Just curious, would any of you vote for Santorum

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Obama wants Norway's tax rates, without their oil.

You sure say a lot of untrue stuff for someone who likes to ask where you are wrong all the time. Or was this quote hyperbole, too?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

You sure say a lot of untrue stuff for someone who likes to ask where you are wrong all the time. Or was this quote hyperbole, too?

Zimmy, do you deny that Obama's vison of America includes higher tax rates and less oil production? Are you going to deny that? If so, please remember to open the windows when you are painting inside.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Zimmy, do you deny that Obama's vison of America includes higher tax rates and less oil production? Are you going to deny that? If so, please remember to open the windows when you are painting inside.

Why do you always say something, then change it? You said he wants the tax rates of Norway. He has never once remotely pushed for tax rates of/like Norway. Your oil thing comment is just ridiculous. Oil production under Bush steadily dropped from 5.7 million bpd at his election to about 5.2 million bpd at the end of his term. Under Obama it has steadily grown back to where it was before Bush came into office and will be at 6 million bpd by the end of this year. I don't even want to argue whether it is a good or bad thing, but your claims don't hold up to reality.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Why do you always say something, then change it? You said he wants the tax rates of Norway. He has never once remotely pushed for tax rates of/like Norway. Your oil thing comment is just ridiculous. Oil production under Bush steadily dropped from 5.7 million bpd at his election to about 5.2 million bpd at the end of his term. Under Obama it has steadily grown back to where it was before Bush came into office and will be at 6 million bpd by the end of this year. I don't even want to argue whether it is a good or bad thing, but your claims don't hold up to reality.

Even if Obama has never said "I want higher taxes", if he does say "I want to increase the size and scope of the federal government", that's the same thing. You cannot add $5 trillion to the debt, in 4 years, and not expect taxes to increase. So unless he suggests that the Chinese are going to tear up all the I.O.U.'s we gave them, Obama knows, and is OK with the fact, that are taxes will skyrocket.

Zimmy, on the oil front...you are going to sit there and honestly claim that Bush wasn't more pro-oil than Obama is? Bush, who is from Texas? You're going to deny my claim that Obama isn't as pro-oil as Bush was?

It doesn't matter if we produce more oil now than we did before. Even if we do, it's certainly not because Obama supported the oil industry more than Bush did. Zimmy, more black babies are born out of wedlock today than 20 years ago. Is that because Obama encourages black men to knock up their women and take off?

Jesus God Almighty. I'm debating a guy who claims that Obama is a bigger friend to Big Oil than Bush. I have never, EVER, heard that one before.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Jesus God Almighty. I'm debating a guy who claims that Obama is a bigger friend to Big Oil than Bush. I have never, EVER, heard that one before.

No, I never said that. Your's is a statement of delusion. I countered your patently false and baseless claim that "he wants to cut oil production" with actual facts about oil production levels over the past 12 years. Oil production has increased, he has not indicated he wants to reduce production, and I never claimed he was a bigger friend to oil. I am not sure you you really think I said he was a "bigger friend to Big Oil than Bush"? Is that some weird debate technique or do you really think I said that?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

No, I never said that. Your's is a statement of delusion. I countered your patently false and baseless claim that "he wants to cut oil production" with actual facts about oil production levels over the past 12 years. Oil production has increased, he has not indicated he wants to reduce production, and I never claimed he was a bigger friend to oil. I am not sure you you really think I said he was a "bigger friend to Big Oil than Bush"? Is that some weird debate technique or do you really think I said that?

Zimmy, a little while ago, you said this (an exact, direct quote)..."Adding more debt: yeah 2% more than Bush 2 at this point."

Instead of dissecting every hypertechnicality of my posts, how about telling us all what you meant by that. Can you support that statement, please?

Here is some data (1st column is year, 2nd column is debt as of that year, 3rd column is annual increase to the debt)

Government Spending Chart: United States 2000-2012 - Federal State Local Data

Year Debt Annual Debt Increase
2000 5,629
2001 5,770 141
2002 6,198 429
2003 6,760 562
2004 7,355 595
2005 7,905 551
2006 8,451 546
2007 8,951 499
2008 9,986 1,035
2009 11,876 1,890
2010 13,529 1,653
2011 14,764 1,235
2012 16,351 1,587

During Bush's first 3 years (2001-2003), he added $1.1 trillion to the debt. During Obama's first 3 years (2009-2011), he added $4.8 trillion to the debt.

During Bush's entire 8 years, he added about $4.4 trillion to the debt (less of an increase than Obama added in just 3 years). And Bush got dragged into a war on terror, forcing us to build a massive anti-terror infrastructure. And he saved the lives of 1.2 million Africans, which to me is worth just about any price.

Zimmy, once again, here is what you posted...

"..."Adding more debt: yeah 2% more than Bush 2 at this point."

Zimmy, please do one of 2 things...

(1) show me how Obama increased the debt by 2% more than Bush

or

(2) admit you made it up.

Good day. And checkmate.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Good day. And checkmate.

Now wait? I ask you a direct question about one of your statements, you ignore it and write a diatribe that you want me to respond to?

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Instead of dissecting every hypertechnicality of my posts, how about telling us all what you meant by that. Can you support that statement, please?

Hypertechnicality??? You say something that is baseless or factually incorrect and I counter it.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

No, I never said that. Your's is a statement of delusion. I countered your patently false and baseless claim that "he wants to cut oil production" with actual facts about oil production levels over the past 12 years. Oil production has increased, he has not indicated he wants to reduce production, and I never claimed he was a bigger friend to oil. I am not sure you you really think I said he was a "bigger friend to Big Oil than Bush"? Is that some weird debate technique or do you really think I said that?

Spence, my statement, that Obama "wants to cut oil production", is not patently false, nor is it baseless. He has consistently hindered efforts to drill in the Gulf, and he won't make a decision on the Canadian pipeline until after the election (gee, I wonder why).

Oil production is less with Obama in the White House than it would be if a "drill baby drill" conservative was in the White House. Do you deny that? Really? If you deny that, then why do oil companies give so much $$ to Republicans?

I think I responded to your question. Maybe you have the integrity to respond to mine? How did Obama increase the debt by 2% more than Bush to this point?

We're all watching, and we're all waiting...

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

He has consistently hindered efforts to drill in the Gulf, and he won't make a decision on the Canadian pipeline until after the election (gee, I wonder why).
.

Really?

There is a difference between requiring more oversight, which is pretty apparant if corners are being cut that caused the DW Horizon accident, and constantly hindering efforts to drill.

Obama to expand drilling off Alaska, in Gulf - Yahoo! News

Obama Takes To Nevada And Colorado To Talk Energy, Expanding Drilling In The Gulf

Obama eyes more drilling in Gulf of Mexico - Business - CBC News