this is brilliant

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

nice, paying to undermine America How if someone lies on a registration form is that undermining America if they didn't vote? Weren't some of the names obviously fake?


how would you know? - Well, how would you know that they voted? We've heard many stories about Acorn and voter fraud. I would have thought you could pull up many articles about how numerous folks got arrested for voter fraud related to the Acorn registrations?

Paul, you said earlier you would not have an issue with being required to show an id to vote. All O'Keefe is doing is showing how easy it is to commit voter fraud, and thus highlight the need for some common sense protocals. He's not doing anything wrong.

Common sense suggests that you can't just identify yourself verbally and vote as whomever you say you are. The 2000 presidential election was decisded by a cat's whisker, that clearly shows how vital it is that elections are conducted fairly.

I've asked a few times what the big deal is. Not one liberal has addressed that. Spence says identity verification causes disenfranchisement, which is as hard to type as antidisestablishmentarianism. I'm not suere what it means (I'm not sure what either word means), but I am sure that it's supposed to make id verification look "mean".

I just cannot see how any rational person can feel slighted when asked to show an id to vote. It's about protecting one's rights, not violating one's rights...

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Paul, you said earlier you would not have an issue with being required to show an id to vote. All O'Keefe is doing is showing how easy it is to commit voter fraud, and thus highlight the need for some common sense protocals. He's not doing anything wrong.

Yes, in my opinion a free Id is not a big deal. But I'm also confused why it is such a big issue if there is no wide spread fraud. O'Keefe isn't showing voter fraud, he is showing registration fraud. I don't know what happens to a registration card that has an obviously fake name.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Did OKeefe dress up like Huggy Bear this time?

[buckman]

I'm 50 years old and I need to show an ID to buy spray paint!!!! This is nuts!!

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Spence, are you saying that verifying identity at the voting booth will cause "disenfranchisement"? Can you please explain?

I have to show id at the doctors office, at my kids' school, when I buy prescriptions aty the pharmacy, when I get on a plane. WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL? When asked to verify id, my rights (specifically my right to vote) is being protected, my rights aren't being violated.

It never occurred to me to feel disenfranchised, whatever the hell that is...

makes you wonder what all the potentially disenfranchised do the other 364 days a year with no form of identification ....doesn't it?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Yes O'Keefe isn't showing voter fraud, he is showing registration fraud. I don't know what happens to a registration card that has an obviously fake name.

he went to Holder's primary polling location and demonstrated how easy it would have been to get a ballot and vote...even using the name of a very high level official, the only reason he didn't get a ballot is because he insisted on getting his ID first, the poll worker never asked for an ID and told him that he didn't need it, simply said "sign here"....if it were a dead guy he'd asked for or if Holder decided to not vote in the primary and he'd signed and taken the ballot he could have voted without any issue and no way of anyone knowing that he'd done so...I think that would be voter fraud

how is he showing "registration fraud"? was Holder fraudulently registered?

the fact that this doesn't disturb you beyond venom for O'Keefe & Co. is a little disturbing

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by scottw

he went to Holder's primary polling location and demonstrated how easy it would have been to get a ballot and vote...so your saying he voted? B/c otherwise we can only speculate if he could have voted. I know the lemmings have been told to constantly bring up voter fraud but where is the wide spread voter fraud?


the fact that this doesn't disturb you beyond venom for O'Keefe & Co. is a little disturbing

I think what he does his sleazy - the way he constantly lies to people. So I guess people lying doesn't disturb you

If I had venom I would constantly start threads about the minor things that I read about every day. - Like Cantor donating $ to help defeat fellow Repubs. or some racist hacking into roads signs saying T. Martin is N***** or Santorium dropping out b/f the primary in his home state in which he was behind

[spence]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I think what he does his sleazy - the way he constantly lies to people. So I guess people lying doesn't disturb you

There's a line between what he does and journalism. What O'Keefe does is a stunt to get himself publicity.

Like with the Acorn videos, he should have mentioned that a number of locations called the police about his actions.

The irony is that the crack head response is to snort more rather than look at the situation objectively. It's the exact same accusation Sowell makes of the Left.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

so your saying he voted? B/c otherwise we can only speculate if he could have voted.

Poll Worker: I do. Xxxx 50th Street NW. Okay. [Puts check next to name, indicating someone has shown up to vote.] Will you sign there . . .

Man: I actually forgot my ID.

Poll Worker: You don’t need it; it’s all right.

Poll Worker: As long as you’re in here, and you’re on our list and that’s who you say you are, we’re okay.


he clearly could have... which is the point that can't seem to grasp

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

There's a line between what he does and journalism. What O'Keefe does is a stunt to get himself publicity.

Like with the Acorn videos, he should have mentioned that a number of locations called the police about his actions.

