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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi: |
01-19-2011, 02:32 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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just the beginning
Union Protesters Overwhelm Security and Barge Into Banking Meeting
Posted on January 19, 2011
A group of about 200 union protesters overwhelmed security at a Washington, D.C. hotel and barged into a mortgage banking meeting on Wednesday, according to the Huffington Post.
HuffPo says protesters dressed in hardhats and overalls yelled “Where are the jobs?“ and ”Where is the money?“ as they pushed through security in a ”scrum” and burst into a conference room of stunned bankers. The protest was reportedly aimed at the Pulte Group — which protesters say has received $900 million in tax breaks but has not created a sufficient number of jobs.
“Those tax breaks were supposed to create jobs,” Wayne Peworchik, one of the protesters, told HuffPo. “That was President Obama‘s and Congress’s intent.
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01-19-2011, 03:01 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
Union Protesters Overwhelm Security and Barge Into Banking Meeting
Posted on January 19, 2011
A group of about 200 union protesters overwhelmed security at a Washington, D.C. hotel and barged into a mortgage banking meeting on Wednesday, according to the Huffington Post.
HuffPo says protesters dressed in hardhats and overalls yelled “Where are the jobs?“ and ”Where is the money?“ as they pushed through security in a ”scrum” and burst into a conference room of stunned bankers. The protest was reportedly aimed at the Pulte Group — which protesters say has received $900 million in tax breaks but has not created a sufficient number of jobs.
“Those tax breaks were supposed to create jobs,” Wayne Peworchik, one of the protesters, told HuffPo. “That was President Obama‘s and Congress’s intent.
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Will the media blame Sarah Palin's bulls-eye chart?
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01-19-2011, 08:33 PM
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#3
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Old Guy
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 8,760
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Cool about time.
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01-19-2011, 09:41 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 5,238
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01-19-2011, 11:02 PM
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#5
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lobster = striper bait
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Popes Island Performing Arts Center
Posts: 5,871
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Using Flint, MI as an example of "just the beginning" is like saying murdermore is proof that crime is increasing.
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Ski Quicks Hole
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01-20-2011, 04:46 AM
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#6
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........
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 22,805
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hopefully it was non violent...
someone has to let these Bankers know their position is unacceptable
because the Government who was paid to tell them failed to do so
in an expedient fashion.... Ended up giving them free bailouts (loans) that they later paid back with no interest.
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01-20-2011, 06:10 AM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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this is what they were really upset about
The Laborers' International Union of North America, the Sheet Metal Workers' International Association, the International Union of Painters and Allied Trades and the AFL-CIO organized the protest, union members said. They say Pulte has laid off workers and question whether the Michigan-based company has created jobs. The labor groups are also upset that Pulte uses contractors that don't hire unionized workers.
Chanting "where are the jobs?," the protesters unfurled a banner across the stage, which said "PULTE: WHERE IS THE $900 MILLION".
Tom Deutsch, the director of the American Securitization Forum, then tried to break the ice before a panel discussion began. [B]"For the record, I don't know where the $900 million is," he said, underscoring the confusion of most bankers over the precise point of the disruption.[/B)
The protest led to some head-scratching among attendees, who wondered why a mortgage-banking conference was targeted. The protest appeared to be triggered by the presence of Debra Still, chief executive of Pulte's mortgage unit and chairman of the mortgage bankers' newly created council on residential mortgage servicing issues.
Unions have been pressing Congress to assess how Pulte spent about $900 million in government tax breaks meant to help spur job creation and avoid layoffs.
Chanting "where are the jobs?," the protesters unfurled a banner across the stage, which said "PULTE: WHERE IS THE $900 MILLION."
Pulte spokesman Jim Zeumer said the company typically uses contractors that are "small, independent companies that are the engine of our economy."
"Union comments and protests are merely the latest publicity stunt in their years-long 'corporate campaign' against Pulte Homes, other large home builders and the homebuilding industry as a whole," Zeumer said in an emailed statement. "At the heart of the issue is the unions' need to increase membership."
After the protesters left the room, John Courson, the MBA's chief executive, apologized to the audience and acknowledged "a lot of concern, a lot of pain" over the housing-market bust. But he said the point of Wednesday's conference is to help understand how to improve the broken mortgage system.
Pulte spokesman Zeumer said the company realized a $917 million tax benefit in 2009 due to the 2008 economic stimulus law, which changed tax laws to extended the carryback period of net operating losses. "In 2010, PulteGroup invested more than $1.0 billion in new land and development to support its ongoing operations, " he said. "We continue to invest in the business to capitalize on market opportunities as they develop."
-By Alan Zibel, Dow Jones Newswires;
since they were in D.C. they should have been told to go ask Obama where the jobs that HE promised are and where all the money went
Last edited by scottw; 01-20-2011 at 06:20 AM..
