Mass Striper decline numbers from NOAA

[Typhoon]

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

There was a school of bass 10 miles long off the backside spotted by a few spotter planes. day after day all summer long but I guess the Pratt family probly made that up.
Lets not forget the commercial bass quota only took 17 days to fill
NOAA can't count there own toes
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Best two years of striper fishing on the backside of cape cod we've ever seen.

Fish move.

The bait is the problem. Protect the bait, the stripers return.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Typhoon

Best two years of striper fishing on the backside of cape cod we've ever seen.

Fish move.

The bait is the problem. Protect the bait, the stripers return.

Anecdotal evidence does not represent the whole population. Best fishing on the backside also happened right up to the collapse. Are you saying best two years ever, including the 1960's-early 1980's? Bait wasn't the problem in the 60's- 80's. Overfishing was. We have harvested more fish in total in recent years. It will lead to collapse, if it hasn't already. Fish move, but 10 years ago they moved, as well, yet were found up in down the coast spring through late fall.

[Clammer]

PI

Last time >.your went to Golf & Photography ><<<>

[piemma]

Originally Posted by Clammer

PI

Last time >.your went to Golf & Photography ><<<>

I'm just a renaissance man.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

There was a school of bass 10 miles long off the backside spotted by a few spotter planes. day after day all summer long but I guess the Pratt family probly made that up.
Lets not forget the commercial bass quota only took 17 days to fill
NOAA can't count there own toes
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

One big population on the backside, yet an absence of fish everywhere else... stocks must be healthy.

Didn't there used to be a time when you didn't need a boat to catch stripers because the fish were literally everywhere along the shore?

[JackK]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

One big population on the backside, yet an absence of fish everywhere else... stocks must be healthy.

Didn't there used to be a time when you didn't need a boat to catch stripers because the fish were literally everywhere along the shore?

Do you mean littorally?

Sorry, couldn't resist the pun...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[WoodyCT]

C&R with single hooks would definitely help, but

GAMEFISH STATUS AND A 5 YEAR MORATORIUM

would be even better!


Freak, so we mighty fishermen just can't find or catch the bass, is that the issue?

[thefishingfreak]

Originally Posted by WoodyCT

C&R with single hooks would definitely help, but

GAMEFISH STATUS AND A 5 YEAR MORATORIUM

would be even better!


Freak, so we mighty fishermen just can't find or catch the bass, is that the issue?

Not getting into a pissing match, many people had a great season. Like I said NOAA can't count there own toes.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Chunkah]

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

Not getting into a pissing match, many people had a great season. Like I said NOAA can't count there own toes.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I don't want to get into a pissing match either, but what percentage of these fish are out in deeper water? I think a lot of the concern here comes from shore fisherman and guys with small boats.

[big jay]

NOAA also claimed that recreational fisherman caught more codfish than the entire commercial fleet (you know, the draggers, gill netters, and tub trawlers) and most all of that occurred in the last 2 weeks of April (when 90% of rec boats aren't even in the water).

To call NOAA's data collection unreliable is a hideous understatement.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[JackK]

Originally Posted by Rob Rockcrawler

Why is it that the Cod regulations are going to be a lot tighter in the coming years but there is little talk about any meaningful change in the striper take. Since both the numbers come from NOAA i would think they would both be worthy of taking action.

Cod are managed federally by NOAA, SB are managed by state.

Originally Posted by big jay

NOAA also claimed that recreational fisherman caught more codfish than the entire commercial fleet (you know, the draggers, gill netters, and tub trawlers) and most all of that occurred in the last 2 weeks of April (when 90% of rec boats aren't even in the water).

To call NOAA's data collection unreliable is a hideous understatement.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I was at the meeting on Friday, and this was addressed... Rauch said that data in particular has been updated, and it's not nearly as high as initially reported. Maybe BP can chime in on that one.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by JackK

Cod are managed federally by NOAA, SB are managed by state.



I was at the meeting on Friday, and this was addressed... Rauch said that data in particular has been updated, and it's not nearly as high as initially reported. Maybe BP can chime in on that one.

