Old techniques vs. New tactics

[spence]

This is a silly/dumb argument.

I'd wager unless there's been a "controlled" study of catch by lure type that most opinions are heavily jaded, relative or otherwise skewed.

Hard money says that Stevie Van Stall and a Sluggo will outfish Spence and an eel 5:1...

Granted, I'd look a hell of a lot better, but does that mean the rubber is the superior lure?

-spence

[JohnR]

The Sea Spook, errr. Sea Pup, was a FANTASTIC reincarnation of the old technique

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by Krispy

Rigged Sluggos are good example.
A newer product, that uses new tactics, that can use specialized rods that one wouldnt normally use with older techniques. Has had moderate cow success in the surf to date.
VS.
Live eels or rigged eels that have caught countless trophy bass over the decades.
Where/why would you invest time/$ in one over the other?

I don't know if the Sluggo thing is "hype" but it's for damn sure it's an example of good marketing. I can't tell you how many times people walk into the shop, say they just saw the Steve McKenna OTW, and then rip black sluggos and all the accessories off the walls in the shop. How 'bout Butterfly jigs? People are simply nuts about them.

If I'm asked if I fish them, I tell them my opinion. A couple of expensive hooks, a expensive piece of rubber, time spent rigging and then a bluefish cuts the ass end off of it, right up to the hook. It drives me nuts. They work VERY well yes, for me it's just too frustrating. I'd fish an eel before that. It's cheaper. I don't question plastic's effectiveness, other then the lack of a true cow being caught on them. That will almost certainly change this year simply due to how many people will be fishing them. I also think the love affair will fade a bit if the coast is littered with 2 pound bluefish this year.

And yeah, I also made sure when taking the famous "Iron Mike 60# photo" plastered every where that the needlefish was in plain sight. No one can ever tell me people don't buy into hype or marketing. I'd discuss the bone over orange plugs on everyone's websites these days too, but people might not believe me.

I also think in the case of Sluggos, needlefish, Spooks, and almost all plugs for that matter the guy driving is the most important thing. Some people are just better at making any plug look alive with the way they make it work in their hands. Those who catch large regularly could do it on anything, they just have their preferences. Referencing the Ironman again, we have a 63 on a skin plug, a 60 on a 3.5 ounce blue/white Habs, a 53 (I think) on a blue/white Danny, and another 50 on a blurple Habs. That's definitely spreading the love around, not counting the repeat hits on the Habs. Steve McKenna could have caught that 40 in the OTW vid on anything, imo. He had the idea to be in that place at that time and is simply better then most at making any plug look alive.

I'm a traditionalist for the most part; give me plugs, bucktails, tins, and a few plastics in blue over white, black, white, and bunker (for my Storms) and I'm happy.

As always, in many cases people will catch the most on what they fish the most. I do my damage with Dannys closely followed by needles simply because those are the plugs I prefer to fish.

[Nebe]

[QUOTE=Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I'll add my 19 cents.. last spring i fished only wood & i did pretty good.. summer, i used eels did alright.. then in the fall i fished sluggos...man oh man.. i did so well with the sluggo's i will....
This is where I get confused because in the next post,"there's no question eels outfish..."it seems contradictory.I'm sure Eben is being honest about his success with rubber.Steve's success has certainly been well documented also and he stands nothing to gain financially so his credibility can't be questioned.I've also seen footage on Joe's site of Steve's cow which he himself equated to some kind of horseshoe in a dark,smelly area.
My concern is,how many people want to cast and retrieve all night with the frequency and speed that has been recommended.Cast,reel fast and twitch,cast again.Steve does this with an 8'6" stick because he is an angler that's been there before and knows he can battle big momma.Most R.I. surfcasters use big,long,beefy sticks to control the cow they dream of being on the other end of their line.After an hour of this method I predict the enthusiasm will diminish.
I don't think this well promoted rubber hype will stand the test of time.I also don't consider it to be a"big fish"bait.It will not replace the allure of swimming a Danny,Needle,darter or certainly the live eel.Close your eyes,reel slow,hold on.Rubber? occasionally.

to clarify my statements I dont use eels much, so i am not that good at it. I miss alot of hits, and i cast alot of eels off.. In the right hands an eel is deadly, but in my hands an eel is not the best. A sluggo or one of my rigged rubber eels in my hands paired with an allstar 1088 and an Abu Garcia 6500 Chrome rocket or my 1213M with an avet sx is pure chemistry... I wouldnt trade it for anything. I fish to fish sometimes and sometimes its not fish that i am after.

