TWO BASS FOR RI CHARTER AND PARTY BOATS?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^& Durand

Agreed. If the charters win the privilege of a second striper, it truly has to be a trophy fish, not just another fish from the breeding pool.

funny when you think about it and read the descriptions here of the average charter/party boat type..then realizing that the only people that will have the "privilege" of keeping two fish and the opportunity to chase that second "trophy" fish if an accommodation is made probably don't even fish that much or live locally and therefore have little stake in or reason for concern for the fishery, probably don't purchase a license or even know what the regulations are and might not even fish if they can't have at least the perception of being able to kill two bass and take some meat home....working really hard to accommodate these folks it seems

[DZ]

Originally Posted by scottw

funny when you think about it and read the descriptions here of the average charter/party boat type..then realizing that the only people that will have the "privilege" of keeping two fish and the opportunity to chase that second "trophy" fish if an accommodation is made probably don't even fish that much or live locally and therefore have little stake in or reason for concern for the fishery, probably don't purchase a license or even know what the regulations are and might not even fish if they can't have at least the perception of being able to kill two bass and take some meat home....working really hard to accommodate these folks it seems

BOOM! Way to go Scott. This is the issue in a nutshell.
Do we really want to permit paying clients, most of who don't give a rats ass about the striped bass fishery, wouldn't even know the current regulations, many don't even have or even need a fishing license if on a charter in RI or Mass, the privilidge of killing two bass? These people are the last ones who DESERVE a second fish.

BTW I just heard from a Marine Bio from RI who mentioned that there will be a pre-ASMFC meeting(date not yet announced) that we will be held so that RI commissioners can interact with the public before going to the ASMFC meeting in early February.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by DZ

BOOM! Way to go Scott. This is the issue in a nutshell.
Do we really want to permit paying clients, most of who don't give a rats ass about the striped bass fishery, wouldn't even know the current regulations, many don't even have or even need a fishing license if on a charter in RI or Mass, the privilidge of killing two bass? These people are the last ones who DESERVE a second fish.

I saw Scott's post and was going to reply with basically the same thing you just said.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by DZ

BOOM! Way to go Scott. This is the issue in a nutshell.
Do we really want to permit paying clients, most of who don't give a rats ass about the striped bass fishery, wouldn't even know the current regulations, many don't even have or even need a fishing license if on a charter in RI or Mass, the privilidge of killing two bass? These people are the last ones who DESERVE a second fish.

.

You guys are freaking hilarious. Who's "we" ??
And who the hell are you to say who deserves what ?
To a lot of you this is become personal instead of about increasing the breeding population.
Truth be told, the rec guys account for a higher percentage of the mortality of these fish then the charter and commercial guys combined.
It's always easier to blame someone else .
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[ivanputski]

48 inches + = trophy
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[hq2]

Yeah, I think we're about getting a good proposal here. I'd say 1 at 28,
1 at 40. The 1 at 28 will usually mean the sport will take the first keeper they catch, regardless of size, which will protect the bigger breeders some. 1 at 40 would make a trophy hard to catch, but not impossible; sometimes they would get one, often they wouldn't (I never
did more than 39" on any of my charters). That would give the sports a small, but not unrealistic, chance of taking home a real trophy, while protecting breeders in the 28" to 40" range, similar to the Maine regs. And, as we know from the moratorium the last time, it's the smaller fish, who may have years of breeding left in them, that need to be protected.

[big jay]

If it has to be 2 fish for charters, I would much rather have 1 @ 28" and some sort of trophy as the second than 2 @ 33".
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[dannyplug1]

This is B.S. one at 28. Fair is fair. We went to the meetings one at 28 was the general consensus at both of the meetings I attended. Now a special interest group is lobbying for a bigger piece of the bass pie. It's not right. I feel bad that the one at 28 will effect your business. However I have concerns about the viability of your business if killing two fish is a requirement to stay in business. All charters do not have to kill basd to survive. I know many charter guys who emphasize catch and release, taking few bass back to the dock during the season. Furthermore , if your bussiness has to have special rules to Survive Mabey you should consider changes or find a new occupation. I don't think it's the governments job to design the rules to keep you in bussiness. I know it sounds cold, but I can think many bussiness that no longer exist. The governs ment should provide for the same rules for everyone not adapt the rules for the benefit of special interest groups.
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[hq2]

