Cows: redux

[RIJIMMY]

I know a lot of people that fish hard and dont get 30lbers. Im one of them. All nighters, rough surf, scouting areas, etc. My biggest drawback is the time I have to committ.
Looking at this thread, and I hope nonne takes this as insult, but it seems the people that regualrly catch large fish, have some sort of "network" that keeps its pulse on the where the best areas to focus on are. In this thread slone, there are so many personal references among the people that are catching. I dont thinks thats a bad thing, but I do think that adds to people's success.
I think saying fish a rocky area at night w/ eels and you'll go large is not accurate. I've been doing that for years, in places I know big fish have been caught in the past. Maybe I just suck, but I try very hard.

[JFigliuolo]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I know a lot of people that fish hard and dont get 30lbers. Im one of them. All nighters, rough surf, scouting areas, etc. My biggest drawback is the time I have to committ.
Looking at this thread, and I hope nonne takes this as insult, but it seems the people that regualrly catch large fish, have some sort of "network" that keeps its pulse on the where the best areas to focus on are. In this thread slone, there are so many personal references among the people that are catching. I dont thinks thats a bad thing, but I do think that adds to people's success.
I think saying fish a rocky area at night w/ eels and you'll go large is not accurate. I've been doing that for years, in places I know big fish have been caught in the past. Maybe I just suck, but I try very hard.

It's not just fishing HARD. It's fishing often. I fish good water as hard as the next guy. HOWEVER, I only get out 2-3 times a week. My cances of catching large are only 30-40% that of guys that can and do go out 5-7 nights a week. I know this, it's just a fact. You want large? dedicate yourself to it or have luck on you side (Or both).

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by JFigliuolo

It's not just fishing HARD. It's fishing often. I fish good water as hard as the next guy. HOWEVER, I only get out 2-3 times a week. My cances of catching large are only 30-40% that of guys that can and do go out 5-7 nights a week. I know this, it's just a fact. You want large? dedicate yourself to it or have luck on you side (Or both).

I agree 100%

[Canalman]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I know a lot of people that fish hard and dont get 30lbers. Im one of them. All nighters, rough surf, scouting areas, etc. My biggest drawback is the time I have to committ.
Looking at this thread, and I hope nonne takes this as insult, but it seems the people that regualrly catch large fish, have some sort of "network" that keeps its pulse on the where the best areas to focus on are. In this thread slone, there are so many personal references among the people that are catching. I dont thinks thats a bad thing, but I do think that adds to people's success.
I think saying fish a rocky area at night w/ eels and you'll go large is not accurate. I've been doing that for years, in places I know big fish have been caught in the past. Maybe I just suck, but I try very hard.

The "network" you speak of doesn't exist for me... and I'm not trying cto say that I'm anywhere near a sharpie... here's the problem with that theory. Once in a while I do get some privy info, and I'm not stupid... I go. But I think the best advice is not to chase reports... and we all do it, but so Joe Babeets has been taking good fish 2 nights in a row at "phantom beach"... you go running over there on the 3rd night you have 2 strikes against you already... now maybe they'll be there again and you'll, as Billy says, Hone 'em. But I'd say if you get 20 reports like that you might find good fish twice. You're much better off to map out 6 locations that fish well on different tides/winds etc... and hit them religiously for the season. If you do your homework you're gonna catch big fish... I promise, for someone who can't stay on them night after night... it does get a little harder... but knowing when NOT to go is just as important as knowing when to go.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Canalman

The "network" you speak of doesn't exist for me... and I'm not trying cto say that I'm anywhere near a sharpie... here's the problem with that theory. Once in a while I do get some privy info, and I'm not stupid... I go. But I think the best advice is not to chase reports... and we all do it, but so Joe Babeets has been taking good fish 2 nights in a row at "phantom beach"... you go running over there on the 3rd night you have 2 strikes against you already... now maybe they'll be there again and you'll, as Billy says, Hone 'em. But I'd say if you get 20 reports like that you might find good fish twice. You're much better off to map out 6 locations that fish well on different tides/winds etc... and hit them religiously for the season. If you do your homework you're gonna catch big fish... I promise, for someone who can't stay on them night after night... it does get a little harder... but knowing when NOT to go is just as important as knowing when to go.

