Barack must be desperate for voters...

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I'd consider this a similar moment to the Michelle Obama remark...first time proud of country...just a different kind of clumsy. With context it makes sense, but wasn't delivered well at the time.

-spence

Spence, PLEASE enlighten me...in what context did Michelle mean that statement?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Spence, PLEASE enlighten me...in what context did Michelle mean that statement?

easy..............watch the video...her dreams were coming true

'Barack stood up that day,' talking about a visit to Chicago neighborhoods, 'and spoke words that have stayed with me ever since. He talked about 'The world as it is' and 'The world as it should be…' And, 'All of us driven by a simple belief that the world as it is just won't do – that we have an obligation to, fight for the world as it should be." MICHELLE OBAMA DNC CONVENTION


"As an organizer I start from where the world is, as it is, not as I would like it to be. That we accept the world as it is does not in any sense weaken our desire to change it into what we believe it should be - it is necessary to begin where the world is if we are going to change it to what we think it should be. That means working in the system.

There's another reason for working inside the system. Dostoevsky said that taking a new step is what people fear most. Any revolutionary change must be preceded by a passive, affirmative, non-challenging attitude toward change among the mass of our people. They must feel so frustrated, so defeated, so lost, so futureless in the prevailing system that they are willing to let go of the past and chance the future. This acceptance is the reformation essential to any revolution. To bring on this reformation requires that the organizer work inside the system, among not only the middle class but the 40 per cent of American families - more than seventy million people - whose income range from $5,000 to $10,000 a year (in 1971). They cannot be dismissed by labeling them blue collar or hard hat. They will not continue to be relatively passive and slightly challenging. If we fail to communicate with them, if we don't encourage them to form alliances with us, they will move to the right. Maybe they will anyway, but let's not let it happen by default."

We will start with the system because there is no other place to start from except political lunacy. It is most important for those of us who want revolutionary change to understand that revolution must be proceeded by reformation. To assume that a political revolution can survive without the supporting base of a popular reformation is to ask for the impossible in politics.

Men don't like to step abruptly out of the security of familiar experience; they need a bridge to cross from their own experience to a new way. A revolutionary organizer must shake up the prevailing patterns of their lives--agitate, create disenchantment and discontent with the current values, to produce, if not a passion for change, at least a passive, affirmative, no-challenging climate.

A reformation means that masses of our people have reached the point of disillusionment with past ways and values. They don't know what will work but they do know that the prevailing system is self-defeating, frustrating, and hopeless. They won't but won't strongly oppose those who do. The time is then ripe for revolution.

Change means movement. Movement means friction. Only in the frictionless vacuum of a nonexistent abstract world can movement or change occur without that abrasive friction of conflict." SAUL ALINSKY


they were the "ONES" they'd been waiting for no doubt it was the first time in her adult life she was really proud of America

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Spence, PLEASE enlighten me...in what context did Michelle mean that statement?

Quite simply, the context was about the upwelling of people, especially younger people, getting excited and engaged with their government.

The line was a bit sensationalistic and Her speechwriters/handlers should have realized it left her too open for criticism. But given the situation it's also a quite reasonable thing to believe, the energy around Obama's candidacy was like something I know I've never seen in American politics.

The reversal, that this is the first time she's ever been proud of her country as an adult is really quite a silly thing to believe when you put a little thought into it, especially considering how the Obama's have remarked that their story would be impossible anywhere but the USA. Yes it fits ScottW's tin-foil hat Alynsky obsessed fantasy of commies trying to undermine America, but outside of that, it's just a clumsy remark that was blown out of proportion by a well coordinated effort to tear Obama down.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Quite simply, the context was about the upwelling of people, especially younger people, getting excited and engaged with their government.

The line was a bit sensationalistic and Her speechwriters/handlers should have realized it left her too open for criticism. But given the situation it's also a quite reasonable thing to believe, the energy around Obama's candidacy was like something I know I've never seen in American politics.

The reversal, that this is the first time she's ever been proud of her country as an adult is really quite a silly thing to believe when you put a little thought into it, especially considering how the Obama's have remarked that their story would be impossible anywhere but the USA. Yes it fits ScottW's tin-foil hat Alynsky obsessed fantasy of commies trying to undermine America, but outside of that, it's just a clumsy remark that was blown out of proportion by a well coordinated effort to tear Obama down.

-spence

no...it acutually makes sense in context with her many other comments...


The Other Obama by Lauren Collins

Obama begins with a broad assessment of life in America in 2008, and life is not good: we’re a divided country, we’re a country that is “just downright mean,” we are “guided by fear,” we’re a nation of cynics, sloths, and complacents. “We have become a nation of struggling folks who are barely making it every day,” she said, as heads bobbed in the pews. “Folks are just jammed up, and it’s gotten worse over my lifetime. And, doggone it, I’m young. Forty-four!”

From these bleak generalities, Obama moves into specific complaints. Used to be, she will say, that you could count on a decent education in the neighborhood. But now there are all these charter schools and magnet schools that you have to “finagle” to get into. (Obama herself attended a magnet school, but never mind.) Health care is out of reach (“Let me tell you, don’t get sick in America”), pensions are disappearing, college is too expensive, and even if you can figure out a way to go to college you won’t be able to recoup the cost of the degree in many of the professions for which you needed it in the first place. “You’re looking at a young couple that’s just a few years out of debt,” Obama said. “See, because, we went to those good schools, and we didn’t have trust funds. I’m still waiting for Barack’s trust fund. Especially after I heard that #^&#^&#^&#^& Cheney was s’posed to be a relative or something. Give us something here!”

