Ukraine

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Actually, Trump sent more arms to NATO than Obama did, and he did not pull out of NATO, and he persuaded more NATO members to pony up the money they owed and so strengthened NATO. Putin had a free pass to invade and take Crimea under Obama and a weak NATO.

So, what's to stop Putin from invading Ukraine now.

So you think America and nato should have used force to stop Putin when he took Crimea? And should do so if they move on Ukraine ? For what benefit?

Also you think all Trump did to nato was make nato pay more?? To strengthen nato Thats funny he weakened Nato more in 4 years than any previous POTUS ..

Try searching how Trump weakened nato

All lies??
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

So you think America and nato should have used force to stop Putin when he took Crimea? And should do so if they move on Ukraine ? For what benefit?

Also you think all Trump did to nato was make nato pay more?? To strengthen nato Thats funny he weakened Nato more in 4 years than any previous POTUS ..

Try searching how Trump weakened nato

All lies??
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I didn't render an opinion on how Putin should have been stopped. I asked you "So, what's to stop Putin from invading Ukraine now"?

And opinions on NATO being weakened or strengthened during Trump's administration are prone to being politicized. Here's one for you that's more balanced and says NATO became stronger and it criticizes Trump but says that NATO was strengthened partially in spite of Trump and partially because of him:

http://turkishpolicy.com/article/965...d-the-alliance

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I didn't render an opinion on how Putin should have been stopped. I asked you "So, what's to stop Putin from invading Ukraine now"?

And opinions on NATO being weakened or strengthened during Trump's administration are prone to being politicized. Here's one for you that's more balanced and says NATO became stronger and it criticizes Trump but says that NATO was strengthened partially in spite of Trump and partially because of him:

http://turkishpolicy.com/article/965...d-the-alliance

Turkish Policy Quarterly is an Istanbul-based quarterly magazine
From 2018 From Turkeys no less
Not sue if you missed theses in the article

Paradoxically Trumps attacks on the alliance are actually strengthening the alliance defenders are coming out the woodwork especially in Congress. Jedi mind trick?

Or how about “ European confidence in American leadership has plunged during Trumps watch

So basically Trumps incompetent behavior and treatment towards NATO accidentally strengthens NATO LOL


The only person stopping Putin is Putin
Risk vs reward

only the Trump fan club think Trumps masculinity kept Putin out and Biden is weak
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Turkish Policy Quarterly is an Istanbul-based quarterly magazine
From 2018 From Turkeys no less
Not sue if you missed theses in the article

Paradoxically Trumps attacks on the alliance are actually strengthening the alliance defenders are coming out the woodwork especially in Congress. Jedi mind trick?

Or how about “ European confidence in American leadership has plunged during Trumps watch

So basically Trumps incompetent behavior and treatment towards NATO accidentally strengthens NATO LOL


The only person stopping Putin is Putin
Risk vs reward

only the Trump fan club think Trumps masculinity kept Putin out and Biden is weak
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Criticizing NATO, especially when criticism is needed, is not "attacking" NATO. Calling criticism "attacking" is oppositional framing. Criticizing flaws in an alliance is needed to strengthen it, not make it weaker. Signaling that you may leave a bad alliance should motivate corrections rather than only complaints. It was already weakened before Trump. Stiffening a few wobbly spines may raise some bitchy complaints. But it's for the better. No doubt Biden will build it better. At least he'll frame it that way.

So what do you think the risks and rewards are for Putin to attack. By "attack," I mean an actual physical, armed attack, not political verbiage.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Turkish Policy Quarterly is an Istanbul-based quarterly magazine
From 2018 From Turkeys no less

The writer of the article is Charles A. Kupchan a Professor of International Affairs at Georgetown University and Senior Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. Is that good enough for you?

Not sue if you missed theses in the article

Kupchan gave the "good" and the "bad." Overall, he said that NATO was strengthened during Trump, not weakened. And that, overall, Trump aided in the strengthening. As I said, his opinion is more balanced (as opposed to politically driven opinions).

Not sure if you also missed this: https://thehill.com/opinion/national...vigorated-nato

[Pete F.]

If you were Ukraine, Russia today would be like a person you divorced thirty years ago because he was beating you, now coming back with a knife saying you belong to him.
With all your neighbors standing around saying how concerned they are but doing nothing to help as they don’t want to make him angry.
And he claims that the knife is not to attack you but to protect himself from your new boyfriend. Claims he feels threatened by the guy you’re about to marry while you’re not even engaged yet.
It says something about Russia that even Bulgaria, once renowned as the unofficial 16th republic of the USSR, couldn't wait to join the EU and NATO.
But keep arguing for the most corrupt oligarchy in the world.
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[Nebe]

There has been a lot of drama surrounding Russian Gas flowing into Western Europe and i wonder if Putin is going to use Ukraine as a bartering chip for pipeline approvals.