[Sea Dangles]

Excellent response, I too fish just to fish.I think a lot of great products have come out this year that will take impressive fish due to a lot of exposure.Needles were also the ticket for me last year on the majority of large.Over 30#last year I caught fish on many weapons; Needles,eels,pogy,jigs.Anything can do the trick when deployed at the right time.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I fish to fish sometimes and sometimes its not fish that i am after.

As my red spanked rear end can attest.

Nebe, you and Dangles really need to hit the East Wall together

[Pete_G]

I guess to summarize my previous post I'll borrow a quote from Morpheus. "Free your mind".

Do baitfish turn black at night? Or white during the day? Why should your plugs? It's a decent "rule" of plug color choice but I don't live and die by it.

Do what feels right and fish what catches fish for you. Confidence in you're offering to the fish, new or old, is very important.

[bart]

multiple documented 40# fish last year and who knows how many 30s....yeah slug-gos are all hype

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

As my red spanked rear end can attest.

Trollin for colon

[Skitterpop]

As has been said here throughout ~~~~~~~~~~



If you are a competent fisher and get out frequently and be where the fish are then there are many many baits and lures that will catch for you.


Biggest secret is: Go Fishing

[tlapinski]

Originally Posted by Pete_G

No one can ever tell me people don't buy into hype or marketing. I'd discuss the bone over orange plugs on everyone's websites these days too, but people might not believe me..

What is the deal on that color suddenly showing up all over the place? Did a paint company run a sale on bone and orange paints?????

[NIB]

Don't own any.not really a fan of orange bottom lures.Nor am I a fan of those spook type things.I made a livin on rubber on a jig head till Storm came out with shads in a bag.I was so pissed it took me 2 yrs to buy a pack an i still barely thro em.My style was cut from some old time NJ surfmen.I have seen many new ways to skin a cat in my travels.I take bits an pieces from all of it in effort of being the most complete surfcaster I can.My mind is always open for new Idea's. I may be slower than most to jump on the bandwagon thou.

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by tlapinski

What is the deal on that color suddenly showing up all over the place? Did a paint company run a sale on bone and orange paints?????

I dreamed it up one afternoon when we were thinking of custom colors for a Super Strike order.

The bone Jumpin Minnow is a deadly plug and at the time we were having great success on the Mag Darter with the orange belly on charters. So bone over orange was reborn. I had it painted by a few other builders and now it's everywhere...

Although it works well it was only an experiment at the time. It was weird to watch it spread online though.

[likwid]

Fad?
Not a fad?



If it works I'll keep usin it.

Originally Posted by spence

Hard money says that Stevie Van Stall and a Sluggo will outfish Spence and an eel 5:1...

And once upon a time the J Plugs were the cow killers off the islands but those were just a "fad".

[Skitterpop]

Got one of these to try from shore when the squid is about. Its kind of heavy at 4 oz. but I`ll rip twitch it if its calm or throw it in strong current
and see what happens. Its a bad pic but the cedar part is bluple and the rubber black purple silver with white specs. Its about 9 inches long.

[piemma]

Originally Posted by spence

This is a silly/dumb argument.

I'd wager unless there's been a "controlled" study of catch by lure type that most opinions are heavily jaded, relative or otherwise skewed.

Hard money says that Stevie Van Stall and a Sluggo will outfish Spence and an eel 5:1...

Granted, I'd look a hell of a lot better, but does that mean the rubber is the superior lure?

-spence

No one will ever look better than "Sir Cedric Cesspool" alias Spence.
Tell 'bout the night you went home cause your hat didn't match your shirt.

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by piemma

No one will ever look better than "Sir Cedric Cesspool" alias Spence.
Tell 'bout the night you went home cause your hat didn't match your shirt.