The irony is that the crack head response is to snort more rather than look at the situation objectively. It's the exact same accusation Sowell makes of the Left.

-spence

DJIA 12805.39 ...you need to work a little harder and stop with the crack obsession

[RIROCKHOUND]

This is one of those issues, even though some on here label me a 'radical' I can see both sides.

Is it a major impediment to getting or showing a picture ID. No. Does it impact some people? Probably

Do I think voter fraud is that rampant? No. Otherwise we'd see numbers (like records of all these dead people voting for a democrat...)

IMHO not a major panty-wadding issue.... both sides treat it that way though

[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Do I think voter fraud is that rampant? No. Otherwise we'd see numbers (like records of all these dead people voting for a democrat...) the dead people would have to speak up in order for you to ever know

probably never happens much and has no real impact if it does

April 9, 2012

The latest fraud case in Indiana shows how foolish the claim is that no election fraud exists or that it is “inconsequential.”

Four Democratic party officials, including the St. Joseph County chairman Butch Morgan, have been charged with conspiracy, forgery, and official misconduct in the 2008 presidential primary election. Morgan allegedly ordered three county officials to duplicate signatures from a 2008 petition for Democratic gubernatorial candidate Jim Schellinger onto petitions for then-presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. The Republican member of the Board of Voter Registration’s signature, which is required for final authorization of all petitions, was apparently then rubber stamped without her knowledge. In Indiana, a candidate must secure 500 signatures from each of the state’s nine congressional districts in order to appear on the ballot. Then-senator Barack Obama barely qualified for the ballot with 534 signatures.

The South Bend Tribune collaborated with an independent political newsletter, Howey Politics Indiana, to conduct an investigation of the allegedly fake signatures. Erich Speckin, an expert forensic document analyst, told the paper that up to 270 of the ballot signatures for candidate Obama were fraudulent. “It’s obvious. It’s just terribly obvious” that the signatures on the various pages were made by the same hand, Speckin said after reviewing the documents. Previous investigations have already found no fewer than 150 fraudulent signatures on the petitions.

The fraud came to an end after a source from inside the county Democratic party who had participated personally in the scheme approached local investigators. Lucas Burkett attended meetings at the local Democratic party headquarters where Morgan ordered the forgeries. Investigators then compared the signatures on Obama and Clinton petitions to the signatures on file for registered voters, and contacted the voters whose names appeared on the forms, in order to confirm the signatures were forgeries.

Many common citizens were shocked and dismayed to see their own name and personal information on a petition they had supposedly signed four years earlier. “It’s scary. A lot of people have already lost faith in politics . . . and that solidifies our worries and concerns,” Mishawaka resident Charity Rorie.

There is no telling what other deceitful and illegal measures these local party officials were willing to take (or have taken in the past without detection) to steal an election. That is why we need to take steps throughout the voter registration, voting, and election process to secure the integrity of our elections. Voter ID is just one of the precautions necessary for a fair and honest vote.

Hans A. von Spakovsky is a senior legal fellow at the Heritage Foundation, a former FEC Commissioner, and the former counsel to the assistant attorney general for civil rights at the Justice Department.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Google's fun.

Does it happen, yes. On both sides, apparently
Is it rampant? I still say no.
BBCW: Voter Fraud Declared at Christian County, Missouri Republican Caucus: Rick Santorum Wins Fraudulent Caucus
Political Animal - Another GOP official commits election fraud

[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Google's fun.

Does it happen, yes. On both sides, apparently
Is it rampant? I still say no.
BBCW: Voter Fraud Declared at Christian County, Missouri Republican Caucus: Rick Santorum Wins Fraudulent Caucus
Political Animal - Another GOP official commits election fraud

I guess..."Bungalow Bills"??? that's a good one

how many examples till we get to "rampant"?

Bry, did you actually read either of those?

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by scottw

I guess..."Bungalow Bills"??? that's a good one

how many examples till we get to "rampant"?

Bry, did you actually read either of those?

Yes. One was a Caucus, the other was mostly making reference to voter suppression (albeit a creative approach) in Maryland.

So you see this is a major issue?
I'd much rather they tackle some campaign finance laws first. I think that's the more pressing issue.

I still want to know if Oqueef was dressed like a Pimp when he played Holder....

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

DJIA 12805.39 ...you need to work a little harder and stop with the crack obsession

What, that the market has had perhaps one of it's best quarters ever?

-spence

[scottw]

[QUOTE=RIROCKHOUND;932803]Yes. One was a Caucus, the other was mostly making reference to voter suppression (albeit a creative approach) in Maryland.

So you see this is a major issue?
QUOTE]

we're talking about voter fraud and id's

and you post one story from an unusual website involving the Missouri caucus another about a republican whose voter registration showed his ex-wife's address(can't see how that could happen) and then a campaign manager that approved some robo calls which**, while annoying, if you actually believe a strange unnamed voice that calls your house at night and tells you not to bother voting...maybe you shouldn't be voting in the first place

and that's your evidence that there is either no evidence or that everyone does it so it's no big deal?

