Unions stealing "occupy bostons" thunder

[Pete F.]

I think you have the time of change right but you are giving Timothy Leary way too much credit.
I'd look to LBJ and his "New Society" The theory behind it is well intended but the bureaucracy that was created is an unwieldy and expensive method of neighbors helping neighbors thru bureaucrats.

The creation and advancement of MBA programs where instead of working their way from the mailroom to the boardroom we created relatively instant wizards who placed no value on employees only on numbers, Great at short term solutions that we (the middle class) are now paying the price for.
Ya know I try and stay out of this forum

[justplugit]

You are absoluetly right,Pete, a lot of book learners
without any experience or common sense.

Speaking of which when I was in a management training program
in the early 60s one of the books we read said, "when hiring a manager
look for someone who has the character of one you would want
your children to work for. " Honesty and integrity were #1.
That thinking would be unheard of in todays business world and hence a
big part of the trouble we are in.

Don't be a stranger here Pete, great for letting go of frustrations
and having fun.

[Karl F]

a LOT of factors besides Leary, the "New Society" etc.

My Dad always blamed the introduction of Credit Cards, Shopping Centers, which morphed into "Malls", and heavy TV ads brainwashing people to spend money they didn't have with EZ credit.... I truly feel that had a lot to do with it, it killed main street in most towns, the mom and pop retailers for the most part, went out, once the big chains took hold, and the "Mall" became the destination for shoppers, people got way to used to "slapping plastic" the banks realized it was all win win for them.. and TV gave us a 9 month xmas season, and non stop ads targeted at kids(toys) and well.. I better stop now....
but it sure did work out good for banks and corporations, which we are now being told/sold, that they are people too.....

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Karl F

a LOT of factors besides Leary, the "New Society" etc.

My Dad always blamed the introduction of Credit Cards, Shopping Centers, which morphed into "Malls", and heavy TV ads brainwashing people to spend money they didn't have with EZ credit.... I truly feel that had a lot to do with it, it killed main street in most towns, the mom and pop retailers for the most part, went out, once the big chains took hold, and the "Mall" became the destination for shoppers, people got way to used to "slapping plastic" the banks realized it was all win win for them.. and TV gave us a 9 month xmas season, and non stop ads targeted at kids(toys) and well.. I better stop now....
but it sure did work out good for banks and corporations, which we are now being told/sold, that they are people too.....

You and your Dad are right on, Karl.
Credit cards and the Malls were the beginning of the end.
Even had an effect on neighborliness, as you wouldn't meet
your friends at the local stores to say hello. Couldn't even have
a talk about last nights Gunsmoke show. LOL

[TheSpecialist]

Alot of people miss the bigger picture. Companies offshore production because they know if they want to raise profits without pissing off the consumer to please the investor it is the only way. They still charge the same amount of money for the product, but now have larger margins. Part of the problem is that companies are publicly traded, leading to smaller companies not to be able to compete and being bought up. FTA's are killing us, and we borrow money from the chinese to boot. When did it become alright for the CEO to make for example 364 times the amount of the average worker?

CEO-to-worker pay appears to narrow - Aug. 29, 2007

This is the 1percent they are talking about

[RIJIMMY]

people have short memories....

1995 I'm living in California, every 20-something I worked with was ditching the corporate world and off to some dot-com, making wads of cash. Every 40-50yr old with a shiny 401k was like a teen on viagra, their wimpy retirement investments were now worth BIG bucks while idiots paid over $400 a share or frekin eBay. There was no whining about the death of the american dream, NO ONE was whining. Times where good, and all these people with big nest eggs, instead of downsizing and moving to retirement homes, they bought BIGGER, more expensive homes, driving up real estate around the country. No one (except new home buyers) was whining when their homes they bought for 65K where now worth 350K.
The 50 and 60s where fine times because 10 years earlier every single country except the us was destroyed. We where the only industry. Things where simpler, but there where less people, more resources, and NO competition globally, all money came here.
time to wake up, kids in India, China, Vietnam, have computers, they study, they crave resources. All this adds up. Dont blame the rich, dont blame the wealthy. In american there is NO barrier to become wealthy, class, color, race - dont matter. Christ Jobs and Gates are freaking drop outs. Business is business, has been since the stone age. Some sat around and wished it would rain, some diverted rivers to provide for their crops. Some built pyramids, some lived in caves. The future is yours to make.
ACCOUNTABILITY

[Saltheart]

Politicians once stuck their necks out (literally) to do what they thought was right. Now they spend their time getting reelected and doing favors for people who now or in the future if they don't get elected will make them rich. They country is gasping for air because the people who run it have lost track of the difference between right and wrong. There is always an angle to rationalize how what will benefit them is actually the right thing to do.

Its a shame and its not likely to get better since the best way to get reelected in these times is to give everyone with their hand out what they are asking for. Of course they will keep voting for whoever gives them what they want. Why sould they have to earn it when their vote gets it for them for free.

[Piscator]

GE (who I do not work for) looks at their entire NON-Union work force every single year. They look at the top 10% performers, The middle 80% performers and the bottom 10% performers at ALL levels. They call it "rack and stack". They get rid of the bottom 10% EVERY YEAR, work one on one on how the remaining 80% can get better and give the top 10% above average raises and stock options (regardless of level, it is all based off of performance).

Not a bad model for someone that's motivated. Unlike a Union it rewards those that achieve and cuts the fat off those that do not perform.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Piscator

GE (who I do not work for) looks at their entire NON-Union work force every single year. They look at the top 10% performers, The middle 80% performers and the bottom 10% performers at ALL levels. They call it "rack and stack". They get rid of the bottom 10% EVERY YEAR, work one on one on how the remaining 80% can get better and give the top 10% above average raises and stock options (regardless of level, it is all based off of performance).

Not a bad model for someone that's motivated. Unlike a Union it rewards those that achieve and cuts the fat off those that do not perform.

When did they start doing that...I worked for GE for 9 years and never heard of it......

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

When did they start doing that...I worked for GE for 9 years and never heard of it......

Wife has been with them for almost 13 years and has it every year still. Goes from Jan-March typically. She is in HR. Some of it has been minimized a bit from the Welch days due to large layoffs and GE actively selling buying of businesses but it is still very much alive and practiced. Basically it's all level exempt employees involved and happens arounf review time.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Found some info on it.......looks to be a Jack Welch concept at GE that is not used there anymore...


Vitality curve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"GE is by far the most famous company to utilize this form of corporate management. However, since Jack Welch's departure from the company, less emphasis has been placed on eliminating the bottom 10% and more emphasis placed on team-building."

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Found some info on it.......looks to be a Jack Welch concept at GE that is not used there anymore...


Vitality curve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"GE is by far the most famous company to utilize this form of corporate management. However, since Jack Welch's departure from the company, less emphasis has been placed on eliminating the bottom 10% and more emphasis placed on team-building."

It still is very well alive, my wife works for GE and is in HR, she does it every year and it still continures under Immelt..........

[The Dad Fisherman]

I think a lot of it might also n=be getting minimized due to it not really being as functional a way to manage as originally thought.....what if your people in the bottom 10 are still meeting or exceeding their goals? Just not by as much of a margin as the higher percentage. do you chitcan a person for actually meeting his goals?

was reading a couple of articles on this after you brought it up and found that a lot of companies are shying away from this approach as it has also brought about a lot of Falsifying of information, sand-bagging numbers, and was counter-productive to Morale.

Seems to me it would also undermine the Team Concept that a lot of companies try to establish.

just saying....it might not be the end-all be-all, but it has some merit and probably works well in certain environments.