Too Many Commercial Plug Builders Now?

[JohnR]

Originally posted by Zeno
cause they were free ?

I felt that Gibb's took a down turn a few years back in the quality of plugs but they do seem to be listening and the plugs have improved since - just my opinion

[basswipe]

A good wood plug at a competative price is worth it.

That's why I will always buy Salty's plugs.Made in USA catching USA bass at a price I CAN afford!

[TheRattBoy]

There's no such thing as a bad free plug!
I just can't believe how fast guys are becoming sellers these days, lotsa newbies have stuff in shops for sale....do what you want , but i'm buying time tested plugs... johnny

[Flaptail]

No not because they were free, but because they listened and wanted to know what I thought and these plugs reflect that. The color was always productive and the finish and paint has improved. Last year they came out with that Herring color ( kinda of black/silver/pearl) and between needlefish and medium Dannys ( especially at Fishers Island with the danny last fall) in that pattern we knew they had a winner. I was sent a couple of this "new" color two years ago to test and they consistently caught fish. I am glad to have somehow helped Dan and Dennis with thier eagerness to get products out that experienced bass fishermen would want. One thing you all have to remember is the foremost reason they bought Gibbs is because they did not want to see it end. They knew that they were not the most experienced plug makers but no one else was in the running and if they did not buy Gibbs the line would be gone. I admire them for doing that. They didn't need to but they did because they had the where with all. They knew the companies history and did not want to see that go. The learning curve was a big obstacle and there were many bumps in the road but I think they did a great job of trying thier best to overcome them and the nay sayers who, not understanding what it takes to make the product or what goes into it, who jumped all over them because at first they had troubles putting all the pieces together. Not many full time striper plug makers left.

[Raven]

reading the words:

unavailable..........out of stock....when you see the plug you want to use or own

so more plug makers makes for more availability

most guys are making them to never run out or to have exactly the look or presentation they want which is great!

[Krispy]

If you put all 4 options together, you'd probably have summed my thoughts

[capesams]

I must have asked Jimmy c atleast 8 times..Jim when your ready to sell the Gibbs co. let me know[before they went south] I'll b there with check in hand..between another old capecodder and myself that co. would still be here where it started out, being built far better than it was before...it's gone forever now

[5/0]

Has anybody try to make plug's out of a different medium?
I think that alone would be the way to seperate you're self from other makers,I think it'll offer a different edge.
1. better/stronger more durability
2.hold a finish better
3.after a mold is made they could be mass produced vs the duplicator.

My .02

5/0

[fishweewee]

5/0...

Injected molded plastic is one alternative (Super Strike).

Plastic foam another (Atom).

I think these are easier to manufacture in bulk and at lower cost. However, as of late, the cost of resins has been driven up due to oil pricec.

Maybe wood is cheaper material to work with right now.

[Gloucester2]

Originally posted by fishweewee
5/0...

Injected molded plastic is one alternative (Super Strike).

Plastic foam another (Atom).

I think these are easier to manufacture in bulk and at lower cost. However, as of late, the cost of resins has been driven up due to oil pricec.

Maybe wood is cheaper material to work with right now.

You a fisherman or Alan Greenspan protege?

[fishweewee]

[5/0]

Nice
I agree wood is a easyer medium to work with plus it's abundancy & types Teek,oak,ash ect....I think it's great to work with it & it has very forgiving property's as a medium.

I also like the Yo-Zori line of Surface Cruiser I think they use somthing like "poly-balsa"? SP?
I have a bunch that have been banged on rock's & just plain-ol abused from fish,they still hold there shape & no chipping to the body but the paint get's a little beat.If one wanted IM sure you could touch it up or ultimatly sand it down & give it you're own paint job.

I'd like to get into molding some I think one of the hardest part could be getting the plastic.

[fishweewee]

That's why I like Super Strike darters and poppers. They take serious abuse, even on the rocks.

[5/0]

I never tried the Super strikes,Ill have too try some this season.


5/0

[Gloucester2]

Originally posted by fishweewee

Nice bum Sailor . . . you going to the gathering Saturday

We can have a beer and talk stagflation, supply side economics and trickle-down theory . . . .

[fishweewee]

Actually, let's talk about obscure itemized deductions and sneaky ways to get out of the AMT. That's more actionable stuff.

[Raven]

eliminate the non essentials.... then have another cocktail

[Saltheart]

Stagflation....slack flood tide at the canal?

Supply side economics....a blitz??

Trickle down theory......when you have to pee bad but the bass are biting???

[SeaWolf]

is there a saturation, maybe. i see a lot of "casual builders" and that's cool. but, if you start selling, you better start thinking about uncle sam before he comes knocking. i know of one that was pinched in the last few years. but, that's a whole other issue.

a few guys have made the niche plug and have done well. some have tried to copy it to follow the leader. i only know of a few companies/builders that i trust for their quality on each and every lure. i don't need to examine each one to see if it's true or will swim right. rarely are they a problem. they use the best processes building them. some even go a step further and put the best hardware on the lures, which is always a big plus. i have no problem spending $20 on a lure if it does what i want. one fish over 20#s and the lure paid for itself. but, i also believe that the cream always rises to the top. the same is true for lure manufacturers. i've seen it in the surf too many times. many want to play the game, but they leave only after a few seasons. how many of these guys will be around after 2, 3, 6 years of trying to get into the game and find out what supply and emand is really all about. make 50 a year, great. now, make a few thousand +, the same quality each time and do it over and over and...

cowhunter, i agree w/ you about live bait and boat fishing, but you cannot fish in a boat in a gale and you cannot throw eels in the surf during a gale w/ the wind in your teeth. only a couple lures will work in those conditions. so, there is always a need. anyone can buy a "great lure", but it the guy that knows when to throw what that cashes in.

as for this new gibbs line, why don't they pay attention a little and do some homework. lose the crap mustad hooks. i'd rather pay an additional dollar for a lure and get vmc's than worry about my mustad straightening out or breaking under minimal pressure. go back 15-25 years and see how your lures used to be made. copy those designs again, not the latest designs that the last 2 joker buyers produced. they are all junk.