I thought we did tackle campaign finance laws?

**WashPo
Ex-Ehrlich campaign manager Schurick convicted in robocall case - The Washington Post

The jury convicted Schurick — who got his start in politics working for Democrats — of trying to influence votes through fraud,guess we know where he learned how failing to identify the source of the call as required by law and two counts of conspiracy to commit those crimes.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

What, that the market has had perhaps one of it's best quarters ever?

-spence

you are supposed to be keeping it over 13,000...get back to work

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

you are supposed to be keeping it over 13,000...get back to work

I had a kick a$$ meeting today with a huge global producer of hydrogen, oxygen and other industrial chemicals. Went really well...

Market still had a great quarter...suck it up.

-spence

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by scottw

Poll Worker: I do. Xxxx 50th Street NW. Okay. [Puts check next to name, indicating someone has shown up to vote.] Will you sign there . . .

Man: I actually forgot my ID.

Poll Worker: You don’t need it; it’s all right.

Poll Worker: As long as you’re in here, and you’re on our list and that’s who you say you are, we’re okay.


he clearly could have... which is the point that can't seem to grasp

But he didn't vote. Maybe she was setting him up to see if he voted and then was going to call the cops. So, he didn't vote and there is no voter fraud in this situation.

[PaulS]

Is there a requirement in the constitution to have an id to vote

[Piscator]

Interesting............................."The Constitution never explicitly ensures the right to vote, as it does the right to speech, for example. It does require that Representatives be chosen and Senators be elected by "the People," and who comprises "the People" has been expanded by the aforementioned amendments several times. Aside from these requirements, though, the qualifications for voters are left to the states. And as long as the qualifications do not conflict with anything in the Constitution, that right can be withheld. For example, in Texas, persons declared mentally incompetent and felons currently in prison or on probation are denied the right to vote. It is interesting to note that though the 26th Amendment requires that 18-year-olds must be able to vote, states can allow persons younger than 18 to vote, if they chose to."

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

But he didn't vote. Maybe she was setting him up to see if he voted and then was going to call the cops. :

yeah, that's probably what was going on....

Paul, if you have to work this hard making so little sense it should tell you something

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

I had a kick a$$ meeting today with a huge global producer of hydrogen, oxygen and other industrial chemicals. Went really well...


-spence

you go girl...

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by spence

I had a kick a$$ meeting today with a huge global producer of hydrogen, oxygen and other industrial chemicals. Went really well...

Market still had a great quarter...suck it up.

-spence

I had a meeting last night just after dinner with a large producer of methane and it wasn't pretty

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by scottw

yeah, that's probably what was going on....

Paul, if you have to work this hard making so little sense it should tell you something

Ok, you win. It was voter fraud even though no fraud occurred

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by scottw

you are supposed to be keeping it over 13,000...get back to work

Ya Spence, I figured you musta been on vacation.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Ok, you win. It was voter fraud even though no fraud occurred

you are the only one that claimed that he did anything wrong, noone said he committed voter fraud...just demonstrated that he could have...quite easily


Paul, if someone walked into your house, threw your dog a steak to preoccupy him and went to the jewellery in your bedroom and was about to take it but heard a noise outside and left...

I guess you'd claim that while he may have committed a crime(or lied in the voter case) by entering your house, he never actually took anything so there's no proof that he "could have" taken something if he'd wanted to and therefore any discussion of whether or not he could have taken your jewellery or the relative ease with which he could have taken it or the fact that he just walked into your house and so easily got by your guard dog has absolutely no bearing on the theftproofness/vunerability of your home....

and you might even claim that your dog was in fact "setting the burgular up" and while he appeared to be distracted and thoroughly enjoying the steak, he actually had on eye on the burgular and was planning to dial 911 as soon as he touched the goods ?

and finally..

"Ok, you win. It was theft even though no theft occurred"

which isn't really funny because noone claimed that a theft(voter fraud) occurred, we were just pointing out that it would be, based on the evidence, really easy to steal your jewellery, but you can't seem to grasp that.

and then imagine that rather than your home, we were talking about the home of the top home security consultant in America who had been for years claiming that home invasions in his neighborood and elsewhere were overstated

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Ok, you win. It was voter fraud even though no fraud occurred

I told you Scott, you win. It was voter fraud. We need to change everything b/c there is wide spread voter fraud and b/c O'Keefe (I guess?) committed voter fraud. It says it in the constitution that everyone needs an ID and we need to get it done. - Is that good enough?

[Piscator]

Make everyone show an ID.

As good old Benjamin Franklin once said “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.”

Hell, back then only land owners could vote. Looking back its not a bad idea