Lance the Doosh

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by Pete_G

Or, more likely, that PED usage may have caused or contributed to it.

It could also have been from repeatedly smashing his nuts against the bike seat for all those years. (You canal bike guys best be careful!!)

[Swimmer]

Given the fact that vitually everybody on that tour doped their is logical reasoning to think that the playing field was level, because everyone on the tour doped. Tyler Hamilton said so. And he is the one that outed Lance and helped bring him down. All that is saying is that he won regardless. He would have won if they took away the drugs, because he was in the best shape, and he would have won which he did with the drugs, because he was in the best shape. Its not like he was in the same shape I am in, juiced himself up, and came away a winner seven years in a row.

And my wife thinks the same way, and she has had a mastectomy, and currently very healthy.

[Hookedagain]

Originally Posted by Piscator

It could also have been from repeatedly smashing his nuts against the bike seat for all those years. (You canal bike guys best be careful!!)

Good advice. I am going to put a hole in my seat for added comfort. You guys are always looking out for each other.

[nightfighter]

It was not a level field. The teams with money had better doping, and the better riders doping. And while the tour has an individual winner, ie. Lance, there is still the team functioning to propel him, draft for him, and block for him. There is no way any member of that team besides Lance would have a remote chance to win. They had their job to get him the win. Tyler was a member of that team at one point, and knew he could not win, because it was not his job. And if he had come public earlier, he felt he would have been causing dozens of people to lose their jobs. That was the pressure on him. He only came forward when he was forced to before a federal grand jury. I know Tyler and spoke with him two days after the 60Minutes interview was filmed. I congratulated him for telling the truth and on being the man he dreamed he could and would be. Yet he was shocked that I had long believed that doping was rampant. One would have to be very naïve to believe that Lance wasn't doping.... A lot of similarities between Lance and Tiger it seems.....

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

A lot of similarities between Lance and Tiger it seems.....

what similarities? Was tiger leading a pro-marriage campaign? Was he a counselor on family values? Did he create an image for himself and a personal brand that he was an ideal husband? Tigers brand was based on his golf talent. Armstrongs brand was based on his conquering cancer and being a superior athlete. Armstrongs brand was based on a lie. Was tigers?

You guys are focusing on Armstrong cheating in cycling. If he did that, you're right, many did and do. But he created a brand based on HIMSELF. Livestrong is a take on his name - live strong. He didnt live strong, he lived weak. he cheated, lied and created a FALSE identity of living strong. he didnt deny it for a few months, it was YEARS of lying and fraud. he pumped his body full of unnatural enhancers while leading efforts on healthy living. the guy was a spokesperson for living healthy? WTF?

[nightfighter]

Chill, dude.....

The commonality is they both felt the rules did not apply to them. Their "greatness" put them above the rules and mores of the common man and therefore they were not to be held accountable. That's all....

Oh, and they were both compensated at ridiculously high values......

[basswipe]

I am so with RIJIMMY on this one.

I've watched death from cancer to many times and this fvck used it as vehicle to advance himself and at the same time DESTROY other peoples LIVES.All over A LIE!

I'll take it further....Lance the puke should spend the rest of his life in jail as far as I'm concerned.Shot would be more satisfying.

Anyone here who has any sympathy or anything positive to say about this loser should be in the same boat as Lance......the one that just got torpedoed.

[spence]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

The commonality is they both felt the rules did not apply to them. Their "greatness" put them above the rules and mores of the common man and therefore they were not to be held accountable. That's all....

I don't think Lance thought he was above the rules, he simply didn't regard it as cheating as it was so common.

