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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi: |
12-27-2021, 02:56 PM
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch
Actually, Trump sent more arms to NATO than Obama did, and he did not pull out of NATO, and he persuaded more NATO members to pony up the money they owed and so strengthened NATO. Putin had a free pass to invade and take Crimea under Obama and a weak NATO.
So, what's to stop Putin from invading Ukraine now.
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So you think America and nato should have used force to stop Putin when he took Crimea? And should do so if they move on Ukraine ? For what benefit?
Also you think all Trump did to nato was make nato pay more?? To strengthen nato Thats funny he weakened Nato more in 4 years than any previous POTUS ..
Try searching how Trump weakened nato
All lies??
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12-27-2021, 03:29 PM
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
So you think America and nato should have used force to stop Putin when he took Crimea? And should do so if they move on Ukraine ? For what benefit?
Also you think all Trump did to nato was make nato pay more?? To strengthen nato Thats funny he weakened Nato more in 4 years than any previous POTUS ..
Try searching how Trump weakened nato
All lies??
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I didn't render an opinion on how Putin should have been stopped. I asked you "So, what's to stop Putin from invading Ukraine now"?
And opinions on NATO being weakened or strengthened during Trump's administration are prone to being politicized. Here's one for you that's more balanced and says NATO became stronger and it criticizes Trump but says that NATO was strengthened partially in spite of Trump and partially because of him:
http://turkishpolicy.com/article/965...d-the-alliance
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12-27-2021, 05:30 PM
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch
I didn't render an opinion on how Putin should have been stopped. I asked you "So, what's to stop Putin from invading Ukraine now"?
And opinions on NATO being weakened or strengthened during Trump's administration are prone to being politicized. Here's one for you that's more balanced and says NATO became stronger and it criticizes Trump but says that NATO was strengthened partially in spite of Trump and partially because of him:
http://turkishpolicy.com/article/965...d-the-alliance
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Turkish Policy Quarterly is an Istanbul-based quarterly magazine
From 2018 From Turkeys no less
Not sue if you missed theses in the article
Paradoxically Trumps attacks on the alliance are actually strengthening the alliance defenders are coming out the woodwork especially in Congress. Jedi mind trick?
Or how about “ European confidence in American leadership has plunged during Trumps watch
So basically Trumps incompetent behavior and treatment towards NATO accidentally strengthens NATO LOL
The only person stopping Putin is Putin
Risk vs reward
only the Trump fan club think Trumps masculinity kept Putin out and Biden is weak
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12-27-2021, 06:07 PM
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
Turkish Policy Quarterly is an Istanbul-based quarterly magazine
From 2018 From Turkeys no less
Not sue if you missed theses in the article
Paradoxically Trumps attacks on the alliance are actually strengthening the alliance defenders are coming out the woodwork especially in Congress. Jedi mind trick?
Or how about “ European confidence in American leadership has plunged during Trumps watch
So basically Trumps incompetent behavior and treatment towards NATO accidentally strengthens NATO LOL
The only person stopping Putin is Putin
Risk vs reward
only the Trump fan club think Trumps masculinity kept Putin out and Biden is weak
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Criticizing NATO, especially when criticism is needed, is not "attacking" NATO. Calling criticism "attacking" is oppositional framing. Criticizing flaws in an alliance is needed to strengthen it, not make it weaker. Signaling that you may leave a bad alliance should motivate corrections rather than only complaints. It was already weakened before Trump. Stiffening a few wobbly spines may raise some bitchy complaints. But it's for the better. No doubt Biden will build it better. At least he'll frame it that way.
So what do you think the risks and rewards are for Putin to attack. By "attack," I mean an actual physical, armed attack, not political verbiage.
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12-27-2021, 07:09 PM
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
Turkish Policy Quarterly is an Istanbul-based quarterly magazine
From 2018 From Turkeys no less
The writer of the article is Charles A. Kupchan a Professor of International Affairs at Georgetown University and Senior Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. Is that good enough for you?