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01-20-2011, 09:02 AM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Classic, inevitable outcome of the liberal entitlement system. The union guys are upset about lack of work. Instead of, i don't know, doing somehting about it themselves, they look for someone else to blame.
Instead of waiting arond like toddlers for someone to hand them work, why don't they go out and get work? Answer...they are too dependent on the union, and on da gubmint. They don't know how to help themselves.
There's liberalism...take a group of people, get them completely addicted to a sense of welfare and entitlement. Then, you secure their votes forerevr by convincing them that the big bad republicans are going to take away their candy.
I just don't get unions...
Last edited by Jim in CT; 01-20-2011 at 09:19 AM..
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01-20-2011, 09:22 AM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Classic, inevitable outcome of the liberal entitlement system. The union guys are upset about lack of work. Instead of, i don't know, doing somehting about it themselves, they look for someone else to blame.
Instead of waiting arond like toddlers for someone to hand them work, why don't they go out and get work? Answer...they are too dependent on the union, and on da gubmint. They don't know how to help themselves.
There's liberalism...take a group of people, get them completely addicted to a sense of welfare and entitlement. Then, you secure their votes forerevr by convincing them that the big bad republicans are going to take away their candy.
I just don't get unions...
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yeah, but JoeBob is the lazy jerk that needs to improve himself to help pay to provide work for them interesting how this all works
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01-20-2011, 10:50 AM
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#10
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Old Guy
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 8,760
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I'm not focussed on the Union aspect of this. Companies have record cash on hand, but not hiring, 'because the economic climate' does not show the need to.
Well, sure maybe some people need to look at other professions for work but for alot of people it's we can't hire you, we have the positions but we aren't filling them
Or we can only give you 28 hours or whatever it is to keep them under the full-time level so they don't have to pay benefits and hire another person to make up the other hours of the role.
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01-20-2011, 11:16 AM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by striperman36
I'm not focussed on the Union aspect of this. Companies have record cash on hand, but not hiring, 'because the economic climate' does not show the need to.
Well, sure maybe some people need to look at other professions for work but for alot of people it's we can't hire you, we have the positions but we aren't filling them
Or we can only give you 28 hours or whatever it is to keep them under the full-time level so they don't have to pay benefits and hire another person to make up the other hours of the role.
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True, what you said is definitely true.
However, if those businesses are sitting on that cash, instead of spending it, then there must be a reason for that. Most of those businesses are not charities, and it would be reckless of those businesses to spend that money until it makes sense for them to do so. If those businesses had a reason to believe that they could increase profits by spending that money, then they would have every incentive to do just that.
When a business has no idea what its tax rate is going to be, and no idea how much its health insurance costs will be, it makes it harder to know if now is the right time to make an investment.
I don't see what it good it does to blame the business. If the climate makes it better to sit on cash than to spend it, why blame the business for that? Why not focus on fixing the climate, to make it more conducive for rewarding growth?
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01-20-2011, 11:37 AM
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#12
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........
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 22,805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by striperman36
Or we can only give you 28 hours or whatever it is to keep them under the full-time level so they don't have to pay benefits and hire another person to make up the other hours of the role.
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it's for this specific reason the Government needed to create incentives for entrepreneurs and new business ideas to get more companies in the USA but they FAILED to go far enough
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01-20-2011, 11:58 AM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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I hear that Obama's dear family friend and the new Governor of his home state is hiring a slew of investigators to find birth documents or something... to end....or possibly continue(not sure which he's doing) the "birther" controversy.....you could call it...creating jobs to save a job ....should be pretty easy work and Hawaii is really nice...
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01-20-2011, 12:04 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 5,238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
True, what you said is definitely true.
However, if those businesses are sitting on that cash, instead of spending it, then there must be a reason for that. Most of those businesses are not charities, and it would be reckless of those businesses to spend that money until it makes sense for them to do so. If those businesses had a reason to believe that they could increase profits by spending that money, then they would have every incentive to do just that.
When a business has no idea what its tax rate is going to be, and no idea how much its health insurance costs will be, it makes it harder to know if now is the right time to make an investment.
I don't see what it good it does to blame the business. If the climate makes it better to sit on cash than to spend it, why blame the business for that? Why not focus on fixing the climate, to make it more conducive for rewarding growth?
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Exactly.
When the economy tanked, businesses were forced to check their books and cut the fat. They cut unprofitable programs, reduced (or froze) pay and benefits, laid off nonessential workers and developed ways to run more efficiently. Like you said, the businesses aren't going to spend money just because they have it. They aren't going to hire more people, even though they can afford to, unless those people will directly contribute to the bottom line and that is where the issue lies. Businesses effectively reduced their liabilities which has helped them have more money, but are still having difficulty with reliably increasing revenue. Month to month numbers are all over the place - housing sales are up, then down; consumer spending is up, then down. Until the volatility really stabilizes, businesses will maintain a wait-and-see approach.
