Big Danny Help

[steelhead]

NIB, I'm trying to picture in my mind what you're doing with the scrap wire. Doesn't sound like you've done any drilling yet. You somehow wrap the wire around the plug and the slide hooks up and down the wire? Then water test in a bucket or the kitchen sink to see how it sits in the water?

I've sometimes put .1 ounce of lead in the tail to help stabalize the plug when I cast. Doesn't seem to affect the action too much.

[numbskull]

The big "Danny" I x-rayed has a lead plug 1/2" wide by 1/2" deep (actually a tad more since the top is slightly conical) set deep all the way up against the wire. Of interest, I also shot through a commercially available wooden Atom reproduction. Both the large and small version, in contrast to the original, carry a 1/2" x 1/4+" belly weight, and a 1/4" x 1" through wire tail weight.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by numbskull

The big "Danny" I x-rayed has a lead plug 1/2" wide by 1/2" deep (actually a tad more since the top is slightly conical) set deep all the way up against the wire. Of interest, I also shot through a commercially available wooden Atom reproduction. Both the large and small version, in contrast to the original, carry a 1/2" x 1/4+" belly weight, and a 1/4" x 1" through wire tail weight.

can you bring that info next weekend? that sounds like alot of tailweight for a swimmer

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

can you bring that info next weekend? that sounds like alot of tailweight for a swimmer

Yeah, I'll bring it, but I'd prefer not to post xrays of currently available plugs. I agree, it was suprising to find it, particularly in the smaller version. But I can vouch for the plugs' effectiveness, and I even fish the smaller version in current with oversized hooks. I think there is something to be said for slowing down the tail action on swimmers, particularly when used at night for bigger fish. Along the same lines, I'm not a big fan of very light wood for swimmers. I've made a few out of basswood. They're too bouyant. I've ended up putting alot of lead at the balance point of the plug, but the plug pivots too much for my taste and they've never caught well. Perhaps I'll try a bit less weight in the center and split the rest between the chin and tail next time (though it seems simpler to just use pine).

[steelhead]

Were the original Atom 40's not weighted?

[NIB]

Originally Posted by steelhead

NIB, I'm trying to picture in my mind what you're doing with the scrap wire. Doesn't sound like you've done any drilling yet. You somehow wrap the wire around the plug and the slide hooks up and down the wire? Then water test in a bucket or the kitchen sink to see how it sits in the water?'

I've sometimes put .1 ounce of lead in the tail to help stabalize the plug when I cast. Doesn't seem to affect the action too much.

I basically assemble the plug without finishing the tail rap to find the center in reference to balance of the plug.In this condition I balance on a pencil an mark the spot.
On the weight in the tail its ok for a headwind plug with some surf or current.I never weight em like this though.I'll trow a BM type danny in a wind it goes a mile.The smaller plug is less affected by wind.

[NIB]

Originally Posted by steelhead

Were the original Atom 40's not weighted?

The plastic ones are not weighted
The plastic thru the center of the plg is like 4 times as thick as the outside.an it runs from top to bottom.I'm sure it was designed like that.Not just assembled like that.Giant pike's where weighted.What looks to be a 3/16 hole in the belly.they also have lead in the nose in the thru wire hole.I would guess 3/16" by 3/4" with a hole big enough for the doubled wire t go thru.

[Jigman]

Steelhead,

When testing plugs, this is a trick I've put to use in determining hook locations (I believe pasurfer turned me on to it). Drill the thru-hole and weight hole as normal, but do not drill the swivel holes. Take a variety of hooks, a few screw eyes, and your drill with you to test. Stick the screw eyes in the plug where you think the hooks should go, and test. Using the screw eyes, you can move the hook locations up and down the plug as needed to check the action. Many times I'll go as far as predrilling holes at 1/4 or 1/8 inch increments (depends on the size of the plug) down the centerline of the belly to allow for quicker testing. Once you find the best hook location for that style of plug, take the notes as NIB suggested, then knock out a couple more with that set up (swivels holes drilled and everything). Test them out. If they work like you want, you are good to go. If not, should just be some minor tweaking. Note that you can also use a screw eye as the line tie to test out several line tie locations too. By the time I'm done testing a proto-type like this, it probably is not fishable, but at least I'll know how all the other plugs should be built. You can do the same thing with belly weights, lips, and wood types too.

Jigman

[steelhead]

NIB, I got it now. You don't drill the weight until you "Set the plug up" with the hooks, lip, etc., Balance and drill.