Good to see you got a decent one Dave. Knowing when not to go is huge, although you need an infinite amount of knowledge to be able to arrive at that observation. My fishing trips now are all less than 5-6 hours. Figure 2 hours of driving, and 3 or 4 hours of fishing. Again, I don't and can't kill myself with real long nights, because experience tells me that it usually doesn't pay off most of the time. Find the sweet spot of the tide for the spot you are fishing, and stick with it. When I fished heavy commercial in the 90's, my partners used to laugh and quesiton why I gave up so early when we've been slamming them all night.The reason for me was that most of the damage gets done over a couple hour period of time. I feel the same now as I did then with regard to the sweet spot theory. I think in one of Daignault's books he refers to good surfcasting as a "miserly conservation of one's energy". One of the best statements I've ever heard. Hope I added something to the thread, Krispy. Be generous....

[Krispy]

Originally Posted by Krispy

With so many people fishing heavy tackle from the surf, why are so few large bass taken (per person) 30lb+ during the course of the season? The fish are there..

What is the general striped bass fishing population missing when targeting larger fish? Location, technique, dedication, landing ability, etc.???

RIJimmy, you are so right. Alot, I believe the majority, of people fish very hard, doing alot of the right things w/o the consistent success of large fish (or avg fish, depending which heros you want to believe). What are some of the most important factors fishermen should be focusing on when searching bigger fish?

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Krispy

RIJimmy, you are so right. Alot, I believe the majority, of people fish very hard, doing alot of the right things w/o the consistent success of large fish (or avg fish, depending which heros you want to believe). What are some of the most important factors fishermen should be focusing on when searching bigger fish?

I dont have teh answer, but can tell you what I dont have or dont do
This assumes fsihing productive water with eels at night

1. Spend 4-5 nights/week fishing a handful of spots, in all tides/conditions
2. Establish relationships with like minded fisherman (see 1 above) who can share success and lessons learned. get a "pulse" on fish movements
3. Learn from your mistakes and success

Those are my thoughts.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Krispy

RIJimmy, you are so right. Alot, I believe the majority, of people fish very hard, doing alot of the right things w/o the consistent success of large fish (or avg fish, depending which heros you want to believe). What are some of the most important factors fishermen should be focusing on when searching bigger fish?

Factors? One factor people overlook is that you need to fish in a place or time that is conducive to not just hooking, but landing, a big fish. I hear people say all the time,"she wrapped me on a pot". Well, don't fish near the f#$%^%$n pots then. It may be a good place to find and hook a fish, but a bad spot to land one. How about the canal,rivers, and breachways? People tell me "I had a monster, but it got out in the current". Solution? Fish when the tide slows a bit or is just about stopped. Sounds simple, but people forget these things. Landing, not hooking, is the key. Why have most of my jumbos come from the outer cape? Its the best place I can think of on the eastern seaboard to LAND a big fish. Lets say you can hook five jumbos in the rocks and land one of them, or you can hook two jumbos on a sandy beach and land both of them. Where would you go? Higher landing % makes the most sense to me if you are looking for numbers of real big ones, beyond 40# fish.

[tattoobob]

I just wasted a ton of time reading this whole thread

and to me the old saying is true

90% of the fish are caught by 10% of fishermen.

and doesn't mean no one is catching it just means there are people catching they are just not telling anyone

[RIJIMMY]

Canalman, lets run with that fish for a minute and get to what i think Krispy means.
So you got a good fish last night, can you answer why? What was you reason for fishing where you did? Was it an ideal combination of tide/weather or just a good spot? Have you gotten fish there b4?

[Canalman]

If his point is to say that I'm rubbing it in people's face.. it wasn't meant to be that way it was meant more a joke than anything else.

I fished that spot because of the SE wind. I have been taking good fish there on the NW but on the other side (sorry if this is a little vague). On a SW or SE the side i fished last night is best. I didn't hit the spot at the optimum tide either... I tested a theory first (which failed ) so I probably cost myself some fish but that's how I learn.

As for why... I can't answer why I don;t know. even when you think you have a perfected formula for a spot it doesn't always work.

[Canalman]

I have taken many fish there in the past.. the conditions were not "ideal" but they were good and in the fall good is usually good enough or great

[RIJIMMY]

thx

[Canalman]

did I answer your questions well enough?

[choggieman]

Krispy,
My answer to your question is simple. Time- or lack there of. The major factor that limits the number of quality fish I catch a year is the number of hours I can put in in the surf. If, like some others-the minority I add, I had no job and could spend countless hours in the surf and on the boat, I am sure I would have many 30s and a few 40s a year. So, for me and the small crew I fish with- the time spent in the surf directly reflects the number of quality fish I could boast about.
Maybe one of these days my gimp knee will really give out and I can spend the rest of my days on a disability fishing to my hearts content. Then- look out fatties, here I come!