[fishweewee]

Originally posted by Saltheart
Stagflation....slack flood tide at the canal?

Supply side economics....a blitz??

Trickle down theory......when you have to pee bad but the bass are biting???

Well, really I'm more concerned about what to do when you're in the middle of a blitz and you have to scratch your butt but you have your waders and oilskin top on and you can't reach around.

[Pete F.]

Originally posted by SeaWolf
as for this new gibbs line, why don't they pay attention a little and do some homework. lose the crap mustad hooks. i'd rather pay an additional dollar for a lure and get vmc's than worry about my mustad straightening out or breaking under minimal pressure. go back 15-25 years and see how your lures used to be made. copy those designs again, not the latest designs that the last 2 joker buyers produced. they are all junk.

Cost difference would be maybe 25 cents?

[Flaptail]

Seawolf, did you read what I posted? Joker Buyers? Who else was there? Have you ever talked with them personally? Did you call them and have an intelligent discussion on upgrades and what fishermen like yourself would like to see or do you just pompously type in your thoughts on a thread like this? Lot's of good that does.

Forget the .25 adder. You got the split ring, Vmc hook ( which rust just as fast) the time involved ( another step in the process) and the change in balance with the splits and hooks being that much offset and the slight increase in weight. If I was making them I would not sell them with hooks, like Beachmaster. Then you wouldn't have to listen to comments like the previous.

[Clogston29]

Selling them without hooks may result in a decrease in because less serious anglers, ones who would never think to change a hook never mind do it, would just not buy the plugs because they came without hooks. You’d be targeting a smaller group of serious fishermen. This would only be a good idea if you had to quality and reputation to support enough of them to sustain the business, like Beachmaster. Personally, I use Gibbs needles and pencil poppers quite often and just except having to change the hooks, much as I do with Super Strike plugs. To me, the main problem with Gibbs plugs over the last few years has simply been quality control – something that is difficult to control while keeping costs down in a labor intensive industry. Most of them are pretty good, you just have to look them over before buying one, difficult to do on-line. Shipping the work overseas would lower the cost of labor but is the industry large enough to offset shipping, insurance, etc. Just my opinion.

As far as being too many builders out there selling their stuff; I don’t think there are too many. The market will sort itself out. I don’t think there is room for many people to make a living off selling plugs commercially because the market is very regional and specific, but there is plenty of room for hobbyists, for lack of a better word, to make some extra money doing something that they enjoy doing anyway.

[FishermanTim]

It's a lot like fly tying.
othing beats the feeling you get when you catch a fish on something that YOU made from scratch.
Sure, others make some SWEET plugs, but your buying THEIR creation, and they use their own color scheme.
When you make your own, you control the entire process, and you learn more about the process from your trails and errors.
I'll tell you, nothing felt as exhilirating as catching a rainbow trout or striper on flies that I tied, and I can't wait to try some homemade plugs this year.

[Pete F.]

Originally posted by Flaptail
Seawolf, did you read what I posted? Joker Buyers? Who else was there? Have you ever talked with them personally? Did you call them and have an intelligent discussion on upgrades and what fishermen like yourself would like to see or do you just pompously type in your thoughts on a thread like this? Lot's of good that does.

Forget the .25 adder. You got the split ring, Vmc hook ( which rust just as fast) the time involved ( another step in the process) and the change in balance with the splits and hooks being that much offset and the slight increase in weight. If I was making them I would not sell them with hooks, like Beachmaster. Then you wouldn't have to listen to comments like the previous.

My opinion, which is all it is, is that VMC hooks would add a value which may be percieved or real. Yes it would cost money and you may need to do some research to make it work. I think it would sell more plugs for them.
Gibbs was one of the great pioneers in plugbuilding and made and sold a lot of plugs.
There are a lot of analogies for companies that made great products and never changed them as time went by and went out of vogue, of course there are a few that have never changed and are still around, I just can't think of one.
I'm quite sure that VMC hooks and splitrings would cost less for material.

[leptar]

Originally posted by fishweewee
That's why I like Super Strike darters and poppers. They take serious abuse, even on the rocks.

your not throwing them hard enough... LOL...

[Zeno]

Last time i spoke with Don Musso from Super Strike he mentioned that he can buy VMC hooks for less than Mustads.The problem is that they don't come open-eye.So cost is not an issue

[BigFish]

Closed eye with split rings only for this guy!

[Flaptail]

Split rings have no place on a plug. It should always be hook to swivel or tail loop. I can't understand why VMC doesn't get it. Thank God for Dremel tools. I hate the sight of them on a plug, I use them but I hate 'em.

[BigFish]

The fish can't tell the difference Steve but I can. IMO I think the split ring adds a little more seductive wiggle not to mention strength. If you like those foolish open eye hooks then good luck to you then....I will stick with what works for me and always has.