Just a hunch

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

But keep arguing for the most corrupt oligarchy in the world.
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Who's doing that?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

only the Trump fan club think Trumps masculinity kept Putin out and Biden is weak

iPhone/Mobile device[/i][/size]

so you are saying Russia annexed Crimea because they feared obama...they annexed/invaded nobody during the trump years because trump was a weak puppet of putin and now they are threatening to invade Ukraine because biden is a strong leader and they are terribly afraid...

makes sense to me

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

So basically Trumps incompetent behavior and treatment towards NATO accidentally strengthens NATO LOL


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this is your bias screaming....HELP

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

so you are saying Russia annexed Crimea because they feared obama...they annexed/invaded nobody during the trump years because trump was a weak puppet of putin and now they are threatening to invade Ukraine because biden is a strong leader and they are terribly afraid...

makes sense to me

I am not surprised

No I have said Putin invaded Crimea because he wanted to

He’s afraid of Biden because he’s fixing the damage done to nato by you know who, who questioned NATO existence and Trump Told G7 Leaders That Crimea Is Russian Because Everyone Speaks Russian In Crimea .. with his enablers out of the White House ! now he needs to change gears..

And if Putin does invade Ukraine there is not military response Biden could make with out congressional approval.. but most conservatives want a tough guy response it their viagra ,, sanctioning Russia isn’t masculine enough

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

this is your bias screaming....HELP

Even you have fallen to his Jedi mind trick

If you think Trumps behavior towards nato was intentional .

With the goal of strengthening NATO

[wdmso]

Russian court orders oldest civil rights group Memorial to shut

Curious timing

[wdmso]

Ric Grenell, former acting director of national intelligence, told Newsmax on Monday that Russian President Vladimir Putin is ''smelling weakness'' from the U.S. and President Joe Biden regarding the situation in Ukraine.

''It's really a problem because Putin is seeing weakness. He's smelling weakness,'


Like I said it’s all the right is pushing

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

He’s afraid of Biden......

: rotf2:

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Huh? Jan 6 was stupid but it was not the greatest threat to American Democracy since the Civil War. No matter what Rachel Maddow says.

January 6th isn’t about just that day, it’s the entire effort to manipulate fair election results, gaslight the public and undermine confidence in our democratic process. What we’ve learned already from the commission should be alarming to everyone.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by spence

January 6th isn’t about just that day, it’s the entire effort to manipulate fair election results, gaslight the public and undermine confidence in our democratic process. What we’ve learned already from the commission should be alarming to everyone.

Not to the right, who are trying every which way they can to regain or hold on to power.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

January 6th isn’t about just that day, it’s the entire effort to manipulate fair election results, gaslight the public and undermine confidence in our democratic process. What we’ve learned already from the commission should be alarming to everyone.

and after the 2016 election when democrats were asking the electors not to cast their votes for Trump, what was that, exactly?

i’m with you on january 6, but i can’t help but notice how, well, selective you are in terms of when you’re opposed to interfering with the democratic process, and when you seem to be fine with it. shockingly, you’re consistently ok with it when your side does it. but that’s just a coincidence.

when elected democrats in the TX state legislature hopped on a chartered jet to flee
the state so that the legislative process could not function, did you call that out?

When rioters stormed the WI state capital because the republicans had passed legislation weakening labor union influence, that was ok with you.

When stacey abrams says her election was stolen, not a peep from you.
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Do as I say, not as I do
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Do as I say, not as I do
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and both sides constantly do it, obviously, politics attracts the worst. but they’ll never admit it. never. they can’t. democrats are always right, republicans are always wrong, because life is just that simple.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

and after the 2016 election when democrats were asking the electors not to cast their votes for Trump, what was that, exactly?

i’m with you on january 6, but i can’t help but notice how, well, selective you are in terms of when you’re opposed to interfering with the democratic process, and when you seem to be fine with it. shockingly, you’re consistently ok with it when your side does it. but that’s just a coincidence.

when elected democrats in the TX state legislature hopped on a chartered jet to flee
the state so that the legislative process could not function, did you call that out?

When rioters stormed the WI state capital because the republicans had passed legislation weakening labor union influence, that was ok with you.

