Unions stealing "occupy bostons" thunder

[Swimmer]

I have to agree with what some of the people protesters are doing, such as: outrageous CEO salaries and so forth, but much of what they are doing seems aimless.

I find it hard to imagine the original occupiers not having an issue with the union interlopers though. They have jobs, most with benefits, although some say like the SEIU/hotel people are underpaid. I don't know what they make so I can't say. But the Verizon people generally make good salaries, but the company is trying to cut the bennys.

I wonder how long before the clash occurs?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

I wonder how long before the clash occurs?

I don't think it will occur. Union works have cemented in a great scam for themselves. They push to milk the employer (or taxpayer) for all they can and then paint up an illusion like they are the little guy that's being stomped on by "the 1%." The Union workers are seen as "one of us" due to the Union's effective marketing of themselves.

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

I don't think it will occur. Union works have cemented in a great scam for themselves. They push to milk the employer (or taxpayer) for all they can and then paint up an illusion like they are the little guy that's being stomped on by "the 1%." The Union workers are seen as "one of us" due to the Union's effective marketing of themselves.

X2......

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

I have to agree with what some of the people protesters are doing, such as: outrageous CEO salaries and so forth, ?

private companies, they can protest all they want. Its none of their business. dont like it, dont do business with the company. Dont like bank fees, dont do business with them, dont want student loans, dont borrow.

Think the customer has no voice? Look at Netflx over the last few months.

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

private companies, they can protest all they want. Its none of their business. dont like it, dont do business with the company. Dont like bank fees, dont do business with them, dont want student loans, dont borrow.

Think the customer has no voice? Look at Netflx over the last few months.

X2

Are we now trying to put a salary cap on a private companies CEO salary?

[Chesapeake Bill]

Funny thing is, SEIU is only two blocks from the protesters in DC. They are paying kids to protest. I was told they were offering 600 per week if you did not sleep. I was thinking of sending my boy with his Xbox, a TV, and a small generator...that would guarantee he didn't sleep and he'd have a job...do you think they take taxes out for him? LOL

[Piscator]

I heard someone was selling "Capitalism" T-shirts at the Wall Street protest for $19.99 and protestors were buying them like crazy. Perfect example of a bunch of followers having no clue what the stand for or what they are truly protesting about.

[spence]

For banks to take HUGE risks, fail miserably, get hundreds of BILLIONS in taxpayer bailouts, then recover and offer millions in bonuses to some while tens of thousands are being laid off.

This is...the American Dream.

I can't imagine why anyone would protest the American Dream.

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

For banks to take HUGE risks, fail miserably, get hundreds of BILLIONS in taxpayer bailouts, then recover and offer millions in bonuses to some while tens of thousands are being laid off.

I thought you were for the bailout? Some disaster was supposed to happen without it? Is it the HUGE risks and the miserable failure that you object to? Then why bail them out? Why reward the miserable failure? Do the bonuses put tens of thousands out of work? The protesters not only don't like the banks, or the bailouts that you approve of, but they also don't like capitalism. They want to eliminate capitalism. To them, apparently, the essence of capitalism is the creation of a 1% which sucks the life out of the 99% simply because that is their goal. Capitalism isn't about private property ownership, private investment to promote private business, a symbiotic financial relationship with free market enterprise for them-- it is the destruction of all that. I don't think they have a clear concept of what the word means. People use "capitalism" to mean all sorts of things, good or bad. Like most "systems," it depends on who use them and to what ends that create good or bad outcomes. Capitalism, for the most part, has facilitated some of the greatest economic good. Some "miserable failures" have resulted from its misuse. I don't know, nor do I suspect many of the prostesters know, what economic/financial method they want to replace capitalism. It sounds like they want more government control--some form of socialism.

This is...the American Dream.

I can't imagine why anyone would protest the American Dream.

-spence

Wha??? How did the so-called "American Dream" get involved with all this mess? What the heck IS the American Dream? What is your idea of the American Dream? Do the protesters have the same vision of an American Dream that you do?

[scottw]

look on the bright side, the vermin defacating, urinating and leaving trash on the streets and parks of America currently, harassing businesses and police and causing mayhem encouraged by the likes of Obama, Pelosi, Michael Moore and Spence to complain that the government isn't doing enough for them are actually future democrat members of congress, state and local office holders etc....this is on the job training for these people, the only difference between these protesters(occupiers) and democrat members of congress is that the democrat members of congress have learned to pee indoors

[UserRemoved]

Yea they like playing footsie in the bathroom stalls too


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Swimmer]

Thanks for the replys guys. Always something to learn here.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

For banks to take HUGE risks, fail miserably, get hundreds of BILLIONS in taxpayer bailouts, then recover and offer millions in bonuses to some while tens of thousands are being laid off.