[Canalman]

I work a full time job, but I live very close to the water... I go 3-5 nights a week... if I'm into fish I'm just a miserable bastid at work the next day

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Canalman

I work a full time job, but I live very close to the water... I go 3-5 nights a week... if I'm into fish I'm just a miserable bastid at work the next day

so that's pretty much all the time

[choggieman]

I wish I lived close....45 mins for me which isn't too bad. The wife hates me this time of year anyway, but for me the treestand calls more than the surf most nights

[zimmy]

I think its been answered... for most people its time and location. If a person only fishes 2 nights a week then they have maybe, what 10 chances in the fall? What if its once a week. Then what if you only get to a big fish spot for a 2 or 3 trips. Odds aren't good. What percent of people get out 4+ nights a week in top locations.
I know when I was fishing the canal 3 or 4 nights a week in the fall a few years back it was much easier to rack up big numbers. Now in western ct it is a little harder to find the bigger fish from shore especially since I don't know the area as well yet. Only get to cape areas and rhody for a handful on nights a season. Harder to get a feel for where they are showing. A few years ago I was at the point where 40" was ok, but nothing special. Now, even fishing 4 or 5 nights a week for at lest an hour or two I am very pleased with a fish in that range. Maybe I am just losing it .

[*LB]

Back Beach makes some good points. I fish 3 spots 95% of the time, all around five minutes from my house. All 3 spots can produce big fish, but I've never experienced the big-fish bite to last more than a couple hours max. I try to keep a pretty detailed log, and up to this point I have not been able to predict with any certainty when a spot is guaranteed to fire. I believe it's possible to have a much better handle on things than I do, but I'm not there yet. Part of the fun for me is trying to make sense of it all. I think a lot of the appeal of fishing for large fish would evaporate if I had it all figured out.

Another good point BB makes is the difference between hooking and landing big fish. The spots I fish make it very tricky to land big fish. Since I like my spots I'm content to lose a lot of fish while trying to figure out how to improve my odds. This is an interesting thread.

[libassboy]

This question's for #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&/NIB/and a few of u other guys who get many 30's during the season. When you say many how many is that, i mean, i have 2 this year, which is a good season so far for me..not including the late run of OCT and NOV. On AVG how many 30's do u guys generally get in a year?

[fishaholic18]

Originally Posted by libassboy

This question's for #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&/NIB/and a few of u other guys who get many 30's during the season. When you say many how many is that, i mean, i have 2 this year, which is a good season so far for me..not including the late run of OCT and NOV. On AVG how many 30's do u guys generally get in a year?

I think I got 6 or 7 last year.

[libassboy]

I think I got 6 or 7 last year.

Usually i get my big hit of fish in late OCT/Nov down here, I expect 2 more for the season but 7 would be sweet!!

[eelman]

Originally Posted by libassboy

This question's for #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&/NIB/and a few of u other guys who get many 30's during the season. When you say many how many is that, i mean, i have 2 this year, which is a good season so far for me..not including the late run of OCT and NOV. On AVG how many 30's do u guys generally get in a year?

It varies. every year is different and you cant catch whats not there...Having said that, I have 8 fish just at or over 30lbs this year..Last year I had more including a 43lb fish from the beach.2 -30lb fish is very good, I will cocede I have much more time than most to fish...is simple mathematics, my chances go way up because I put in more time and I realize that...I may live line bunker in the morning and then head out with live eels at night, just many opertunities, I also baught a boat this year so I could fish many different ways.

Targeting large fish only has its drawbacks....Its better to relax and let it happen, fishing with the intent of only catching large makes you fish tense... What I do is study my charts....I know the 2 or 3 places I fish most often intamatly, Agter of years on the same pearch you simply just learn when the opertunity for a big fish is there, you know that its worth going on a south east wind and not worth going on a southwest wind. I know that there is a window of time where I have the best shot....Notice , I dont say "I know the fish will be there" all you can do is make sure everything else is right condition wise and then just fish the place you have chose....I also fish my spots at everysingle stage of the tide coming or going, thats how you learn a spot....Some places I have stumbled upon by accident ! I went at the wrong time and caught fish and learned something in the process...If I catch fish at a new place , I look at a chart the next day and it hits me..."Oh thats why" there is a drop off here and deep water with a reef just under water" I also look at which way the currents move along a particular spot, sometimes its more important than the tide, sometimes its only good an hour before dead low or even still There are places where you can only reach the structure you want to fish on a moon low tide..


