assault rifles

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

You didn't put anything to rest. You did make yourself look pretty silly.

-spence

DadF - please note who ratches this stuff up. Likwid and Spence cant help but be insulting.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

DadF - please note who ratches this stuff up. Likwid and Spence cant help but be insulting.

Oops, it's the hall monitor

Are you asserting that the AR 15 is clearly not in fact an assault rifle? let's put this one to rest...there's an excessive amount of ignorance here that needs to be addressed.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

Oops, it's the hall monitor

Are you asserting that the AR 15 is clearly not in fact an assault rifle? let's put this one to rest...there's an excessive amount of ignorance here that needs to be addressed.

-spence

just be respectful in discussion, no need to insult or demean people. Im a southerner now, I've let go of my east coast attitude.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

just be respectful in discussion, no need to insult or demean people. Im a southerner now, I've let go of my east coast attitude.

steers & queers.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

just be respectful in discussion, no need to insult or demean people. Im a southerner now, I've let go of my east coast attitude.

You didn't answer my question.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

You didn't answer my question.

-spence

I never made one comment about the ar-15. I have no clue what type of gun it is.

[ReelinRod]

Originally Posted by spence

Are you asserting that the AR 15 is clearly not in fact an assault rifle? let's put this one to rest...there's an excessive amount of ignorance here that needs to be addressed.

Uhhhh, yeah that.

Words have meanings.

"Assault Rifle" is the name of a type of arm that does exist and the characteristics that make the gun an "Assault Rifle" are not met by the AR-15 and its clones.

OTOH, "Assault Weapon" is an invented term that was intended to cultivate a response in the general population unfamiliar with the mechanical operation of firearms, specifically the difference between a semi-automatic AR-15 and a fully automatic Assault Rifle like the M-16:

"Assault weapons, just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and plastic firearms are a new topic. Assault weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully-automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons --anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun-- can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons."

Josh Sugarmann, 1988, founder, Violence Policy Center

If you are going to use an incorrect term please use the one that is less incorrect.

[spence]

Originally Posted by ReelinRod

If you are going to use an incorrect term please use the one that is less incorrect.

For the purposes of this thread they are pretty much interchangeable. The historic naming of such devices is pretty much irrelevant unless it's to distract from the point at hand...

There is a legal precedent that classified the AR 15 as an assault weapon. That the law expired doesn't change the description, it simply means those in charge of policy at the time didn't feel necessary to continue with the ban.

-spence

[ReelinRod]

Originally Posted by spence

For the purposes of this thread they are pretty much interchangeable. The historic naming of such devices is pretty much irrelevant unless it's to distract from the point at hand...

Yeah I guess. Kindasorta like how bicycles and motorcycles are the same because some idiots can't discern further than each having two wheels. I wouldn't be comfortable with those people being given the task of creating policy and laws for them.

Originally Posted by spence

There is a legal precedent that classified the AR 15 as an assault weapon.

Except when an AR wasn't an "Assault Weapon", like when the bayonet lug and flash suppressor was removed.

So, under the "assault Weapons Ban", which one is an "AR-15 Assault Weapon" and which one is just an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle?



OR

Originally Posted by spence

That the law expired doesn't change the description, it simply means those in charge of policy at the time didn't feel necessary to continue with the ban.

Well, if you really want to pick nits, if the "legal precedent" that defined what an "Assault Weapon" has expired, can you really say that "Assault Weapon" remains a valid descriptor of anything since legally no "Assault Weapons" exist?

All in all I see this exchange as validation for my earlier stated position:

"The hallmark of a typical vocal anti-gun Liberal / Progressive is a profound ignorance of the most simple functions of firearms as mechanical objects, (i.e., fully automatic vs semi-automatic) let alone technical aspects like ballistics (i.e., "hollow point armor piercing ammo") . . . Liberals / Progressives "just know" that guns are "bad" and no amount of logic, legal citation, stats or facts will dissuade their illogical and emotional based position. In fact, their ignorance is worn as a badge of honor because they don't want to share anything, even knowledge, with sub-human "gun-nuts". They will never acknowledge being corrected and will never modify their terminology; a pro-gun person can never be recognized as being correct about anything."

[spence]

Originally Posted by ReelinRod

Except when an AR wasn't an "Assault Weapon", like when the bayonet lug and flash suppressor was removed.

So, under the "assault Weapons Ban", which one is an "AR-15 Assault Weapon" and which one is just an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle?

Under the Assault Weapons ban they both were.

Don't you have even a basic understanding of the simple functions of mechanical objects?

-spence

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by spence

Under the Assault Weapons ban they both were.

Don't you have even a basic understanding of the simple functions of mechanical objects?

-spence

This is demonstrative of you not knowing what you're talking about when it comes to this subject matter.

An "assault weapon" as federally defined during the AWB:

"Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
Grenade launcher (more precisely, a muzzle device which enables the launching or firing of rifle grenades, though this applies only to muzzle mounted grenade launchers and not those which are mounted externally)"

Since you say that "under the assault weapon ban they both were", then you tell us what two features in the above list are on the top-pictured gun. If you can't, then under the AWB, it is not an 'assault weapon' - plain and simple.

[ReelinRod]

Originally Posted by spence

Under the Assault Weapons ban they both were.

Don't you have even a basic understanding of the simple functions of mechanical objects?

-spence

Functionally they are identical, that's why the "Assault Weapons Ban" was a farcical useless law that only banned cosmetic items.

Legally, only one of those semi-automatic rifles was deemed an "Assault Weapon" . . . Under the 1994 law the criteria was if a semi-automatic rifle was able to accept detachable magazines and had two or more of the following components:

A) Folding or telescoping stock
B) Pistol grip
C) Bayonet mount
D) Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
E) Grenade launcher (more precisely, a muzzle device which enables the launching or firing of rifle grenades, though this applies only to muzzle mounted grenade launchers and not those which are mounted externally)

The top photo is a non-assault weapon AR-15 (post-ban) with a detachable magazine and was legally offered for sale during the "Assault Weapons ban" because it WAS NOT AN ASSAULT WEAPON! One could also buy extended mags that were manufactured before Sept 13, 1994 for this rifle and be compliant with the "Assault Weapons Ban".

The bottom picture is a AR-15 that was considered an "Assault Weapon" between Sept 13, 1994 and Sept 13, 2004.

Now, federally, neither are.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

DadF - please note who ratches this stuff up. Likwid and Spence cant help but be insulting.

Oh I know who the usual Suspects are.....and they were already on "The Watch List"