In the end, one @ 28 will likely wind up winning. If the charter guys
get more, there will be too much uproar from the regular sportfishing guys about it. But I do think it's sort of sad that the regular sportfishing guys can't see the difference. The typical captain has all the various bills to pay, and needs to keep charter customers happy. The typical sport plops down $200+ for his one (or maybe two) days a year out fishing, and that's his likely only chance at a keeper. A lot of the guys on this board are out 3-5 nights a week all summer, and may catch 20-30 keepers easily each season. Does it really seem fair for the charter guy to miss his one chance of the year at more than one, when others take home 10 times that many each year? Sigh. Life isn't fair, is it? It doesn't matter; no matter what they do, no one will like it.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by hq2

Sigh. Life isn't fair, is it?

agreed but the rules should be fair and applied equally if you want to avoid all of this unhappiness...if you want to compare anglers and time spent on the water as a reason for an exception you should also apply that to boats too....the average for-hire spends far more time on the water and with many more people on his boat than the average rec boat fisherman and as a result kills many more fish throughout a season, applying your logic does it seem fair that one boat on the water nearly every day should be able to keep twice as many fish per person as another boat that is on the water on an occasional weekend on what might be their only opportunity to keep fish that day/week/month?

"Does it really seem fair for the rec boat guy to miss his one chance of the week at more than one, when others take home 10 times that many each week?"

[buckman]

Originally Posted by scottw

agreed but the rules should be fair and applied equally if you want to avoid all of this unhappiness...if you want to compare anglers and time spent on the water as a reason for an exception you should also apply that to boats too....the average for-hire spends far more time on the water and with many more people on his boat than the average rec boat fisherman and as a result kills many more fish throughout a season, applying your logic does it seem fair that one boat on the water nearly every day should be able to keep twice as many fish per person as another boat that is on the water on an occasional weekend on what might be their only opportunity to keep fish that day/week/month?

"Does it really seem fair for the rec boat guy to miss his one chance of the week at more than one, when others take home 10 times that many each week?"

Omg you're a closet Liberal 😀
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by buckman

Omg you're a closet Liberal 😀
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haaaaa...

this is such a boat-centric argument, I'm still wondering if the guides and clients of shore guides/kayak fishing guides etc. will/should get a two fish exception based on the same rationale and the fact that the fishing is probably even tougher

[Raider Ronnie]

"Does it really seem fair for the rec boat guy to miss his one chance of the week at more than one, when others take home 10 times that many each week?"[/QUOTE]


Who are the "Others"
Charter crew or clients ???
Most charter clients go fishing 1 or 2 times a year.
Recs (as you say) go 1 time a week.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

Who are the "Others"
Charter crew or clients ???
Most charter clients go fishing 1 or 2 times a year.
Recs (as you say) go 1 time a week.

I was talking rec boat vs. "other" boat(boat for boat)....get's convoluted when you start talking about fairness and everyone is operating under different rules doesn't it?....we're talking about mortality reduction...how many dead bass hit the decks of that rec boat fishing maybe 1 time a week and how many hit the deck of the for hire boat....where's the reduction ?

the fairness issue is interesting....

if three brothers are in town for the weekend for their "1 time" fishing for the year...

one chooses to hire charter a boat and can keep two bass

one hires a shore guide and we don't know how exceptions would apply or fishes from a friend's boat and can keep one bass

one fishes the shore by himself, can keep one bass

fairness and the reduction .....and what makes the three brothers different that they are treated differently?

[buckman]

To be honest , this might have been posted before but I found it informative .
http://www.reel-time.com/articles/co...eeing-decline/
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[striperswiper75]

ASMFC striped bass technical committee meets on Jan 8-9 in Hanover MD. Agenda not yet posted, but they are supposedly going to be reviewing state conservation equivalency proposals for Addendum IV at those meetings.
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[Linesider82]

I heard RI proposed a 25% reduction... Let the charters keep 2 fish. On Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays, and Saturdays

Sounds good to me
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[Nebe]

Ha!!! I love hearing someone with financial interests calling someone who is looking out for the fish stocks selfish...

Take a good long hard look in the mirror Buckman.
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Ha!!! I love hearing someone with financial interests calling someone who is looking out for the fish stocks selfish...

Take a good long hard look in the mirror Buckman.
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Didn't I see you on Whale Wars ?
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[Nebe]

Without green peace and other people looking out for the whales, THERE WOULD BE NO MORE WHALES LEFT!!!!!!!!!!!
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Without green peace and other people looking out for the whales, THERE WOULD BE NO MORE WHALES LEFT!!!!!!!!!!!
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Thank God for them. 😣🔫
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[buckman]

Scott,
Most of the fishing up our way is done by fisherman who travel for the fishing. The attitude that charter clients are no talent tourist , proves how little the people commenting on how this will effect charter business know.
Yes I have a stake in this financially but I have a full time job.
I'm not concerned about me. We are losing charter boats left and right on our harbor . True pioneers of the business . Now that may just be tough nuts to some here , but it's unnecessary in my mind .
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by buckman

Scott,
Most of the fishing up our way is done by fisherman who travel for the fishing. The attitude that charter clients are no talent tourist , proves how little the people commenting on how this will effect charter business know.