Had there been no doping and EPO use by any rider Lance would have still likely been a repeat Tour champion because he's a monster rider and has an ego as big at the Col Du Tourmalet.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

It was not a level field. The teams with money had better doping, and the better riders doping. And while the tour has an individual winner, ie. Lance, there is still the team functioning to propel him, draft for him, and block for him. There is no way any member of that team besides Lance would have a remote chance to win. They had their job to get him the win. Tyler was a member of that team at one point, and knew he could not win, because it was not his job. And if he had come public earlier, he felt he would have been causing dozens of people to lose their jobs. That was the pressure on him. He only came forward when he was forced to before a federal grand jury. I know Tyler and spoke with him two days after the 60Minutes interview was filmed. I congratulated him for telling the truth and on being the man he dreamed he could and would be. Yet he was shocked that I had long believed that doping was rampant. One would have to be very naïve to believe that Lance wasn't doping.... A lot of similarities between Lance and Tiger it seems.....

When greg Lemond won his first tour he was a support rider for Laurent Fignon (the professor).At this stage in his carreer he was an up and comer whose job was to help Fignon win another tour title.On the final day,which is historically nothing more than a fun ride where the leader drinks champagne with his team through the streets of Paris,Lemond put on a charge to win the tour and the disdain of a lot of Frogs.
In perspective all Lance did was out-cheat the rest of the cheaters.Kind of like Carl Lewis in the olympics where Ben Johnson got bagged.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

When greg Lemond won his first tour he was a support rider for Laurent Fignon (the professor).At this stage in his carreer he was an up and comer whose job was to help Fignon win another tour title.On the final day,which is historically nothing more than a fun ride where the leader drinks champagne with his team through the streets of Paris,Lemond put on a charge to win the tour and the disdain of a lot of Frogs.
In perspective all Lance did was out-cheat the rest of the cheaters.Kind of like Carl Lewis in the olympics where Ben Johnson got bagged.

Fignon, great rider...also a doper.

You're confusing Fignon and Hinault though. The team screwed LeMond out of a win in 1985 by lying to him about the position of his captain who was s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g wind.

Lemond's 8 second victory over Fignon was in 1989 on the final time trial when LeMond brought out the aero bars...the second to the last stage. Perhaps one of the greatest moments in cycling.

For those who have never seen it it's worth watching on youtube. At the least that it's on ABC Wide World of Sports will make you feel a bit dated

-spence

[Sea Dangles]

I believe it was the final stage (23rd) from Versailles to Paris. It is still the fastest average speed for a time trial over 10 miles in tour history.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I believe it was the final stage (23rd) from Versailles to Paris. It is still the fastest average speed for a time trial over 10 miles in tour history.

Well yes, looking it up they did the time trial as the final stage which is rare these days. Usually as you noted the GC race is over by the second to the last stage and it's a sprinters finish. The riders drink champagne and generally screw around.

LeMond and Fignon weren't on the same team though that year. He rode under Fignon before the hunting accident.

-spence

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I believe it was the final stage (23rd) from Versailles to Paris. It is still the fastest average speed for a time trial over 10 miles in tour history.

LeMond and Fignon were not teammates in 1989. They were teammates in 1984, when LeMond placed third in his first Tour, riding in support of Fignon. In 1985, Bernard Hinault offered him a million dollar contract to join the team that he formed, La Vie Claire. In return for LeMond supporting him that year, when Hinault was trying to tie the all-time win record ,Hinault agreed to return the favor the following year, and whether he kept his word depends on who you believe. Hinault claims to this day that he knew that LeMond was stronger, and that he'd be able to reel him in, so he surged to try to break the field for LeMond. LeMond feels that Hinault stabbed him in the back, with the blessings of the team management. LeMond left the team after winning in 86. When he came back in 1989 after his hunting accident, Hinault retired, and he and Fignon were on different teams.

By the way, as far as I know, nobody has ever made a doping allegation against Hinault that stuck. Not that "never testing positive" means anything, but he never failed a test. LeMond, who seems to not be shy about naming names, has never accused him of doping. When they were teammates, their team manager was fanatical about not having dopers on his team. So while all 5 of Hinault's wins might not be clean, it would seem that his last one was.

And of course both Fignon and Hinault long maintained that LeMond was clean for his entire career. And if you look at how far and fast he fell when doping took over, that also supports his innocence.