There is much to learn and its a constant process however, I like to concentrate on two or three spots and stick with them, they produce and I have taken the time to learn them.

When someone tells you they got fish at spot A You want to rush down there, well there is so much more to it than that....when did they catch, what was the wind, how did they aprocach the spot etc..etc..etc...What stage of the tide.

I dont follow tide rules, I only use the tide as it relates to a certain spot, Like I said some spots are good on low, some on high some in between...you have to learn your spots!

What you fish with is important, in my opinion you cannot beat live eels...just cant...over the course of a season nothing is more consistant, its a live bait! My numbers and size of fish should speak to that....I use eels from may until decmebr and have never ever had a problem catching fish...never! On the cape, guys do well with plugs...but , again, I am no expert on cape cod because I dont fish there aften....So what works for them is not for me to judge...I am an expert in Rhode Island and can tell you matter of fact, you can cast plugs till the hooks rust off and not even catch a third of what the live eel will catch...The eel also attracts large fish and all my 40lb and up fish have fell to live eels...Now why would anyone have a problem with that? Its the truth! So, while fishing to some is not about "catching"....it is to me..I dont want to lose sleep for a week straight and get skunked ! I want results and the live eel produces results!

So, its a matter of learning your spots well, if you have fished a spot for a few seasons and got nothing better than a teen size fish..odds are that spot just doesnt produce large....its not your fault...like I said earlier, you cant catch whats not there....I would then move on and learn and try new places. You want certain things, deep water within close range of the shoreline is important to me , load of structure is important to me, its the highways bass use to move and ambush and hide, lots of bottom forage is important to me, lobsters, crabs, etc... It is my belief that large bass would rather grub to eat than chase a baitfish all day long...and just to add to that....eels are fished very slow....


My ideas for catching fish may differ from others and thats fine , it works great for me....I have it down to now I only have to fish a couple hours a night, no more all nighters....my body cant take it anymore anyway...I never stay home on a full moon, I have caught some of my best on a full moon, again its time on the water...Sometimes its a matter of luck...some guys have a touch or a "golden horsehoe" or whatever you want to call it...weird things happen in this sport that confound.

But lastly and to pound it home... YOU HAVE TO PUT IN THE TIME...its as simple as that, you cant catch fish staying home...I realize all about peoples work etc.... but still this sport is a matter of time on the water...

If you want to catch large consistantly

1) Put in the time!

2) Learn a few spots well instead of jumping all over the place or following or chasing reports...here today gone tommorow..

3) Know how tide and current affect where you fish, know how wind makes a difference, sometimes a certain wind will puch the current break closer to you...

4) use bait...sorry folks...but it really works..

5) Fish your chosen spot around the horn at every tide stage before you say its not good there....once you hit them, make a mental note

6) realize that some places only give up small bass and thats all your gonna get....move on

And put in your time!!

7) Have confidence! this makes all the difference in the world! Have confidence in what your fishing!

Go Catch large!

8) RELAX......They will come and it will happen!! Hope thios constitutes a helpfull post

[fishaholic18]

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

It varies. every year is different and you cant catch whats not there...Having said that, I have 8 fish just at or over 30lbs this year..Last year I had more including a 43lb fish from the beach.2 -30lb fish is very good, I will cocede I have much more time than most to fish...is simple mathematics, my chances go way up because I put in more time and I realize that...I may live line bunker in the morning and then head out with live eels at night, just many opertunities, I also baught a boat this year so I could fish many different ways.

Targeting large fish only has its drawbacks....Its better to relax and let it happen, fishing with the intent of only catching large makes you fish tense... What I do is study my charts....I know the 2 or 3 places I fish most often intamatly, Agter of years on the same pearch you simply just learn when the opertunity for a big fish is there, you know that its worth going on a south east wind and not worth going on a southwest wind. I know that there is a window of time where I have the best shot....Notice , I dont say "I know the fish will be there" all you can do is make sure everything else is right condition wise and then just fish the place you have chose....I also fish my spots at everysingle stage of the tide coming or going, thats how you learn a spot....Some places I have stumbled upon by accident ! I went at the wrong time and caught fish and learned something in the process...If I catch fish at a new place , I look at a chart the next day and it hits me..."Oh thats why" there is a drop off here and deep water with a reef just under water" I also look at which way the currents move along a particular spot, sometimes its more important than the tide, sometimes its only good an hour before dead low or even still There are places where you can only reach the structure you want to fish on a moon low tide..


