Is this the Place?

[wrikerjr]

Originally Posted by numbskull

The Musso lipless swimmer and Musso bottledarter were unimpressive (probably just not right since I don't have originals)

I have worked off and on with a Musso Lipless swimmer for years unable to get things just right. I have an original that you can borrow. If you are interested shoot me a PM. I also have a bottle darter from Musso but Digger has borrowed that and i have not seen it in a while.

Your work is very inspiring.

[eastendlu]

Originally Posted by wrikerjr

I have worked off and on with a Musso Lipless swimmer for years unable to get things just right. I have an original that you can borrow. If you are interested shoot me a PM. I also have a bottle darter from Musso but Digger has borrowed that and i have not seen it in a while.

Your work is very inspiring.

I was wondering when you were going to chime in.

[wrikerjr]

Originally Posted by eastendlu

I was wondering when you were going to chime in.

I just sit around and look as i can't contribute much with my skills and everyone else pretty much has things down pat here. I learn as much as i can and if i can contribute i will, but the members here are very very good and know there stuff.

The lipless swimmer at Digger's house and the musso bottle darter were both mine that were floating around. Digger still has them don't know where he is with them.

If there is one thing i have tried like hell to make and that has escaped me is the lipless swimmer, at this point i am afraid to even get it right because i don't know what i would do.

I think you know where i want to throw that lipless swimmer Stay well.

[pbadad]

Top of the morning all. Finished with the painting of the battalion. E-tex'd a few last night. I wish I could find a proven 1 part waterbase finish. Dip it and forget it. I've done some searching but with mixed thoughts. Anyway I got out yesterday to swim the 5 new finished models. All performed great. Excited over the replica Atom 54B. It swam swaying under the surface 1-2'. With the eye bent up it constanly swam under to 2'. Adding some current from the stream it held it's own. I still am surprised a tailweighted only swimmer can swim that well. I used a 7 gram plus 1 cut in half. Approx 10-11 grams. Been reading the past and present posts on spray booths. Still undecided on "HOW". Mostly for createx but thats not the problem at home. It's the fumes from spray bombs and shooting Zinseer oil base primer. Personally to make a booth not to handle these "stinky" paints is pointless. I use a good respirator while spraying but when I use to spray cans , it seems odd to watch to others in the house "stagger as they walked."

[pbadad]

Tagger great job on the flaptail. Nice site "fishmaster". Many fun ideas to make when get "bored" with the standards!!

[ProfessorM]

too bad about the SS. I am making them too and now i am not so thrilled to throw in the water. I will try this week as a few are still drying from sealer. I used red cedar and pine. I am falling behind as i only got a few plugs to primer. Going to seal a few darters today and pray for the correct end result weight. I weighed the one you gave and it came out 2.9 oz's with hooks. My fingers are crossed.

[WoodyCT]

Given that G is a genius I am assuming this pic is PRE test swim, but I do see some inconsistent variables that could have the effect of skewing results.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by WoodyCT

Given that G is a genius I am assuming this pic is PRE test swim, but I do see some inconsistent variables that could have the effect of skewing results.

If I was a genius I wouldn't have to learn all this stuff the hard way. I tweak the lips and wires of every swimmer to try and get it to do what I want (and often adjust more while fishing for various conditions). When I can't I know I've got a problem.

That big white one with the red hooks was the problem child. It has a tail weight to compensate for the absence of a tail hook and this set up worked great in the smaller white proto at the top. The BM is a heavier plug and floats very low in the nose without the tail hook (and fished very well that way). But even when I added weight and changed lips (I cut several different shapes) and bent wires up and down that white plug wasn't right at the speed I retrieve them. I think it is the planing action of the body that is wrong.....something I'd never thought about in swimmers previously (in needles and spooks it matters) and which is why I posted about it. I suspect if I loose the tail weight and upsize the front hook I can make it work. It will cast worse, however. On the next run I'll put some concavity into the front of the body and try again.

[ProfessorM]

G. I turned the tail on my SS to a smaller dia. to hopefully allow for the no tail hook. We'll see.
As far as my Musso daters go I intend to soak them today for half hour periods and weigh them, if too light back in they go till I get the weight I want, that is with the spar sealer. I intend to do a couple in epoxy heat seal too just to fine out what happens.

[Pete F.]

I made one lipless last winter and fish liked it. I just made some more but have yet to test them, need to get a fishing license and find some open water and time. Mine do not have a concave front.

[pbadad]

BB I hear you. I went on a spinning spree since a duplicator found it's way in my basement. Over 150 plugs , basically 5-6 designs since November. The turning was the easy part. With the bodies sealed and primed the ardulous tasks start. This wouldn't be as time consuming in respect if it was a day job. After work it's downstairs for a couple hours. Painting is done on the bulk and I started to assemble and epoxy. Thats seems to go forever. I hope to say good by to epoxy finishes some day. I would like to dip finish 1 part waterbase. The search continues. I must say the epoxy finish applied w/ 1" fpam brushes works quick and well. I do 4 seperate batches of 6 cc's and go thru a couple brushes. Mix in new condiment containers for each. Yesterday I wired 3 dozen and coated another dozen. The Atom 5B models are assembled and ready for finish. Needles need wiring but are epoxied and the spin Atoms and the jrs along with the BM jrs need hardware. Let me say when you take on a large batch of plugs it's surprising how fast your plug hardware decreases!

