Unions stealing "occupy bostons" thunder

[TheSpecialist]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

My understanding is that the union and company typically set guidelines for performance through the Collective Bargaining Agreement.I'd bet in the CBA there is a very explicit, clearly-articulated framework for what is expected of each union worker and an equally excruciating process for how you fire a bad worker.

No other thoughts on my opinions on the lack of incentive to do more than the minimum necessary?

YOur understanding is wrong. The company sets work standards, and safety practices, as well as productivity numbers. The union's position has been and will always be work to the company's rules. The problem is the people who excel in productivity often skip safety steps to speed up the productivity. The company always looks the other way until someone gets hurt or killed, then if you were only lucky enough to be injured they will suspend you from work with out pay when you are healthy enough to come back.
That is the biggest problem in America is everyone has an understanding but no one knows the facts. It's not like it was in the old days.

[JohnnyD]

I apologize for my misinformed view on how the standards are set. Not living that aspect of dealing with unions, my understanding is definitely limited. I do have to contest one statement though:

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

The problem is the people who excel in productivity often skip safety steps to speed up the productivity.

There's a difference between being thorough yet efficient with your time - something that produces a quality product/performance in a quicker amount of time - and haphazard laziness that results in being done quicker but at the expense of poor results and potential danger.

There have been a few times now that you've stated blatantly that if someone excels at their job then they must be cutting corners, and I just can't agree with that. I have employees that do high quality work in an hour that takes other employees 1.5-2 hours. I have also let go employees that will do a job in an hour, didn't care about the quality and had no intentions of improving.

Excelling at a job means doing a better job than the typical employee - whether it is through higher quality of work or a more efficient use of time - while not sacrificing other aspects of the work (protocol, safety, etc).

Let me ask you this: have you never heard of a union worker that does quality work, up to safety standards and finishes quickly being told that they need to "slow down" or "find something else to do for a little bit"? If so, you'll be the first union employee I've ever met to say that.

[TheSpecialist]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

I apologize for my misinformed view on how the standards are set. Not living that aspect of dealing with unions, my understanding is definitely limited. I do have to contest one statement though:

There's a difference between being thorough yet efficient with your time - something that produces a quality product/performance in a quicker amount of time - and haphazard laziness that results in being done quicker but at the expense of poor results and potential danger.

There have been a few times now that you've stated blatantly that if someone excels at their job then they must be cutting corners, and I just can't agree with that. I have employees that do high quality work in an hour that takes other employees 1.5-2 hours. I have also let go employees that will do a job in an hour, didn't care about the quality and had no intentions of improving.

Excelling at a job means doing a better job than the typical employee - whether it is through higher quality of work or a more efficient use of time - while not sacrificing other aspects of the work (protocol, safety, etc).

Let me ask you this: have you never heard of a union worker that does quality work, up to safety standards and finishes quickly being told that they need to "slow down" or "find something else to do for a little bit"? If so, you'll be the first union employee I've ever met to say that.

I can tell you for a fact, that out of 35 guys the top 4 producers have been caught skipping safety to increase productivity numerous times. I have witnessed it myself. On top of it we are going back on more of their jobs because something wasn't done right as compared to a guy that takes the time to do it right the first time.

I don't know what business you are into but the problem is that blanket negative, misinformed statements about unions, are like stereotyping people, sure there are some bad systems and some bad apples, but alot more good compared to the bad.

As far as your last statement, we take non productive time, until upper management decides to move the bar again an increase the number. We don't call the shots the managers do.

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

I can tell you for a fact, that out of 35 guys the top 4 producers have been caught skipping safety to increase productivity numerous times. I have witnessed it myself. On top of it we are going back on more of their jobs because something wasn't done right as compared to a guy that takes the time to do it right the first time.

I don't know what business you are into but the problem is that blanket negative, misinformed statements about unions, are like stereotyping people, sure there are some bad systems and some bad apples, but alot more good compared to the bad.

As far as your last statement, we take non productive time, until upper management decides to move the bar again an increase the number. We don't call the shots the managers do.

It surprises me how little non-union workers actually understand about how unions do work. Judging from the rhetoric you'd think some people here actually worked in administration and dealt with unions on an adversarial basis. But it turns out they do neither.

[scottw]

What does the Energy Dept claim as holding up Fisker(Solyndra II) and their production of the Goredsel?



The Energy Department confirmed this week that it has eased expectations after conditionally approving the loan to Fisker and has made allowances for scaling back projections in the final loan agreement. But the agency declined to make public those adjusted terms, including projected car sales volume or milestones the company must meet in connection with its $529 million loan. Agency officials attributed Fisker's delays to regulatory hurdles and issues beyond the company's control.($100,00 price tag and 20mpg might be a couple of "issues"....more "innovative thinking" funded by US taxpayers

sidenote: The Fisker commitment was questioned by some from the start, partly because of the company's political connections. A key investor is a venture capital firm, Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, whose partners include former Democratic vice president Al Gore. The investment house raised $2 million for Obama's 2008 presidential campaign

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

It surprises me how little non-union workers actually understand about how unions do work. Judging from the rhetoric you'd think some people here actually worked in administration and dealt with unions on an adversarial basis. But it turns out they do neither.

I've done both. Worked as union worker for 4 years. The mentality was always us vs. them. People did the minimum they had to do and cried foul at the smallest slight. Guaranteed pay raises resulted in the people who worked there 15 years+ being some of the laziest people I'd ever worked with. They cruised through the day and didn't give a damn.

On the other side of the coin, I have 5 union guys working for me as I type this. I'd also be working but because California allows unions to run-a-muck out here, I can't touch my own equipment. As such, my client's labor costs alone are going to be $11,000 out here in San Francisco, as opposed to $3500 for the exact same job we just finished in Boston.