just read an article in the WSJ talking about the Utah plan for revamping the pension system going to a 401K and the government contributing 10-12% a year...one of the first comments said 10-12%??? the private sector employers have to factor in all costs for total compensation to determine your value or overall compensation level as an employee, something tells me that governement simple looks at compensation levels and then piles on the benefits without regard to how they're going to pay for it in the future...thus our insolvent current state...

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I saw that, and I found that interesting. In your area (are you in Mass?) do IT workers in the private scetor get guaranteed pensions? If not, that's something you need to consider when comparing public to private. If public salaries are 5% less than the private scetor, but they get pensions, then in my opinion total compensation is much higher in the public sector.

Those that are grandfathered in recieve a pension, Government employees hired after 1984 are enrolled in FERS, which is comparable to a 401k (not exactly, but comparable).

http://www.opm.gov/forms/pdfimage/RI90-1.pdf

Most of the guys I work w/ are not grandfathered in, so they are comparable to private sector

[scottw]

[QUOTE=The Dad Fisherman;828892]Those that are grandfathered in recieve a pension, Government employees hired after 1984 are enrolled in FERS, which is comparable to a 401k (not exactly, but comparable).


FERS is running a cash flow deficit. This is a new phenomenon. FERS is converting itself into a defined contribution plan that will address some of the problems. However the cash drain experienced in 2010 will not be reversed in the foreseeable future. It will increase.


January 2011
factor in :
Even controlling for the effects of census employment, federal employment has increased constantly throughout the recession and into today. Since January 2008, net of census hiring, the federal government has grown by 3.5 percent, gaining 98,000 jobs.


What about employment in the rest of the economy? Since the beginning of the recession, state governments have added 42,000 employees to their payrolls. Local governments have cut 258,000 jobs (1.7 percent of their January 2008 workforce). Overall, total government employment has shrunk by 0.5 percent since January 2008. And the private sector has lost 7.2 million jobs, or 6 percent of its January 2008 workforce.

if you are perpetually on unemployment...you are essentially a government worker...are you not?


read about the new bureaucracies, offices, commissions, buildings, titles, and on and on.... jobs being "created" to institute and manage Obamacare and your head will really spin

[scottw]

Our view on public pensions: Lavish benefits hurt states - USATODAY.com

The Pew Center on the States estimates that state and local governments have promised $3.35 trillion in benefit plans and have underfunded these plans by $1 trillion.

In some states and localities, it is not uncommon to see pensions of 2.5%-3% of a worker's final salary, times the number of years worked. At 3%, a worker can retire in his or her 50s, after 33 years of service, and continue drawing the same income. With deals like this, plus retiree health benefits, New York City now spends $144,000 a year for a sanitation worker, according to the Manhattan Institute think tank.

here's govmt for ya...
News Tribune exclusive: State hires hundreds despite hiring freeze | Government / Politics - The News Tribune


News Tribune exclusive: State hires hundreds despite hiring freeze

Officially, there is a hiring freeze on the books. But state agencies have won exemptions that have opened the door to 1,700 hires since the freeze began in March, a News Tribune analysis found.

like the Obamacare exemptions...

I bet you can guess which states continue to hire workers to the payrolls and which are being more judicious