Boats don't run on thanks - Page 2 - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

Mr. Sandman · 03-06-2006, 09:27 AM

I have never taken money for taking someone fishing. (even as a lic'ed Capt) That said I only invite friends and family and do a few favors. Most of the people I fish with invite me on their boat too so I think in the end it all works out. If there was an exceptional trip (big day offshore) I would offer $$$, that is only being polite.

If I was entering something like a shark tourney with a group of guys I would lay out in advace what the costs are. You can spend a ton of cash on these things and if you don't have deep pockets it can hurt. But for a day of fluke fishing in the sound with a few friends, I will absorb it.

That said, the cost of fuel and dockage and boat ownership in general is getting absurdly high. I try not to think about it when filling up esp when I really fish hard on the boat everyday. I keep telling myself that a good day on the water is worth it but I can tell you it is keeping me from buying a big sportsfishermen. A canyon run on even a somewhat efficient boat can exceed $1000 in fuel alone. That is a lot of coin for fuel a fishing trip. One has to think that this fuel cost has to be impacting boat sales. I can only imagine that big boats with gas engines are considered dino's in the re-sale market. My wife is pushing for a tralwler style with live aboard space and I tell you @3-4 gal/hour compared to 40+ for a sportsfishermen, I may go with the trawler and tow my little seacraft around for fishing fun.

There will be no quick fix either. fuel cells, electric or hybrids will not cut it for boats or even SUV's that are really used as SUV's in the deep sand.

I would like a nice big sportfishermen with a small reactor(s) that produce about 3000hp each. Clean, no exhaust and you only replace the fuel every 30 years or so. This may sound like a pipe dream (today it sort of is) but in the longer term the next generation of atomic power is the worlds solution to energy. No question in my mind. I doubt I will be alive to see it though. Until then, I will have to live with outboards and diesels and pay the price.

Mike P · 03-06-2006, 10:07 AM

Not sure how the Coasties currently view things, but there was a time when their interpretation of the law was that accepting any compensation for taking people out on your boat made you a "for hire" operator.

Certainly, if you demanded being paid in any way by your passengers, you ran the risk of running afoul of the law. Much better to let your passengers "offer" to share expenses.

This strict view of what makes one a "for hire" operator may have been eased a bit, but you might want to look into it anyway

PNG · 03-06-2006, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike P

Not sure how the Coasties currently view things, but there was a time when their interpretation of the law was that accepting any compensation for taking people out on your boat made you a "for hire" operator.

Certainly, if you demanded being paid in any way by your passengers, you ran the risk of running afoul of the law. Much better to let your passengers "offer" to share expenses.

This strict view of what makes one a "for hire" operator may have been eased a bit, but you might want to look into it anyway

I dont see any reason why this may have changed. You interpretation is correct. Any consideration given by guests makes the vessel and owner a professional, no longer recreational. New rules come into play. The now "Captain" has to be licensed and the vessel inspected and approved for taking persons for hire. Same thing if a person operates someone elses vsl which is inspected to carry for hire the person needs to have a license.

Make it clear with your friend that if boarded say nothing about helping out with gas or anything, ever. However the spirit of the law is targeting unlicensed operators acting as a commercial entity w/out licensing and inspection. Safety.
I think last year there was an unlicensed charter from RI that went down. Anyone know more - what happened?

Goose · 03-06-2006, 11:30 AM

Quote:

I don't think you invite some one out withexpectations of money.Unles it's been discussed then it is ignorant to think that way.Communicate with your guests.It sure could get awkward when your buddy shows up with beer bait tackle and food then you ask him for $$$ and to wash the boat afterwards. I know I usually spend $50 before I step on board.Sticking out your hand to help defray slip costs and maintenance dollars is like asking barbecue guests for money to cover heating oil,home insurance or pool water delivery.If you can't afford it,don't buy it.

WTH are you talking about, I think your misunderstanding my point but then again how could you? God bless you if you can afford to host time after time....good for you, I'ld do it to if I could. I mentioned moneys for 1 outing, not a short trip, not a one time thing.