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not my perception.... but it's been one description of convenience to explain why the client needs two fish..."poor guy only gets to fish once a year"...."probably".......that or... he's not going fishing without at least the "perception" of being able to take two bass home.....WHO has an odd attitude toward the charter clients? Seems like most view them as equals, at least that is the sentiment I've read...it's the folks angling for an exception that characterize them as something less... needing special treatment in order to get them on the water?

The argument for DZ and me(I got it from him to be honest), that these are the last folks who should get a 2 fish exception is rhetorical to some degree based on the characterization that has been made by some of the charter folks of their clients.......

"the captain and charter industry don't really want two fish it's the client that needs two fish or the boats will go out of business...the client needs two fish or he won't book a trip...the client doesn't really need two fish, he needs the perception of needing or keeping two fish or he won't book a trip the boats will go out of business....the client only fishes once or twice a year so it's only fair that he gets two fish because others have the opportunity to fish more than that...."


unless I missed something that is the sum of the two fish argument...well, and...there are plenty of bass and a reduction isn't really needed anyway...


and if you don't agree you are selfish, jealous, hateful and you don't know very much..... or something......

[buckman]

Originally Posted by scottw

not my perception.... but it's been one description of convenience to explain why the client needs two fish..."poor guy only gets to fish once a year"...."probably".......that or... he's not going fishing without at least the "perception" of being able to take two bass home.....WHO has an odd attitude toward the charter clients? Seems like most view them as equals, at least that is the sentiment I've read...it's the folks angling for an exception that characterize them as something less... needing special treatment in order to get them on the water?

The argument for DZ and me(I got it from him to be honest), that these are the last folks who should get a 2 fish exception is rhetorical to some degree based on the characterization that has been made by some of the charter folks of their clients.......

"the captain and charter industry don't really want two fish it's the client that needs two fish or the boats will go out of business...the client needs two fish or he won't book a trip...the client doesn't really need two fish, he needs the perception of needing or keeping two fish or he won't book a trip the boats will go out of business....the client only fishes once or twice a year so it's only fair that he gets two fish because others have the opportunity to fish more than that...."


unless I missed something that is the sum of the two fish argument...well, and...there are plenty of bass and a reduction isn't really needed anyway...


and if you don't agree you are selfish, jealous, hateful and you don't know very much..... or something......

I think you mixed in a few of your reasons in there just to make it sound outrages
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[ivanputski]

Its about fish and the people. i reversed it...

We are in danger of a second collapse...

if you put fish first, then you have the wiggle room to include the people.
if you put people first, then people will wipe out the fish.

Then in the end all you will have is people... no fish.

Regulations should make preservation of the bass population the MAIN priority

[buckman]

Originally Posted by ivanputski

Its about fish and the people. i reversed it...

We are in danger of a second collapse...

if you put fish first, then you have the wiggle room to include the people.
if you put people first, then people will wipe out the fish.

Then in the end all you will have is people... no fish.

Regulations should make preservation of the bass population the MAIN priority

Nebe would be impressed 😊
You might be better putting your energy into figuring out how to change natural cycles, cure disease and change water quality and bait in the Chesapeake Bay .
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[MAKAI]

Do you know any one who has purchased a delicious piece of unbled, non iced, mercury infused red meat included striped bass for $20 plus a pound ? I don't.
I'll take a thick porterhouse and a nice bottle of red wine and still save money on a better meal.

So many better tasting fish in the sea anyway by my palate.
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[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by MAKAI

Do you know any one who has purchased a delicious piece of unbled, non iced, mercury infused red meat included striped bass for $20 plus a pound ? I don't.
I'll take a thick porterhouse and a nice bottle of red wine and still save money on a better meal.
So many better tasting fish in the sea.
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You can't argue the fact that someone is buying it.

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by MAKAI

Do you know any one who has purchased a delicious piece of unbled, non iced, mercury infused red meat included striped bass for $20 plus a pound ? I don't.
I'll take a thick porterhouse and a nice bottle of red wine and still save money on a better meal.

So many better tasting fish in the sea anyway by my palate.
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I think one reason is that it's kosher as it is not processed or bled on the boat....I could be wrong but I think it's one of the few kosher fish with high demand buy Jewish consumers
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[MAKAI]

True enough.
But is it the first sea food choice you would opt for ?
But then again I used to fish with an old striper addict who liked sand eels with his linguine.
Gag me !
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