Read more Michelle Obama’s pride and the politics of candor : The New Yorker

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

Used to be, she will say, that you could count on a decent education in the neighborhood. But now there are all these charter schools and magnet schools that you have to “finagle” to get into. (Obama herself attended a magnet school, but never mind.) Health care is out of reach (“Let me tell you, don’t get sick in America”), pensions are disappearing, college is too expensive, and even if you can figure out a way to go to college you won’t be able to recoup the cost of the degree in many of the professions for which you needed it in the first place. “You’re looking at a young couple that’s just a few years out of debt,” Obama said. “See, because, we went to those good schools, and we didn’t have trust funds. I’m still waiting for Barack’s trust fund. Especially after I heard that #^&#^&#^&#^& Cheney was s’posed to be a relative or something. Give us something here!”

Sounds like she understands the frustrations of Middle America pretty damn well.

You should start posting this on the NASCAR blogs

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Sounds like she understands the frustrations of Middle America pretty damn well.

You should start posting this on the NASCAR blogs

-spence

no...sounds like she understands the "frustrations" of the OCCUPY idiots pretty damn well...which makes perfect sense...

sounds like a lot of familiar whining..."give me a damn education, give me some damn healthcare and give me some damn trust fund money"....nice

based on her reception at NASCAR, I'd say "middle America" has got her figured out

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

no...sounds like she understands the "frustrations" of the OCCUPY idiots pretty damn well...which makes perfect sense...

Polls seem to show the majority of Americans agree with the Occupy movement on core issues, distribution of wealth, corporate influences on government etc...

based on her reception at NASCAR, I'd say "middle America" has got her figured out

Perhaps they're just watching too much FOX News and are misinformed?

Fox News viewers less informed about current events than those who don’t watch news at all, study finds

Read more: Fox News viewers less informed about current events than those who don?t watch news at all, study finds#^& - NY Daily News

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Polls seem to show the majority of Americans agree with the Occupy movement on core issues, distribution of wealth, corporate influences on government etc...

SPENCISM "majority of Americans"......

the best you can do in a poll is a CBS stretch at 43%...most are in the 30% range which we know that for you means "Most Americans"

you are probably citing another obscure poll from the "Public Religeon Research Institute" claiming 67% but you forgot to either read or mention the caveat in the report or consider the dubious source

Perhaps they're just watching too much FOX News and are misinformed?



-spence

and speaking of obscure polls

"Fairleigh #^&#^&#^&#^&inson University on Monday found that people who get their news from Fox News know significantly less about news both in the U.S. and the world than people who watch no news at all.

In a survey of 612 New Jersey natives......."

a Fairleigh #^&#^&#^&#^&inson poll of 612 New Jerseyites is confirmation that Fox news viewers are misinformed/less informed?

I guess you really have to dig deep these days to continue the farce



Why blacks aren’t embracing Occupy Wall Street - The Washington Post

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Polls seem to show the majority of Americans agree with the Occupy movement on core issues, distribution of wealth, corporate influences on government etc...


Perhaps they're just watching too much FOX News and are misinformed?



-spence

"Polls seem to show the majority of Americans agree with the Occupy movement on core issues"

What polls are you referring to , polls done by The Daily Worker or Pravda?

Most Americans are opposed to handouts, defacating in public, anarchy, and putting cops in the hospital. Most Americans want to be left alone, not to be harassed on their way to/from work.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

But given the situation it's also a quite reasonable thing to believe, the energy around Obama's candidacy was like something I know I've never seen in American politics.

The reversal, that this is the first time she's ever been proud of her country as an adult is really quite a silly thing to believe when you put a little thought into it, especially considering how the Obama's have remarked that their story would be impossible anywhere but the USA. Yes it fits ScottW's tin-foil hat Alynsky obsessed fantasy of commies trying to undermine America, but outside of that, it's just a clumsy remark that was blown out of proportion by a well coordinated effort to tear Obama down.

-spence

"But given the situation it's also a quite reasonable thing to believe, the energy around Obama's candidacy was like something I know I've never seen in American politics."

Spence, stop the spin, OK? If Michells said "gee, I've never seen this kind of enthusiasm", than your justification would have merit. That's not remotely what she said. She said she had never before been proud of this country.

"The reversal, that this is the first time she's ever been proud of her country as an adult is really quite a silly thing to believe when you put a little thought into it"

OK, so according to you, it's silly and thoughtless for me to believe that she meant what she said?

Spence, when Bush put his foot in his mouth, did you bend over backwards to excuse it? Or did you hold him accountable for it?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

OK, so according to you, it's silly and thoughtless for me to believe that she meant what she said?

Yes.

Spence, when Bush put his foot in his mouth, did you bend over backwards to excuse it? Or did you hold him accountable for it?

I have plenty of criticism for Bush, but I don't believe I've ever questioned his love of country or even his personal integrity.

-spence