This is...the American Dream.

I can't imagine why anyone would protest the American Dream.

-spence

You would think they could take it to DC and protest the weasels they elected - oh wait, some of them are too young to have voted before and communists can't vote - that line their pockets with money from Wall St.

Occupy hard work day in and day out for a decade or two then perhaps you will have earned a right to bitch about something other than asking some Wall St puke to pay for your Ivy League Marxist education.

[Pete F.]

The American Dream
When I was a kid in the 50s my parents bought a house.
They were in their 20s (26 and 28)
My mother was a stay at home mom.
My father worked one job. He did go to college at night but never finished his degree.
People had passbook savings accounts that made 5-1/4% and the money was loaned out by the bank in their community.
I could go on and on.
Just like when my kids say you need to be greener Dad.
When I was a kid milk and soda came in bottles, you returned them, they washed them and reused them.
Meat was wrapped in butcher paper.
I don't think you can buy a food item that is not encased in plastic today.
There was no such thing as paper towels.
We rode our bikes, came home from school and went out of the house and played with our friends till our mother called us for dinner.
Doctors made house calls, you paid them with money and you could.
If your family or neighbors were sick or had a tough time YOU helped them.


Think about how things have changed and where the American Dream has gone.
Now follow the money and see where it leads.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The American Dream
When I was a kid in the 50s my parents bought a house.
They were in their 20s (26 and 28)
My mother was a stay at home mom.
My father worked one job. He did go to college at night but never finished his degree.
People had passbook savings accounts that made 5-1/4% and the money was loaned out by the bank in their community.
I could go on and on.
Just like when my kids say you need to be greener Dad.
When I was a kid milk and soda came in bottles, you returned them, they washed them and reused them.
Meat was wrapped in butcher paper.
I don't think you can buy a food item that is not encased in plastic today.
There was no such thing as paper towels.
We rode our bikes, came home from school and went out of the house and played with our friends till our mother called us for dinner.
Doctors made house calls, you paid them with money and you could.
If your family or neighbors were sick or had a tough time YOU helped them.


Think about how things have changed and where the American Dream has gone.
Now follow the money and see where it leads.

This post is full of win.

Money leads to two places: Wealthy and Politicians

Now follow the POWER, where does it lead? Politicians, the Political Class, and the Wealthy

Cui Bono?

[Karl F]

Yes Pete, better days they were.. the Doc made house calls, and was paid money.. if he came in the evening, he was most likely made a drink by the old man, and mom cooked him a home made dinner... at least it worked that way in my house... back then... the doc was not buried in student loans, malpractise insurance costs, lawyers fees, only needed one secretary/bookeeper, most likley his wife, no the staff, that plauges the doctors of today.. I could rant on the other stuff too.. but will stop now..thanks for the trip down memory lane, and as the Prophet, George Carlin stated.. "You know why the call it the American Dream don't you?.. It's 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it!"

There WAS a time...however...and some of us, remember... the "Owners" can't wait for us to die off.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Saltys

Yea they like playing footsie in the bathroom stalls too

of course, Larry Craig was a republican....

So for example:

Bank of America received (and mostly paid back) 45Bil + guarantees against something outrageous like $100Bil in bad loans from TARP.

they lay off 30,000 workers... but still give 11Mil to people who did a #^&#^&#^&#^&ty job?

Bank Of America Coughs Up $11 Million To Ousted Execs - Forbes

yup. nothing is wrong with this country.

I work with local banks for all our accounts for a reason...

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The American Dream
When I was a kid in the 50s my parents bought a house.
They were in their 20s (26 and 28)
My mother was a stay at home mom.
My father worked one job. He did go to college at night but never finished his degree.
People had passbook savings accounts that made 5-1/4% and the money was loaned out by the bank in their community.
I could go on and on.
Just like when my kids say you need to be greener Dad.
When I was a kid milk and soda came in bottles, you returned them, they washed them and reused them.
Meat was wrapped in butcher paper.
I don't think you can buy a food item that is not encased in plastic today.
There was no such thing as paper towels.
We rode our bikes, came home from school and went out of the house and played with our friends till our mother called us for dinner.
Doctors made house calls, you paid them with money and you could.
If your family or neighbors were sick or had a tough time YOU helped them.


Think about how things have changed and where the American Dream has gone.
Now follow the money and see where it leads.

Pete,thanks for the memories.

I believe the 40s and 50s were the best decades in our country's history.
It all changed in the mid 60s when Timothy Leary and his cronies became
the icons with their "turn on and drop out" hippie drug mentality.