Not sue if you missed theses in the article
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Kupchan gave the "good" and the "bad." Overall, he said that NATO was strengthened during Trump, not weakened. And that, overall, Trump aided in the strengthening. As I said, his opinion is more balanced (as opposed to politically driven opinions).
Not sure if you also missed this: https://thehill.com/opinion/national...vigorated-nato
Last edited by detbuch; 12-27-2021 at 07:24 PM..
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12-27-2021, 08:19 PM
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#36
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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If you were Ukraine, Russia today would be like a person you divorced thirty years ago because he was beating you, now coming back with a knife saying you belong to him.
With all your neighbors standing around saying how concerned they are but doing nothing to help as they don’t want to make him angry.
And he claims that the knife is not to attack you but to protect himself from your new boyfriend. Claims he feels threatened by the guy you’re about to marry while you’re not even engaged yet.
It says something about Russia that even Bulgaria, once renowned as the unofficial 16th republic of the USSR, couldn't wait to join the EU and NATO.
But keep arguing for the most corrupt oligarchy in the world.
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12-27-2021, 09:03 PM
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Libtardia
Posts: 21,591
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There has been a lot of drama surrounding Russian Gas flowing into Western Europe and i wonder if Putin is going to use Ukraine as a bartering chip for pipeline approvals.
Just a hunch
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12-27-2021, 10:37 PM
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
But keep arguing for the most corrupt oligarchy in the world.
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Who's doing that?
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12-28-2021, 05:50 AM
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
only the Trump fan club think Trumps masculinity kept Putin out and Biden is weak
iPhone/Mobile device[/i][/size]
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so you are saying Russia annexed Crimea because they feared obama...they annexed/invaded nobody during the trump years because trump was a weak puppet of putin and now they are threatening to invade Ukraine because biden is a strong leader and they are terribly afraid...
makes sense to me
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12-28-2021, 05:53 AM
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
So basically Trumps incompetent behavior and treatment towards NATO accidentally strengthens NATO LOL
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this is your bias screaming....HELP
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12-28-2021, 09:40 AM
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
so you are saying Russia annexed Crimea because they feared obama...they annexed/invaded nobody during the trump years because trump was a weak puppet of putin and now they are threatening to invade Ukraine because biden is a strong leader and they are terribly afraid...
makes sense to me
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I am not surprised
No I have said Putin invaded Crimea because he wanted to
He’s afraid of Biden because he’s fixing the damage done to nato by you know who, who questioned NATO existence and Trump Told G7 Leaders That Crimea Is Russian Because Everyone Speaks Russian In Crimea .. with his enablers out of the White House ! now he needs to change gears..
And if Putin does invade Ukraine there is not military response Biden could make with out congressional approval.. but most conservatives want a tough guy response it their viagra ,, sanctioning Russia isn’t masculine enough
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12-28-2021, 09:44 AM
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
this is your bias screaming....HELP
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Even you have fallen to his Jedi mind trick
If you think Trumps behavior towards nato was intentional .
With the goal of strengthening NATO
Last edited by The Dad Fisherman; 12-28-2021 at 10:45 AM..
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12-28-2021, 09:56 AM
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,197
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Russian court orders oldest civil rights group Memorial to shut
Curious timing
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12-28-2021, 11:04 AM
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,197
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Ric Grenell, former acting director of national intelligence, told Newsmax on Monday that Russian President Vladimir Putin is ''smelling weakness'' from the U.S. and President Joe Biden regarding the situation in Ukraine.
''It's really a problem because Putin is seeing weakness. He's smelling weakness,'
Like I said it’s all the right is pushing
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12-28-2021, 11:34 AM
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Last edited by The Dad Fisherman; 12-28-2021 at 12:22 PM..
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12-30-2021, 03:17 PM
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR
Huh? Jan 6 was stupid but it was not the greatest threat to American Democracy since the Civil War. No matter what Rachel Maddow says.
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January 6th isn’t about just that day, it’s the entire effort to manipulate fair election results, gaslight the public and undermine confidence in our democratic process. What we’ve learned already from the commission should be alarming to everyone.