IMO, the most important thing anyone on this site has is his or her own reputation. I think sayin "if you can't afford it, don't buy it" is a low blow. Furtunantly enough I can afford it but I'm tired of getting walked on. Somebody once told me "you take the shirt off your back your gonna be cold". This is one of the reasons I fish alone and my boat is a bay boat. Don't get it confused with I'm not a people person, there isn't a guy I won't fish with here or take out for that matter.
I "know" plug builders and rod builders aren't given the credit they deserve for the same reasons I mentioned, don't think boaters don't feel the same. Your accussing the victom?

Saltheart · 03-06-2006, 12:52 PM

I had a sailboat for 23 years. I never expected anything to run the boat.

I would sometimes expect that people would at least feed themselves. That is , if its a day trip , don't expect me to load up with grinders and soda , etc. Anyone who knows anything would not only bring their own food but also some for you.

Its a social thing and you have to be careful not to hurt peoples feelings too. . For example , someone invites you to their house and wines and dines you and somewhere along the way you invite them out on the boat , you can see how they may figure the boat ride is payback and not bring anything. Most people will ask , should I bring anything , if you expect it , let them know. If you say , no I got everything , don't be surprised when they do show up empty handed.

You also have to be careful how you word the invite. "Would you like to come out boating Sat as my guest"? That person shouldn't be expected to pay anything.

"How about we split expenses and go out on the boat for the day" , then people know up front. This is my personal preference when invited out on someone elses boat. Just let me know what the deal is upfront and I'm glad to chip in.

I also think it depends on how often people do it. Someones first invite out maybe you take care of everything , even feeding them. However if its every week with the same people , they should catch on and start bringing food , beer etc.

Now I understand fishing trips are different than a day sail. Fishing trips burn gasand people get to take home fish. It should be discussed up front that if possible , a little help with gas money , after the trip is over , would be nice. Also , don't expect to share anything more than the comsumables , like gas ,. You;re crazy if you think people are going to add an extra $50 cause they know the outboard gets wear and tear. Also , if gas is $60 , don't expect each person to give you $60. Just their share is nice enough.

You also have to take into account someones circumstances too. Don't ask a dirt poor guy with 10 kids to go out fishing and expect a hundred for gas. If this is what's expected , make it clear ahead of time.

Anyway , as I said , I never wanted anything for the boat , gas , dock etc. That's my resposibility as the owner but if you want ham samdwiches and cheese and wine , bring some , enough for everyone.

The last thing I wanted to mention was that some people don't want to insult you by offering money. There may be many points of view as to whether the trip is shared , payback , just being nice , philanthropic , etc

Anyway , I would much rather have everything discussed up front so no one gets disappointed or surprised or put in the situation of not knowing what to do. As the boat owner , if you never expect anything , you are never disappointed and sometimes pleasantly surprised.

Good topic though. There are a million scenarios and circumstances under which you may be expected to chip in , hope you'll chip in , not expected to chip in and insulting for even offering to chip in.

MakoMike · 03-06-2006, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PNG

I dont see any reason why this may have changed. You interpretation is correct. Any consideration given by guests makes the vessel and owner a professional, no longer recreational. New rules come into play. The now "Captain" has to be licensed and the vessel inspected and approved for taking persons for hire. Same thing if a person operates someone elses vsl which is inspected to carry for hire the person needs to have a license.

Make it clear with your friend that if boarded say nothing about helping out with gas or anything, ever. However the spirit of the law is targeting unlicensed operators acting as a commercial entity w/out licensing and inspection. Safety.
I think last year there was an unlicensed charter from RI that went down. Anyone know more - what happened?

It definately did change a couple of years ago. The C.G. came out with a notice that you not be considered as a "for Hire" vessel if the passengers agreed to pick up some of the costs of the trip.

Flaptail · 03-06-2006, 01:05 PM

Always offer to help. I fish with Stiff-tip and tuna chasing can get quite expensive so we always split the bill 3 ways. No of us are rich men and we acknowledge that fact. We all get to enjoy the day, we all enjoy the experience and so we should bear the cost equally.