[ProfessorM]

When you say balanced do you mean make the thing equally balanced from front to back balancing on a center point so it is basicly level? Do you ever make the plug heavier toward the front or heavier toward the back and would there be any benefit to having it any of these ways or are you shooting for the thing to be on a level plane?

[PASurfer]

Every swimmer has a pivot point in it's wiggle... some -- like those classed as finnish minnows -- are near the nose and normally can't/shouldn't be weighted without destroying or modifying the swim action. Shapes like a Danny will tend to pivot more centrally in the body, very near if not dead-on the body's balance point.

I always look for the balance point with the lip and tail that I intend to use mounted on the body, but without a belly hook. NIB says he balances them on a pencil. I use an old hacksaw blade (cutting edge up) clamped in a vice. Not real scientific, but you just "feel around", moving the body ever so slightly forwards or back, until it balances on the blade. Then I press down gently, while rolling the body side to side, and get a perforated mark that shows were the balance point is. I do this with virtually every new proto I start to work on, just to get a reference point on the body. Sometimes, that's where I want to set a single belly hook. Sometimes, as is the case with a Danny. that balance point where I would normally put a hook might be a little too far back from the head, so you need to add a bit of lead (as a counter weight) somewhere behind the weightless balance line... where and how much lead depends on how far "up" I want to hang the hook... but the objective of this is to keep the body balancing at the original point.

I'm not a big fan of multiple belly hooks, but if it's got to have them to look and swim right, then placing the hooks an equal distance fore and aft of the balance point will usually get you in the ball park of their final position.

Hope that's clear enough to give you some ideas.

[Diggin Jiggin]

P.M., dannies are basically balanced, so if like you said you balanced it on a center point on teh edge of like a hacksaw blade, it would be nearly balanced. That beings said, once you introduce current into it, I don't think it needs to be balanced dead center.

I make a large danny 7 1/2 " to fish in a big rip with fast moving water and while it is weighted dead center to act as a pivot point, its also got a small tail weight. The action of the current on the lip more than makes up for the tail weight, and just a small amount of lead in the tail will take all of the tumble out of the cast.

I do make some slope headed swimmers that are weighted up under the chin, and in that case moving the weight forward helps get the chin down so the head will dig down, and that one pivots more on its head with its tail wagging the surface but it's not a danny...

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Professor Moriarty

When you say balanced do you mean make the thing equally balanced from front to back balancing on a center point so it is basicly level? Do you ever make the plug heavier toward the front or heavier toward the back and would there be any benefit to having it any of these ways or are you shooting for the thing to be on a level plane?

Subsurface swimmers are often weighted ahead of their balance point. Most surface swimmers are weighted at their balance point ( as NIB explained, be sure to temporarily wire the lip and hang hooks before you balance the unfinished body on a knife edge to find the center), but there is no reason you can't add weight in the chin or tail to slow the action. As explained in other threads (Jigman perhaps?), the weight acts as a pivot point (actually the real pivot point is the line tie, but the weight modifies how fast the rear of the plug wags behind it). A forward weight results in a larger/slower tail wag, a midline weight speeds things up and adds some roll. A little tail weight is also useful to make a plug more stable in the air, or to suppress the action in fast moving water.

EDIT. Took too long to type this one. Pa and dig said the same thing better.

[ProfessorM]

Thanks guys.

[steelhead]

This has been a very helpful thread for me. I had no idea when I asked for help that it would become SO HELPFUL!!! Wow! Each plug will still need its own little touch, but man, a whole lot less fumbling to get there! This thread has been copied to a word doc and filed under "how to tips". Just great!

[capesams]

Originally Posted by steelhead

Were the original Atom 40's not weighted?

tail weight......1/4 dia. x 2 -1/8" long.

[steelhead]

Wow! That's a lot of lead! Slow wiggle?

[capesams]

yes,,,but she still floats tail up...v wake...lotta wood on these old gal's......

[NarragansettBil]

SteelHead:

How did you make out with the big Danny? Does it swim well?

[steelhead]

I did several profiles and lips. One swims Pissah :-)

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by PASurfer

I use an old hacksaw blade (cutting edge up) clamped in a vice. Not real scientific, but you just "feel around", moving the body ever so slightly forwards or back, until it balances on the blade. Then I press down gently, while rolling the body side to side, and get a perforated mark that shows were the balance point is. I do this with virtually every new proto I start to work on, just to get a reference point on the body.

Hope that's clear enough to give you some ideas.

Thanks ,,,great info .. I usually just wing it .. take them for a swim ,then smash them with a hammer.. Your way is much better..
Hydro-orientated,balanced...gotta be some kinda wind tunnel test too..