Thats not true is it? Whats he look like? I`ve seen a guy in a Basil Rathbone green tweed and red bowtie and English hippers last year in Soco.Tall blonde about 230# I`m guessing. His fully attired man servant was drying off his plug after every cast with a chamois.

[piemma]

trust me on this one. You have no idea how proper Mr. Spencer is when it comes to fishing attire. Blue hat to match his AquaSkinz top....yep

[piemma]

Originally Posted by spence

Hard money says that Stevie Van Stall and a Sluggo will outfish Spence and an eel 5:1...


-spence

Maybe Spence, but I've seen the #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& "smoke" Little Stevie when the #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& is fishin' eels

[cheferson]

Originally Posted by Krispy

Musta been a bad joke.. I know who Al Bensten is and his accomplishments. I follow his rigged eel article.
But mentioning his name in this thread in regard to rubber eel supplies harkens back to the great "blue needlefish hysteria" of '03, all hype

a quote from AL on another site

"To me the best and most inovative lure during the past 50 years was Mickey Chirenza Tri-in eel. It is a tube lure and those that used it hammered big bass both day and night. What made it unique was the shape of the head which gave it it's name tri-fin and its action.

This lure came in different sizes and they all worked. It came along when the Alou plastic eel did and it outfished it. But it never got the noterity that the Alou eel did.

I beleive it's being resurrected by a company in R.I."

[RIJIMMY]

Interesting thread, seems like there is some real passion out there that I can’t really relate to. I had a good idea for an article for one of the mags and since I will never get around to write it, I’ll throw out so maybe someone will run with it. The gist of the article is “When are saltwater striper fisherman going to catch up with freshwater largemouth fisherman?”
Look at the evolution of the tactics – Bait – wood lures – jigs – rubber . Largemouth fisherman have been using rubber for YEARS. In my experience the two best lures for BIG largemouths are jigs and rubber worms.
To Joe’s point, I think that rubber (eben’s eel and Slugs) are just a natural evolution. I don’t think these appeal to bass as eel, but just as slimy, worm/eel things that will be an easy meal.
My Dad, who targeted big bass, swore by mister twister sassy shads. The Storm concept is not new, just a little fancier.
I like fishing with eels and believe live bait is best, but if I want to work a lot of area quickly, lures work best for me and the rubber is a great compromise. Also, the convenience is a major factor.
I find working eels, needlefish or plugs very slowly for hours is more tiring that working a sluggo quickly.

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Interesting thread, seems like there is some real passion out there that I can’t really relate to. I had a good idea for an article for one of the mags and since I will never get around to write it, I’ll throw out so maybe someone will run with it. The gist of the article is “When are saltwater striper fisherman going to catch up with freshwater largemouth fisherman?”
Look at the evolution of the tactics – Bait – wood lures – jigs – rubber . Largemouth fisherman have been using rubber for YEARS. In my experience the two best lures for BIG largemouths are jigs and rubber worms.
To Joe’s point, I think that rubber (eben’s eel and Slugs) are just a natural evolution. I don’t think these appeal to bass as eel, but just as slimy, worm/eel things that will be an easy meal.
My Dad, who targeted big bass, swore by mister twister sassy shads. The Storm concept is not new, just a little fancier.
I like fishing with eels and believe live bait is best, but if I want to work a lot of area quickly, lures work best for me and the rubber is a great compromise. Also, the convenience is a major factor.
I find working eels, needlefish or plugs very slowly for hours is more tiring that working a sluggo quickly.

Sort of a natural evolution. It was kick started by an extensive (and maybe not even intentional) advertising campaign, imo. Sluggos in saltwater are far from new. Many guys used them and lost interest years ago. Rigging so as to get a different presentation and appear more eel like is the only really "new" concept.

If you walked into the SWE 5 or more years ago back when it was considered just a fly shop there was a big selection Sluggos, complete with insert weights.

I think the Sluggo's popularity will wane, just like fly fishing did, just like wood is now. The market will get saturated, which has already begun, the novelty will wear off, the best products will survive, and the rage will be over.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Pete_G

I think the Sluggo's popularity will wane, just like fly fishing did, just like wood is now. The market will get saturated, which has already begun, the novelty will wear off, the best products will survive, and the rage will be over.

Now its all about Bunker Spoons after one article in a certain magazine.