When stacey abrams says her election was stolen, not a peep from you.
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More false equivalencies

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

More false equivalencies

More as in added to yours.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

More false equivalencies

Trump won fair and and square in 2016, and some in your side asked the electors to subvert democracy and cast their votes for someone else.

saying “false equivalencies” with zero support (as usual) makes you look stupid, weak,,and desperate.

the whole idea of superdelegates on the left, is a specific attempt to give the democrats the ability to undermine democracy when they don’t happen to like the results of the democratic process. it’s completely antithetical to democracy. the superdelegates aren’t elected, yet they get to overrule the democratic process in primaries.

try making that even a little bit wrong.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Trump won fair and and square in 2016, and some in your side asked the electors to subvert democracy and cast their votes for someone else.

saying “false equivalencies” with zero support (as usual) makes you look stupid, weak,,and desperate.

the whole idea of superdelegates on the left, is a specific attempt to give the democrats the ability to undermine democracy when they don’t happen to like the results of the democratic process. it’s completely antithetical to democracy. the superdelegates aren’t elected, yet they get to overrule the democratic process in primaries.

try making that even a little bit wrong.
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Pretty simple to make it wrong
There’s no provision for “primaries” in the Constitution.
In fact the current two party system is the founder’s nightmare.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Pretty simple to make it wrong
There’s no provision for “primaries” in the Constitution.
In fact the current two party system is the founder’s nightmare.
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ok.

how about the left, after the 2016 election, asking electors to ignore the outcome of our democratic process, the left didn’t like the outcome, so they tried to change the outcome after a free election.

isn’t that pretty much what trump was asking for on january 6th?

have fun with that.

there are democrats in congress today, who objected to states’ electors casting their votes for trump after the 2016 election. but as always, it’s ok when they do it.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Trump won fair and and square in 2016, and some in your side asked the electors to subvert democracy and cast their votes for someone else.

Couple a Sanders supporters, a few wanted some to go against Clinton also.

saying “false equivalencies” with zero support (as usual) makes you look stupid, weak,,and desperate.

No it just means I’m tired of your - I read on a tabloid two years ago and can’t drop it - level of insight.

the whole idea of superdelegates on the left, is a specific attempt to give the democrats the ability to undermine democracy when they don’t happen to like the results of the democratic process. it’s completely antithetical to democracy. the superdelegates aren’t elected, yet they get to overrule the democratic process in primaries.

Actually super delegates represented a small minority of overall delegates, but it’s kid of moot anyway as they only use them in contested primaries now.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Couple a Sanders supporters, a few wanted some to go against Clinton also.


No it just means I’m tired of your - I read on a tabloid two years ago and can’t drop it - level of insight.


Actually super delegates represented a small minority of overall delegates, but it’s kid of moot anyway as they only use them in contested primaries now.

that whole post s a joke.

yes, superdelegates only matter in close primaries. but why not just trust the democrat voters? why do unelected superdelegates get to overrule the results of a free and fair election?

why was it ok when democrats asked electors not to cast their votes for trump? why wasn’t that undermining free and fair elections?

you can’t begin to make that wrong. lobbing baseless insults just proves my point.

everything is ok when democrats do it.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

ok.

how about the left, after the 2016 election, asking electors to ignore the outcome of our democratic process, the left didn’t like the outcome, so they tried to change the outcome after a free election.

isn’t that pretty much what trump was asking for on january 6th?

have fun with that.

there are democrats in congress today, who objected to states’ electors casting their votes for trump after the 2016 election. but as always, it’s ok when they do it.
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No, You’re wrong
It’s not fun, it’s the greatest threat to the constitution since the war between the states.
And let’s not forget Y’all are acting like you’ve never seen a 43 year old Governor who only won by 30k votes in a State with 21m people who he failed to protect from a deadly virus for 2 years so he could suck-up to MAGA base & imitate a septuagenarian grifter go missing for 2 weeks at Xmas before.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

No, You’re wrong
It’s not fun, it’s the greatest threat to the constitution since the war between the states.
And let’s not forget Y’all are acting like you’ve never seen a 43 year old Governor who only won by 30k votes in a State with 21m people who he failed to protect from a deadly virus for 2 years so he could suck-up to MAGA base & imitate a septuagenarian grifter go missing for 2 weeks at Xmas before.
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why is it wrong for trump to try and undermine an election, but no problem when democrats did it in 2016?you keep dancing around that, can’t imagine why.

you say desantis failed, but you won’t say that about Cuomo, whose numbers are worse despite having a fewer percentage of elderly.

You’re a thoughtless political hack. you are the exact, precise mirror image of sean hannity, you’re exactly as predictable as he is. Do you not see that? You’re the same parrot that he is.

So according to your side, Cuomo was the “gold standard “ in covid leadership. And even though Desantis has a lower death rate ( with more seniors and fewer lockdowns), he failed??

That just makes ALL KINDS of sense.

And huge numbers of people
are moving to FL. So America doesn’t agree with you, Pete. You’re scared sh*tless of Desantis, and it shows, and you’re right to be.


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[Pete F.]

Keep making up baloney
You tried to make primaries, which only exist in the realm of political parties equivalent to a general election.
Then you falsely claim some equivalence between Cuomo and DeathSantis
Poor victim
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