InTheHole · 03-06-2006, 01:30 PM

I fish with my wife and 3 kids 90% of the time so it is usually not an issue, ( I tried to get my wife to pony up once but that did'nt work out so welll) But when I take the guys out I never ask. I have been fortunate enough that my guests kick in on their own or buy the supplies we need for the trip

PNG · 03-06-2006, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakoMike

It definately did change a couple of years ago. The C.G. came out with a notice that you not be considered as a "for Hire" vessel if the passengers agreed to pick up some of the costs of the trip.

Thanks for the update Mike. I never liked the black and white way it was written. More realistic now.

Mr. Sandman · 03-06-2006, 02:19 PM

Didn't know about the chipping-in for costs ruling, but I do know that not all vessels have to be inspected. This is why the "six-pack" lic or Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessels (OUPV), is so popular with most charter captains. It is pretty easy to get but it has its limits.

macojoe · 03-06-2006, 06:12 PM

Quote:

What if you have a commercial license and the guest has helped you catch for the day.Is that payment enough?

Yep

And they get the pick of fish to go home also!! Not just the small stuff eaither, they can have what ever they want.

I never split the money as the guys I go with don't have boats, and they are just happy to be out there and bring home fish!!
I have put money in there cars just to have iot given back to me the next time I see them.

I fish with some great friends!

I had a old friend that has past away and we would split back then, after the gas and all was said and done, we would split 3 ways, 1 for him, one for me, and one for the boat for repairs and stuff that goes with out saying.

Sea Dangles · 03-06-2006, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quick decision

I think it depends who it is a what the situation is. I like to have the guests help out with gas if we are going to make out run outside to do some cod fishing. If we are going to bop around the harbor money wont be turned down but isnt expected. I have no problem telling people up front what the deal is.

"If you can't afford it,don't buy it" What does that statement mean. I make a lot of sacerfices so I can have a boat. So mabey I dont go out to eat everyday, I bring a lunch. Mabey I drive a 2001 Trailblazer instead of a 2006. I dont go to bars and drink, do drugs, gamble. I choose to own a boat. That is a idiotic stupid thing to say.

I'll tell you in plain English.Don't buy a boat expecting other people to pick up your expenses.Very simple.

Sea Dangles · 03-06-2006, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goose

WTH are you talking about, I think your misunderstanding my point but then again how could you? God bless you if you can afford to host time after time....good for you, I'ld do it to if I could. I mentioned moneys for 1 outing, not a short trip, not a one time thing.

IMO, the most important thing anyone on this site has is his or her own reputation. I think sayin "if you can't afford it, don't buy it" is a low blow. Furtunantly enough I can afford it but I'm tired of getting walked on. Somebody once told me "you take the shirt off your back your gonna be cold". This is one of the reasons I fish alone and my boat is a bay boat. Don't get it confused with I'm not a people person, there isn't a guy I won't fish with here or take out for that matter.
I "know" plug builders and rod builders aren't given the credit they deserve for the same reasons I mentioned, don't think boaters don't feel the same. Your accussing the victom?

Goose,don't misunderstand me,if you have worked it out beforehand that fuel will be split then so be it.No low blow was intended and I aploogize if I offended you.My point was that no one should lose friends over miscommunication.After all it's money.Accept it if it's offered of course ,but if someone shows up with bait, ice,beer, tackle etc. for a close trip they are usually pulling their weight.That being said you are welcome to paddle with me anytime

macojoe · 03-06-2006, 07:37 PM

Quote:

I'll tell you in plain English.Don't buy a boat expecting other people to pick up your expenses.Very simple.

I don't expect for them to pick up the expenses, But I no going to have them leaching for free eaither.

relentless · 03-06-2006, 08:10 PM

Gee,

I have taken many guests on my boat who are well aware of what it costs to go out and very few if any have ever opened their wallet, Also be carefull asking for funds can constitute comensation and open the can of worms calle a "charter". If interurpeted that way, different licenses needed, don't forget the piss tests and additional requirements. Be carefull, is all I am saying, but then again gee look what I found and it's green.

Dave

Van · 03-07-2006, 09:28 AM

All my friends are poor. Luckily I'm a millionaire.......

NOT

But when they can they do chip in.
Like others said, I'm going out anyway so its gonna cost the same.