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12-30-2021, 03:28 PM
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#47
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Ledge Runner Baits
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: I live in a house, but my soul is at sea.
Posts: 8,456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
January 6th isn’t about just that day, it’s the entire effort to manipulate fair election results, gaslight the public and undermine confidence in our democratic process. What we’ve learned already from the commission should be alarming to everyone.
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Not to the right, who are trying every which way they can to regain or hold on to power.
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12-30-2021, 03:52 PM
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
January 6th isn’t about just that day, it’s the entire effort to manipulate fair election results, gaslight the public and undermine confidence in our democratic process. What we’ve learned already from the commission should be alarming to everyone.
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and after the 2016 election when democrats were asking the electors not to cast their votes for Trump, what was that, exactly?
i’m with you on january 6, but i can’t help but notice how, well, selective you are in terms of when you’re opposed to interfering with the democratic process, and when you seem to be fine with it. shockingly, you’re consistently ok with it when your side does it. but that’s just a coincidence.
when elected democrats in the TX state legislature hopped on a chartered jet to flee
the state so that the legislative process could not function, did you call that out?
When rioters stormed the WI state capital because the republicans had passed legislation weakening labor union influence, that was ok with you.
When stacey abrams says her election was stolen, not a peep from you.
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12-30-2021, 04:14 PM
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#49
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,189
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Do as I say, not as I do
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12-30-2021, 04:30 PM
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman
Do as I say, not as I do
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and both sides constantly do it, obviously, politics attracts the worst. but they’ll never admit it. never. they can’t. democrats are always right, republicans are always wrong, because life is just that simple.
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12-30-2021, 04:36 PM
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
and after the 2016 election when democrats were asking the electors not to cast their votes for Trump, what was that, exactly?
i’m with you on january 6, but i can’t help but notice how, well, selective you are in terms of when you’re opposed to interfering with the democratic process, and when you seem to be fine with it. shockingly, you’re consistently ok with it when your side does it. but that’s just a coincidence.
when elected democrats in the TX state legislature hopped on a chartered jet to flee
the state so that the legislative process could not function, did you call that out?
When rioters stormed the WI state capital because the republicans had passed legislation weakening labor union influence, that was ok with you.
When stacey abrams says her election was stolen, not a peep from you.
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More false equivalencies
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12-30-2021, 05:04 PM
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
More false equivalencies
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More as in added to yours.
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12-30-2021, 05:24 PM
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
More false equivalencies
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Trump won fair and and square in 2016, and some in your side asked the electors to subvert democracy and cast their votes for someone else.
saying “false equivalencies” with zero support (as usual) makes you look stupid, weak,,and desperate.
the whole idea of superdelegates on the left, is a specific attempt to give the democrats the ability to undermine democracy when they don’t happen to like the results of the democratic process. it’s completely antithetical to democracy. the superdelegates aren’t elected, yet they get to overrule the democratic process in primaries.
try making that even a little bit wrong.
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12-30-2021, 05:34 PM
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#54
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Trump won fair and and square in 2016, and some in your side asked the electors to subvert democracy and cast their votes for someone else.
saying “false equivalencies” with zero support (as usual) makes you look stupid, weak,,and desperate.
the whole idea of superdelegates on the left, is a specific attempt to give the democrats the ability to undermine democracy when they don’t happen to like the results of the democratic process. it’s completely antithetical to democracy. the superdelegates aren’t elected, yet they get to overrule the democratic process in primaries.
try making that even a little bit wrong.
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Pretty simple to make it wrong
There’s no provision for “primaries” in the Constitution.
In fact the current two party system is the founder’s nightmare.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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12-30-2021, 05:40 PM
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#55
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Pretty simple to make it wrong
There’s no provision for “primaries” in the Constitution.
In fact the current two party system is the founder’s nightmare.
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ok.
how about the left, after the 2016 election, asking electors to ignore the outcome of our democratic process, the left didn’t like the outcome, so they tried to change the outcome after a free election.
isn’t that pretty much what trump was asking for on january 6th?
have fun with that.
there are democrats in congress today, who objected to states’ electors casting their votes for trump after the 2016 election. but as always, it’s ok when they do it.