Horsehockey! they haven't rerun the numbers and they have even said they won't re run the numbers. NMFS is going to stick with the new assessment, warts and all, and that's what we are all going to have to live with.

[fatcow]

The bass are staying with the bait. Most fish are not migrating this far up. All the pogies stay south while we have sandeels. Why would u give
up prime rib for steak ums. 2 years ago everyone was pumped up about how the canal was red hot, macks everywhere same went for cape cod bay. Last year no macks no bait less fish people cry crash. Fish need a sustainable food supply to survive if there no food why stay in one area. They go were the food is.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by fatcow

The bass are staying with the bait. Most fish are not migrating this far up. All the pogies stay south while we have sandeels. Why would u give
up prime rib for steak ums. 2 years ago everyone was pumped up about how the canal was red hot, macks everywhere same went for cape cod bay. Last year no macks no bait less fish people cry crash. Fish need a sustainable food supply to survive if there no food why stay in one area. They go were the food is.

[size=1]Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device[/size
Bs. Western LIS was filled with bunker all spring through June. We had more herring than anytime in 15 years. There are less bass. It is beyond any reasonable argument.

[MAKAI]

Originally Posted by fatcow

The bass are staying with the bait. Most fish are not migrating this far up. All the pogies stay south while we have sandeels. Why would u give
up prime rib for steak ums. 2 years ago everyone was pumped up about how the canal was red hot, macks everywhere same went for cape cod bay. Last year no macks no bait less fish people cry crash. Fish need a sustainable food supply to survive if there no food why stay in one area. They go were the food is.

A lot more at play here than just bait.

[piemma]

Originally Posted by fatcow

All the pogies stay south while we have sandeels.

Not true at all. You are way off on the pogies. Narragansett Bay had more pogies and they stayed longer than anytime in the past 40 years. The banning of the pogie boats from the upper Bay, EG, Bristol and the Providence River had a dramatic effect on the numbers of pogies. Hell, EG Bay had millions of adult pogies into November.

The Bass are in trouble, have been in trouble for 6 years and it will continue to get worse. I lived thru the moratorium in the 80s and helped with the recovery. I'm now 64 and probably will not live long enough to see another recovery.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by fatcow

Last year no macks no bait less fish people cry crash. Fish need a sustainable food supply to survive if there no food why stay in one area. They go were the food is.

No macks? There were thick schools of macks off the Race for almost the entire season. By your theory, we should have had more stripers than we knew what to do with.

Me thinks there's more to it than just bait.

[JackK]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Horsehockey! they haven't rerun the numbers and they have even said they won't re run the numbers. NMFS is going to stick with the new assessment, warts and all, and that's what we are all going to have to live with.

Sorry, that's just not true. In terms of the overall garm assessment, yes, its being used. In terms of the specific April data, its been revisited. One set of data does not an entire model make
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by JackK

Sorry, that's just not true. In terms of the overall garm assessment, yes, its being used. In terms of the specific April data, its been revisited. One set of data does not an entire model make
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The ONLY thing that matters is the stock assessment, everything else is based on that, and they have not changed the numbers in the stock assessment.

[big jay]

Updated.. sure, because everyone raised holy hell when it was published. NOAA was running with them until they were questioned.

[BassDawg]

NUMBERS,,,,,,,,,,,,

SCHMUMBERS!!!

the major problem with science is that it works in reverse~~~

an event happens; THEN, it goes about trying to "prove/disprove" the causes/results of the EVENT.

the inherent problem with scientific data is that it can be manipulated for whichever intent or purpose one funds it to be interpreted by~~~

numbers, data, yoy, indices, takes, ALL THE CRAP gets gathered and thrown into a witch's brew and then gets regurgitated back to us lay folk, lawmakers, and licensees to be told whatever the MONEY wants to tell!!! follow the money when it comes to "expert" anything, and you will hear two sides to every datum report, three sides to most issues, and in the end,,,,,,,,,,,,SADLY,,,,,,,,,,,,,the entity with the most power and lobby wins the managerial decision.

this has NEVER been about the Species, the Forage, or the Ocean!!!

if it ever TRULY was,,,,,,,,,,,,,would we have experienced the FIRST crash? would a single Corp like Omega be allowed to decimate Menhaden so recklessly? would the DelMarVa waters be so utterly polluted by the Poultry Industry and the Hudson so damaged by petrochemical runoffs?

will we ever LEARN?? ask the Plains Indians about their beloved American Bison!! i do not think that we are crashing the SB Stock, YET!