In addition women's lib was born where they wanted
everything a man could have and do. They desrerved the equal pay and
same opportunities but left the home and began to work. Then you
had 2 incomes in a family rather than 1 and people began to live on
the 2 salaries and up grade instead of salting some away. All great till
one loses their job.

They gave their kids material things instead of their time and good values
buying them off the with material things, hence the path to greed.
Many from that generation are in power now, milking the establishment,
as usual, with the values and morals of a slug.

Just my observations and pity for those who never lived the American Dream
or have a clue what real living is all about. Their loss.
As you say, it's now" follow the money and see where it leads."

[Pete F.]

I think you have the time of change right but you are giving Timothy Leary way too much credit.
I'd look to LBJ and his "New Society" The theory behind it is well intended but the bureaucracy that was created is an unwieldy and expensive method of neighbors helping neighbors thru bureaucrats.

The creation and advancement of MBA programs where instead of working their way from the mailroom to the boardroom we created relatively instant wizards who placed no value on employees only on numbers, Great at short term solutions that we (the middle class) are now paying the price for.
Ya know I try and stay out of this forum

[Karl F]

a LOT of factors besides Leary, the "New Society" etc.

My Dad always blamed the introduction of Credit Cards, Shopping Centers, which morphed into "Malls", and heavy TV ads brainwashing people to spend money they didn't have with EZ credit.... I truly feel that had a lot to do with it, it killed main street in most towns, the mom and pop retailers for the most part, went out, once the big chains took hold, and the "Mall" became the destination for shoppers, people got way to used to "slapping plastic" the banks realized it was all win win for them.. and TV gave us a 9 month xmas season, and non stop ads targeted at kids(toys) and well.. I better stop now....
but it sure did work out good for banks and corporations, which we are now being told/sold, that they are people too.....

[justplugit]

You are absoluetly right,Pete, a lot of book learners
without any experience or common sense.

Speaking of which when I was in a management training program
in the early 60s one of the books we read said, "when hiring a manager
look for someone who has the character of one you would want
your children to work for. " Honesty and integrity were #1.
That thinking would be unheard of in todays business world and hence a
big part of the trouble we are in.

Don't be a stranger here Pete, great for letting go of frustrations
and having fun.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Karl F

a LOT of factors besides Leary, the "New Society" etc.

My Dad always blamed the introduction of Credit Cards, Shopping Centers, which morphed into "Malls", and heavy TV ads brainwashing people to spend money they didn't have with EZ credit.... I truly feel that had a lot to do with it, it killed main street in most towns, the mom and pop retailers for the most part, went out, once the big chains took hold, and the "Mall" became the destination for shoppers, people got way to used to "slapping plastic" the banks realized it was all win win for them.. and TV gave us a 9 month xmas season, and non stop ads targeted at kids(toys) and well.. I better stop now....
but it sure did work out good for banks and corporations, which we are now being told/sold, that they are people too.....

You and your Dad are right on, Karl.
Credit cards and the Malls were the beginning of the end.
Even had an effect on neighborliness, as you wouldn't meet
your friends at the local stores to say hello. Couldn't even have
a talk about last nights Gunsmoke show. LOL

[TheSpecialist]

Alot of people miss the bigger picture. Companies offshore production because they know if they want to raise profits without pissing off the consumer to please the investor it is the only way. They still charge the same amount of money for the product, but now have larger margins. Part of the problem is that companies are publicly traded, leading to smaller companies not to be able to compete and being bought up. FTA's are killing us, and we borrow money from the chinese to boot. When did it become alright for the CEO to make for example 364 times the amount of the average worker?

CEO-to-worker pay appears to narrow - Aug. 29, 2007

This is the 1percent they are talking about

[RIJIMMY]

people have short memories....

1995 I'm living in California, every 20-something I worked with was ditching the corporate world and off to some dot-com, making wads of cash. Every 40-50yr old with a shiny 401k was like a teen on viagra, their wimpy retirement investments were now worth BIG bucks while idiots paid over $400 a share or frekin eBay. There was no whining about the death of the american dream, NO ONE was whining. Times where good, and all these people with big nest eggs, instead of downsizing and moving to retirement homes, they bought BIGGER, more expensive homes, driving up real estate around the country. No one (except new home buyers) was whining when their homes they bought for 65K where now worth 350K.
The 50 and 60s where fine times because 10 years earlier every single country except the us was destroyed. We where the only industry. Things where simpler, but there where less people, more resources, and NO competition globally, all money came here.
time to wake up, kids in India, China, Vietnam, have computers, they study, they crave resources. All this adds up. Dont blame the rich, dont blame the wealthy. In american there is NO barrier to become wealthy, class, color, race - dont matter. Christ Jobs and Gates are freaking drop outs. Business is business, has been since the stone age. Some sat around and wished it would rain, some diverted rivers to provide for their crops. Some built pyramids, some lived in caves. The future is yours to make.
ACCOUNTABILITY

[Saltheart]

Politicians once stuck their necks out (literally) to do what they thought was right. Now they spend their time getting reelected and doing favors for people who now or in the future if they don't get elected will make them rich. They country is gasping for air because the people who run it have lost track of the difference between right and wrong. There is always an angle to rationalize how what will benefit them is actually the right thing to do.