My business is right in that same category. Fortunately most of our employees get their benefits from their spouse but if I have to start paying for health care at these inflated costs, people will get laid off. We've cut our expenses and developed ways to operate with fewer people. Yeah, it would be nice to hire at least another full-timer or two but it isn't worth it until the dust fully settles.
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01-20-2011, 12:09 PM
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#15
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sick of bluefish
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
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easy for me to say, but its the companies that are investing NOW and looking ahead that will be the future leaders. Talent is cheap. If everyone is waiting for the starting gun, it will be too late.
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making s-b.com a kinder, gentler place for all
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01-20-2011, 12:16 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD
Exactly.
When the economy tanked, businesses were forced to check their books and cut the fat. They cut unprofitable programs, reduced (or froze) pay and benefits, laid off nonessential workers and developed ways to run more efficiently. Like you said, the businesses aren't going to spend money just because they have it. They aren't going to hire more people, even though they can afford to, unless those people will directly contribute to the bottom line and that is where the issue lies. Businesses effectively reduced their liabilities which has helped them have more money, but are still having difficulty with reliably increasing revenue. Month to month numbers are all over the place - housing sales are up, then down; consumer spending is up, then down. Until the volatility really stabilizes, businesses will maintain a wait-and-see approach.
My business is right in that same category. Fortunately most of our employees get their benefits from their spouse but if I have to start paying for health care at these inflated costs, people will get laid off. We've cut our expenses and developed ways to operate with fewer people. Yeah, it would be nice to hire at least another full-timer or two but it isn't worth it until the dust fully settles.
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You own your own business? Then you really know what you're talking about. For me it's just theory, but you live it every day. Good luck!
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01-20-2011, 12:38 PM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 5,238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
You own your own business? Then you really know what you're talking about. For me it's just theory, but you live it every day. Good luck!
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Don't give me too much credit.
Most other small business owners I know personally (aside from one or two) have laid employees off - some had to lay themselves off for a couple months. Fortunately, we were able to avoid laying anyone off but, in doing so, had to freeze pays for a year. It sucks having to tell everyone "sorry, no raises this year" but I didn't want to put anyone out of a job unless absolutely necessary. However, we did give everyone a couple extra vacation days.
There is a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel. Opportunities can be found and because of that, I'm working on another small startup to take advantage of them. The next 6-12 months will be very interesting.
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01-20-2011, 01:02 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RIJIMMY
easy for me to say, but its the companies that are investing NOW and looking ahead that will be the future leaders. Talent is cheap. If everyone is waiting for the starting gun, it will be too late.
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If the bottom has not been reached yet, then now isn't the time to expand. Many, like me, feel a major correction will occur when the sovereign debt issue hits the fan. Municipal bonds were long considered among the safest investments, today people are running from those bonds because the fear is that towns and states will start bouncing checks soon.
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01-20-2011, 01:29 PM
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#19
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Registered Grandpa
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: east coast
Posts: 8,592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
True, what you said is definitely true.
However, if those businesses are sitting on that cash, instead of spending it, then there must be a reason for that. Most of those businesses are not charities, and it would be reckless of those businesses to spend that money until it makes sense for them to do so. If those businesses had a reason to believe that they could increase profits by spending that money, then they would have every incentive to do just that.
When a business has no idea what its tax rate is going to be, and no idea how much its health insurance costs will be, it makes it harder to know if now is the right time to make an investment.
I don't see what it good it does to blame the business. If the climate makes it better to sit on cash than to spend it, why blame the business for that? Why not focus on fixing the climate, to make it more conducive for rewarding growth?
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Yup, and JD, a small business owner, is an example.
That's why we need incentives to grow small business that will fuel the economy
with jobs that will continue into the future, not government stimulus jobs that only last till the $$$ run out.
How difficult is this for the Administration to understand that?
Not at all, they just want to grow government.
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" Choose Life "
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01-21-2011, 06:54 AM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justplugit
Yup, and JD, a small business owner, is an example.
That's why we need incentives to grow small business that will fuel the economy
with jobs that will continue into the future, not government stimulus jobs that only last till the $$$ run out.
How difficult is this for the Administration to understand that?
Not at all, they just want to grow government.
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cost of doing business continues to soar, gas, utilities, comodities are all way up, dollars is worth less so even if consumers spend their dollar, it isn't going very far and in many cases their dollar came from some government agency "safety net" transfer which at that point...is it even real money??? or just a IOU for and IOU? government at every level is looking for funds to fund the transfers and businesses are going to be the target, and they know that...OOPS..not supposed to say things like that...
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