There is much to learn and its a constant process however, I like to concentrate on two or three spots and stick with them, they produce and I have taken the time to learn them.

When someone tells you they got fish at spot A You want to rush down there, well there is so much more to it than that....when did they catch, what was the wind, how did they aprocach the spot etc..etc..etc...What stage of the tide.

I dont follow tide rules, I only use the tide as it relates to a certain spot, Like I said some spots are good on low, some on high some in between...you have to learn your spots!

What you fish with is important, in my opinion you cannot beat live eels...just cant...over the course of a season nothing is more consistant, its a live bait! My numbers and size of fish should speak to that....I use eels from may until decmebr and have never ever had a problem catching fish...never! On the cape, guys do well with plugs...but , again, I am no expert on cape cod because I dont fish there aften....So what works for them is not for me to judge...I am an expert in Rhode Island and can tell you matter of fact, you can cast plugs till the hooks rust off and not even catch a third of what the live eel will catch...The eel also attracts large fish and all my 40lb and up fish have fell to live eels...Now why would anyone have a problem with that? Its the truth! So, while fishing to some is not about "catching"....it is to me..I dont want to lose sleep for a week straight and get skunked ! I want results and the live eel produces results!

So, its a matter of learning your spots well, if you have fished a spot for a few seasons and got nothing better than a teen size fish..odds are that spot just doesnt produce large....its not your fault...like I said earlier, you cant catch whats not there....I would then move on and learn and try new places. You want certain things, deep water within close range of the shoreline is important to me , load of structure is important to me, its the highways bass use to move and ambush and hide, lots of bottom forage is important to me, lobsters, crabs, etc... It is my belief that large bass would rather grub to eat than chase a baitfish all day long...and just to add to that....eels are fished very slow....

But lastly and to pound it home... YOU HAVE TO PUT IN THE TIME...its as simple as that, you cant catch fish staying home...I realize all about peoples work etc.... but still this sport is a matter of time on the water...

Go Catch large!

WTF, my eyes are sore now..
Got writers cramp now??///

[eelman]

Just trying to add something of value dave!

[NIB]

Originally Posted by libassboy

This question's for #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&/NIB/and a few of u other guys who get many 30's during the season. When you say many how many is that, i mean, i have 2 this year, which is a good season so far for me..not including the late run of OCT and NOV. On AVG how many 30's do u guys generally get in a year?

"u can't catch what aint there."
Well when they are there u have to make the most of it.Normally in a good yr 3 or 4 can be a great yr.I have hot spots.That hold big fish during a time of yr.Usually I can intercept em.One is a jig spot the other I ply with live bunker.The past few yrs here in NJ we have had big baits an big fish together.I have more than 30 fish over 30 lbs this yr.Thats a conservative number.They where there an I made the most of it.before sunrise an after dark every day for a month.never missed a beat.
Sounds like ur right on target to a good/great yr.if the weather holds up an the fall progresses as usuall u should be on ur way.There's some science to it for the most part if they are there u'll get em.Tough to beat a bait with a heartbeat but u can illicit strikes many different ways.Like first light with a pencil popper.They will take this lure out of aggression.It's a excellent big fish bait..

[eelman]

Originally Posted by NIB

"u can't catch what aint there."
Well when they are there u have to make the most of it.Normally in a good yr 3 or 4 can be a great yr.I have hot spots.That hold big fish during a time of yr.Usually I can intercept em.One is a jig spot the other I ply with live bunker.The past few yrs here in NJ we have had big baits an big fish together.I have more than 30 fish over 30 lbs this yr.Thats a conservative number.They where there an I made the most of it.before sunrise an after dark every day for a month.never missed a beat.
Sounds like ur right on target to a good/great yr.if the weather holds up an the fall progresses as usuall u should be on ur way.There's some science to it for the most part if they are there u'll get em.Tough to beat a bait with a heartbeat but u can illicit strikes many different ways.Like first light with a pencil popper.They will take this lure out of aggression.It's a excellent big fish bait..

Your right, however....in surf fishing, you never know whats there or isnt there unless you can see underwater...as long as you have done your homework and put in the time all you can hope for is a fish, the rest is up to the fish gods...and again that goes back to puttin in the time!

[libassboy]

I have tons of respect for alot of u guys, i know what it takes to get a couple 30's..its alot of work..but with the numbers you guys put up it really is amazing!!

[reebok]

#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& where do you get information about currents, that Eldridge book? Do you recommend having that?