Its a shame and its not likely to get better since the best way to get reelected in these times is to give everyone with their hand out what they are asking for. Of course they will keep voting for whoever gives them what they want. Why sould they have to earn it when their vote gets it for them for free.

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The American Dream
When I was a kid in the 50s my parents bought a house.
They were in their 20s (26 and 28)
My mother was a stay at home mom.
My father worked one job. He did go to college at night but never finished his degree.
People had passbook savings accounts that made 5-1/4% and the money was loaned out by the bank in their community.
I could go on and on.
Just like when my kids say you need to be greener Dad.
When I was a kid milk and soda came in bottles, you returned them, they washed them and reused them.
Meat was wrapped in butcher paper.
I don't think you can buy a food item that is not encased in plastic today.
There was no such thing as paper towels.
We rode our bikes, came home from school and went out of the house and played with our friends till our mother called us for dinner.
Doctors made house calls, you paid them with money and you could.
If your family or neighbors were sick or had a tough time YOU helped them.


Think about how things have changed and where the American Dream has gone.
Now follow the money and see where it leads.

The other day a young female coastie was walking to South Station by the occupiers and many of them taunted her and then a few spit on her. Incredible rude, some of them.

So may of thier quotes surround them not having to work for what they want, and they want what they want now, or I am not going home. Guy about thirty says on TV, his parents must be proud, "they, (the man, or the conglomerate) don't have a job for me at the wages I want, so I am occupying this park until they do".

So may seem like underachievers. Like the guy who has a biochemistry degree that can get work readily working in a hospital lab, but he said that was beneath him and he only does that work when he runs out of money, unemployement I guess, meaning us.

It is going to be funny when it comes to a crashing interactive end. Mennino is going to get sick of all those big donors complaining about the mess, fecal, rubbish and otherwise and in the middle of the night, goodbye.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Karl F

Yes Pete, better days they were.. the Doc made house calls, and was paid money.. if he came in the evening, he was most likely made a drink by the old man, and mom cooked him a home made dinner... at least it worked that way in my house... back then... the doc was not buried in student loans, malpractise insurance costs, lawyers fees, only needed one secretary/bookeeper, most likley his wife, no the staff, that plauges the doctors of today.. I could rant on the other stuff too.. but will stop now..thanks for the trip down memory lane, and as the Prophet, George Carlin stated.. "You know why the call it the American Dream don't you?.. It's 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it!"

There WAS a time...however...and some of us, remember... the "Owners" can't wait for us to die off.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Attachment 48778

I think it cynical BS. Its easy to place the blame on some invisible force ..."the man".
The owners do need obediant workers and they also need leaders, creative people, and thinkers. It takes all kinds and there are NO barriers to becoming an owner. Only your own limitations. Unfortunatley for this country, we dont have many obediant workers willing to do low paying jobs so they went overseas.

I've seen too many people, very close to me, come to this country with nothing and become successful. Fueled by hard work and sacrifice.

[TheSpecialist]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I think it cynical BS. Its easy to place the blame on some invisible force ..."the man".
The owners do need obediant workers and they also need leaders, creative people, and thinkers. It takes all kinds and there are NO barriers to becoming an owner. Only your own limitations. Unfortunatley for this country, we dont have many obediant workers willing to do low paying jobs so they went overseas.

I've seen too many people, very close to me, come to this country with nothing and become successful. Fueled by hard work and sacrifice.

Most jobs went over seas so that companies could pad their pockets, make no mistake about it. Consumers never reap the benefits when a company saves money, the owners or the investors do.

If Verizon cuts the benefits that so many think are too good, do you think that you as a consumer will reap some savings off your monthly bill? If you think that keep dreaming....

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I've seen too many people, very close to me, come to this country with nothing and become successful. Fueled by hard work and sacrifice.

Like Thomas J. Flatley who came here from Ireland in 1950 with $32 in his pocket, he only ended up making about $1.6 Billion. Gave millions back to charities. His business continues even though he passed on.