When I've gone on others boats, I always help out.
Sometimes I have to sneak the $$$ into their tackle bag when they are not looking.

But especially offshore trips (tuna). Its only right that can cost some major $$$$$.

striprman · 03-07-2006, 09:46 AM

I always give my brother at least half of what it cost to gas up or, I buy the bait (sometimes, that costs as much, if not more, than the gas), soda, food..whatever it takes for the "trip" and he buys the gas. If we are tube and wormin' I buy the worms, flukin' I buy the squid or chubs, scupin'=squid. Toggin' or flounders, a sack of chowder quohogs (works good for scup and black sea bass too) or out cod fishin' with bait. I always throw him something .

stiff tip · 03-07-2006, 02:38 PM

i tell my crew if u want to go fishin on the boat i split the expenses equelley.i got 25 gs in the boat an gear ,if it 100$$a day ,3ways try to charter a off shore rig fo that price ..my guys know .no doe no go ..its a cheap day out w/ no hassles...capt cupcake..

capesams · 03-07-2006, 05:25 PM

IF I invite someone to go [joy] fishing...the rides on me...they feed themselves......But my only rule is....NO BOOZE/beer on my boat and don't show up half in the bag or they'll be standing on the dock watching me sail away.

Clammer · 03-07-2006, 06:06 PM

C/S ===my rules to the tee /except i add to time limit /could be a hour could & has been 12

Sea Dangles · 03-07-2006, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capesams

IF I invite someone to go [joy] fishing...the rides on me...they feed themselves......But my only rule is....NO BOOZE/beer on my boat and don't show up half in the bag or they'll be standing on the dock watching me sail away.

Why no booze?That sucks

nightfighter · 03-07-2006, 07:22 PM

Oh CS and Clammer, we're a tough crew ain't we! Can you see the three of us on the same boat back in the day???

capesams · 03-07-2006, 07:31 PM

your kidding me right?...try,,YOUR responsable for all persons on your boat.....insurance....

Sea Dangles · 03-07-2006, 09:41 PM

So just dubage?

macojoe · 03-07-2006, 09:46 PM

Same rule goes for my boat!
I let a guy on there the first year I was boating, he got so drunk the fun was gone!! He has never been back on the boat all these years cause I won't let him drink.
O well I don't miss him !

Clammer · 03-07-2006, 11:18 PM

Time & a place for everything //

schoolie monster · 03-08-2006, 12:02 PM

Its different for me cause I'm in a small boat and gas is not as big an issue, unless we're trailering far.

I personally always offer $ when I'm a guest, never take it when I'm captain.

But if you're running a bigger boat, fuel is a big deal. Guests should always offer, or at least bring the food/bait or something. Plus, with my small boat, I'm not going real far either. Big boats may tend to run further maybe chasing tuna or something. Then its a really big deal. Hundreds of dollars.

Situations are different too.

If I took a buddy out alot during a season, and we're good friends, I think you could ask him to pitch in without feeling bad.

If you meet someone, say, on this website, maybe a group thing... I think the guest(s) should really be obligated to pitch in. The capt is being very generous.

But I've taken out spouses of my wife's co-workers who I don't know well... or our nanny's husband... I would never ask them, especially if its just a one time thing.

I stick it to my dad though... I make him buy all the gas/bait/tackle. Its the least he can do... hey, charters are worth 400-500 bucks and I put him on fish everytime he visits.

Yeah, I'm just kidding.

Raider Ronnie · 03-08-2006, 06:03 PM

I've worked on charters with guys drinking lots of times.
Moderation in drinking is ok, but when we have a bachelor party and the drinking gets out of hand, It's not fun, and can be dangerous !
A few years ago, I did a bachelor party of 3 boats.
The 6 guys that we had on our boat were drinking at 5:30 am, and most likely had been partying the night before.
5 of the guys were somewhat ok during the day,
But the 6th guy was so trashed, he was passed out cold by 11:00 am.
We had to tie him in a seat with dock lines, and huge boat fenders on each side of him so he wouldn't crack his head open !!!
Not my idea of a fun day !!!
Also kind of stupid when your spending $900.00 - $1100.00 for a day of fishing !!!