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12-30-2021, 05:42 PM
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Trump won fair and and square in 2016, and some in your side asked the electors to subvert democracy and cast their votes for someone else.
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Couple a Sanders supporters, a few wanted some to go against Clinton also.
Quote:
saying “false equivalencies” with zero support (as usual) makes you look stupid, weak,,and desperate.
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No it just means I’m tired of your - I read on a tabloid two years ago and can’t drop it - level of insight.
Quote:
the whole idea of superdelegates on the left, is a specific attempt to give the democrats the ability to undermine democracy when they don’t happen to like the results of the democratic process. it’s completely antithetical to democracy. the superdelegates aren’t elected, yet they get to overrule the democratic process in primaries.
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Actually super delegates represented a small minority of overall delegates, but it’s kid of moot anyway as they only use them in contested primaries now.
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12-30-2021, 05:45 PM
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
Couple a Sanders supporters, a few wanted some to go against Clinton also.
No it just means I’m tired of your - I read on a tabloid two years ago and can’t drop it - level of insight.
Actually super delegates represented a small minority of overall delegates, but it’s kid of moot anyway as they only use them in contested primaries now.
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that whole post s a joke.
yes, superdelegates only matter in close primaries. but why not just trust the democrat voters? why do unelected superdelegates get to overrule the results of a free and fair election?
why was it ok when democrats asked electors not to cast their votes for trump? why wasn’t that undermining free and fair elections?
you can’t begin to make that wrong. lobbing baseless insults just proves my point.
everything is ok when democrats do it.
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12-30-2021, 07:43 PM
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#58
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
ok.
how about the left, after the 2016 election, asking electors to ignore the outcome of our democratic process, the left didn’t like the outcome, so they tried to change the outcome after a free election.
isn’t that pretty much what trump was asking for on january 6th?
have fun with that.
there are democrats in congress today, who objected to states’ electors casting their votes for trump after the 2016 election. but as always, it’s ok when they do it.
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No, You’re wrong
It’s not fun, it’s the greatest threat to the constitution since the war between the states.
And let’s not forget Y’all are acting like you’ve never seen a 43 year old Governor who only won by 30k votes in a State with 21m people who he failed to protect from a deadly virus for 2 years so he could suck-up to MAGA base & imitate a septuagenarian grifter go missing for 2 weeks at Xmas before.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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12-30-2021, 08:04 PM
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#59
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
No, You’re wrong
It’s not fun, it’s the greatest threat to the constitution since the war between the states.
And let’s not forget Y’all are acting like you’ve never seen a 43 year old Governor who only won by 30k votes in a State with 21m people who he failed to protect from a deadly virus for 2 years so he could suck-up to MAGA base & imitate a septuagenarian grifter go missing for 2 weeks at Xmas before.
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why is it wrong for trump to try and undermine an election, but no problem when democrats did it in 2016?you keep dancing around that, can’t imagine why.
you say desantis failed, but you won’t say that about Cuomo, whose numbers are worse despite having a fewer percentage of elderly.
You’re a thoughtless political hack. you are the exact, precise mirror image of sean hannity, you’re exactly as predictable as he is. Do you not see that? You’re the same parrot that he is.
So according to your side, Cuomo was the “gold standard “ in covid leadership. And even though Desantis has a lower death rate ( with more seniors and fewer lockdowns), he failed??
That just makes ALL KINDS of sense.
And huge numbers of people
are moving to FL. So America doesn’t agree with you, Pete. You’re scared sh*tless of Desantis, and it shows, and you’re right to be.
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Last edited by Jim in CT; 12-30-2021 at 08:20 PM..
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12-30-2021, 08:20 PM
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#60
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Keep making up baloney
You tried to make primaries, which only exist in the realm of political parties equivalent to a general election.
Then you falsely claim some equivalence between Cuomo and DeathSantis
Poor victim
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