[Raider Ronnie]

[stripermaineiac]

LOL So I'm to enterperet that we still just wanna argue about it instead of doing anything. same dumb-A-- response from us that brought about the moratorium yrs ago. so are we gonna do something constructive of just moan an groan as usuall.we can fix this if we get off our collective butts an work together. We are a damn big voice that a load of other anglers listen to.

[WoodyCT]

Thank god it's just NOAA's data that is wrong.

You would think they could count dead fish accurately after all these years of practice.

Keep on killing boys- the ocean's bounty knows no bounds.

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[stripermaineiac]

Lack of communication hurt us a long time back. guys like John an Zeno along with a load of good anglers with some heavy credability give us a huge tool to use to get some important changes made now when needed so that in a few yrs things will be much better. i went through one moratorium an learned a lot from guys like Bob Pond,Stan Gibbs,Roberto Germani,Jerry Jansen an a load of others.Most important waS THAT IF WE WORKED TOGETHER WE CAN ACCOMPLISH A LOT.We can only hurt ourselves with all the insesant bickering.We not someone else need to start taking steps. i'm not talking stop fishing I'm talking being conservative and taking care to release fish so they survive an use methods of fishing an gear so the STRIPERS have the biggest chance of survival.I've put so much of my own life into this fish and the love an joy of chasing it an the fantastic people we all have had the chance to meet because of it that it would be such a shame if we don't work together to try to fix this before it gets out of hand.We need to work together. we all played a part in getting things where they are today so lets all work together to fix the problem. Ron McKee--AKA-- Striper Maine-iac

[zimmy]

I love that when the NOAA data matches pretty much what nearly all of the serious rec fisherman have seen, it is faulty data. 8.1 million to 1.3 million is so far beyond the range of error that it is a joke to say the data is invalid. By nature, the data has error. The question are the numbers within the margin of error. Not even close. Take the 100 fisherman on this cite who consistently fish the most hours. Survey them about the fishing in 1995, 2000, 2005, 2010. No doubt in my mind that an overwhelming majority catch substantially fewer fish now than 10 years ago.

[Alhbg]

Given the methods they use to collect data, the results are certainly in the ballpark. I've been keeping a detailed log since 1996 and I've used the Mass. DMF's eLogbook for the past two seasons. When they recently released information saying the recreational catch had declined 65% over the past few years, I went into my log and came up with 66% for myself.

My issue is with the arbitrary value they use as the sustainable limit. How can you know how many fish are in the ocean by counting a small percentage of those that are taken out?

The decisions made by these folks are political. They report to the Department of Commerce and their main concern is economic, not species conservation.

[stripermaineiac]

Yup us old farts don't know what we're talkin about LOL. No one has to listen. I remember some of the blitzes out along the Cape in the early 80's. loads of big fish. Went back home to Maine an nothing.Had a couple nice 50's back then but nothing in Maine.musta forgoten how to catch them again LOL.Don't do anything you'll learn the hard way.Like I said we CAN fix this if we do something now.But it takes all of us.not just the old farts.

[jimmy z]

There is one tournament that claims to have 3000 entries and a ten(10) fish limit. Don't know too much about that one up in MA. But that's not a catch and release thing I gather. If not, 30,000 bass is 30,000 bass.

[Got Stripers]

Thankfully I'm just as happy chasing black sea bass, tog or fluke; but I do miss those days where your rod was bent all day with fat schoolies. If it gets so bad its not worth towing the boat to the launch, it will be time to sell and golf full time.