[ProfessorM]

There are over 200 plugs in primer hanging in my sunroom above the pellet stove. This is where they hang till they dry. How many I will actually finish this year I have no clue, a mere fraction probably. Intend to do some painting today, first time this year. I am about to get a delivery of vintage plugs so I can get them all documented for future reference. I will make templates, turn maybe 2 per plug to make sure they are exact, and move on to the next one so i can return the plugs to their owner in a timely manner. This is going to take some time so it will eat into my completion ratio but you don't get to touch these classics every day so I need to take advantage of the generosity of this collector. I won't be bringing much to plugfest this year but that was my intention as I want to mingle more this year and finish want I have promised others and myself at a more leisurely pace. This is something I have learned over the last few years, keep it fun with less emphasis on quantity. What gets done is what gets done, no problem mon. don't worry be happy.

[Diggin Jiggin]

I'm at the same stage as prof m, but on a much smaller scale. I'm not sure what will be done by plugfest. I'm trying to get all the wood working done before I start to paint so I'm not painting in a cloud of sawdust. And everytime I'm done I keep thinking of a few more I should turn.

I'm up in the air regarding what to do for the topcoat. I used up almost all my sys 3 clearcoat last year and I'm not sure whether to stick with that or try something else.

[numbskull]

Sawdust would help my paint jobs.

[ProfessorM]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Sawdust would help my paint jobs.

LOL

[BigFish]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

There are over 200 plugs in primer hanging in my sunroom above the pellet stove. This is where they hang till they dry. How many I will actually finish this year I have no clue, a mere fraction probably. Intend to do some painting today, first time this year. I am about to get a delivery of vintage plugs so I can get them all documented for future reference. I will make templates, turn maybe 2 per plug to make sure they are exact, and move on to the next one so i can return the plugs to their owner in a timely manner. This is going to take some time so it will eat into my completion ratio but you don't get to touch these classics every day so I need to take advantage of the generosity of this collector. I won't be bringing much to plugfest this year but that was my intention as I want to mingle more this year and finish want I have promised others and myself at a more leisurely pace. This is something I have learned over the last few years, keep it fun with less emphasis on quantity. What gets done is what gets done, no problem mon. don't worry be happy.

I understand you are "farming out" some of your finish work??

[numbskull]

220 paper, but also wipe them down with MS and let them dry for an hour to get the sanding dust off.

I know people like to spray Zissner, but I've had much better adhesion between the sealer and createx by using brush on Zspar marine undercoat 105. You need to sand and wipe before priming and before finish coat. I start my finish coat with a "second prime" of createx opaque white.

[BigFish]

Originally Posted by numbskull

220 paper, but also wipe them down with MS and let them dry for an hour to get the sanding dust off.

I know people like to spray Zissner, but I've had much better adhesion between the sealer and createx by using brush on Zspar marine undercoat 105. You need to sand and wipe before priming and before finish coat. I start my finish coat with a "second prime" of createx opaque white.

I start off with a base coat of opaque white as well Numbscull!

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by BigFish

I start off with a base coat of opaque white as well Numbscull!

Let me get this process straight....

1. Dip plugs in whatever sealer you use (helmsman, BLO, epoxy, etc.)

2. Allow ample dry time for sealer... I'm giving it 2 weeks for helmsman spar.

3. Sand down the plug body...

4. Mineral spirit wipe down and let dry for one hour at least.

5. Primer.

6. Paint.

7. Topcoat.

8. Assemble.

9. Give all your stuff away....in this sense its just like making wine...bust your ass for months and weeks, then give it all away....

10. Repeat.

[ProfessorM]

U-Pol is the best I have found for going over a water based paint for a out of can top coat. You could probably use it over spray bombs too. Pretty tough stuff. You can us it as a top coat but will not last as long as epoxy but pretty darn durable. Mike, fishing freak was the discoverer of that.I used to use it a s a scratch coat over Createx before epoxy but later found that sys. 3 clear coat worked just as good over straight Createx and is what I do nowadays. I never wipe my plugs with anything other than a dry paper towel before epoxy. I install my belly grommets and my nose grommet before epoxy. You need to be very careful not to touch the plug with your hands or you may get some smegma on them and the epoxy won't adhere. I never touch plugs after painting with naked skin. I use disposable gloves or do all my handling with paper towels between my fingers and plugs. Installing grommets can be tricky without touching plug but you get the hang of it after a while. That is why some like to use a scratch coat as they like to assemble before epoxy and all the touching of plug during assembly will leave oils from skin on the paint. If you use a scratch coat you can then scotch brite the scratch coat and then wipe with alcohol the clean off scotchbrite dust and oils from handling. I prefer to eliminate that whole process, but I did it for a while. The down side to u pol is if you spray that in the house you will be sleeping in your car for a while. Got a smell that can end a marriage.

[RIROCKHOUND]

11. Hang it on a nail in basement
12. go to bait shop
13. buy eels
14. put eels in bucket
15. go fishing

[Back Beach]

Ok, things are rolling now

Helmsman spar dip for 30 minutes...wipe off excess...48hr dry down...light sand...mineral spirit wipe...will start priming thursday...

[Tagger]

Trying to make sand eel needles.. also stil on an old hardware kick ... I thought this was cool ... Jerry Sylvester Fishmaster trick on arse..

[ProfessorM]

nice needle eddie. Very Stezkoish with the flap

[numbskull]

Geez, don't put your name where the fish can read it.....they'll turn it down on principle alone.

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

nice needle eddie. Very Stezkoish with the flap

Did he use the barrel swivel screw method too ... I was copying a fishmaster plug I seen ...

[eastendlu]

The same type method is on the Heddon vamp except they used hangers instead of barrel swivels.

[angler229]

Very nice plugs Tagger. Here are some pics of my Sylvester Flaptail for comparison. Your rigging is slightly different. On the original the swivel is actually screwed to the bottom of the plug into a countersunk spot.

[Tagger]

Dammm ... I saw this method on a plug I saw .. I thought it was Fishmaster .. I couldn't of thought of it myself ?

[Pete F.]

I wnder if you could just wrap a swivel into your tailwrap, use a tiny loop.