seals wtf... - Page 2 - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

stiff tip · 10-10-2006, 05:09 PM

err ,john the issue is seals , and lack of info and control...also good 4 u if u got some productive nights in over the last few yrs . but when i talk about the " good old days " i remember the dollars and total pounds each night power fishing all night 2-3-4 night a week for 4to 6 wks each fall ..... i,v fished through that run of fish in the late 90s n 2000s...but that run of fish is 1/10 what is was like compared to the old days i,m sorry to say .... but keep your memories,and hope for the best

john hollenberg · 10-10-2006, 05:42 PM

That is true. anyone who knows me knows I never fish all night and never fish 2,3,4,5,6,or 7 nights a week.

Anyone who knows me knows what I think about seals.

I do think there is more going on then just the seals though they are much of the problem. I think a lot more fish are staying south of us the past couple of years with the return of the bunker.

I also think the way the com season has worked out the combination com fishing and rec fishing takes #2,000,000 in a 4-6 week period out of Mass waters. That is a lot of fish.

Just my 2 cents.

stiff tip · 10-11-2006, 04:58 AM

i agree, john ... its more than the seals alone. and comm. sales comes n goes in 6wks. i think more people fish bass now.and take more home .. according to a study comm. bass fisherman kill 1, 380,000 this yr. rec. fisherman kill 9,000,000 ++lbs in ma. whos doing more damage to the the bass stock ....its a no brainer.....

Flaptail · 10-11-2006, 05:14 AM

Water quality, lack of substantial bait not just sand eels, seals and access closures for the mobile surfcaster. Big biat is a huge problem but while other areas, notably have had and do have a resurgence of big adult Menhaden could it not be the same issue keeping them from our sandy shores as what is keeping the bass away? Namely, seals. What would a herd of seals do to an acre of pogies about to enter Pleasant Bay? And does the deteriorating water quality in the bay have anything to do with keeping them out and Stage Harbor as well?

By mid July the gelatinous junk floating on the waters of PB and the water clarity overwhelm your senses. Lack of oxygen maybe? And that June rain and the effect it had on our embayments around the Cape?

Barnstable had more bait than I have seen in years this past spring and early summer but KarlF and I saw what might be the next battlefront on the seal issue. A large seal on the east bar in June in amongst the sand eels schools. Not a good sign.

Back Beach · 10-11-2006, 07:18 AM

Wasn't ready to concede that its the seals who are responsible for the decline. After the past two seasons, I can't find any other excuses other than the seals. First hand info from good sources indicates that there is no other isolate. There are fish offshore, but they don't hit the beach with any consistency. Glad I didn't waste time or money on the back side this season or last. Might need to change my name to "rock head" now, though.

l.i.fish.in.vt · 10-11-2006, 07:30 AM

i think it is a combination of many things.the seals have wiped out the ground fish,so why would big bass venture close to the beach. you have a good amount of large bait in the NY,NJ area so the majority of large are not coming north.i think the inshore water quality has changed. whether it has to do with the amount of chorine run off or fertilzer something is changing the water

Backbeach Jake · 10-11-2006, 11:25 AM

Water Quality never dawned on me. Now that it has, I'm thinking outfall pipe in one way or the other. 1: dumping nutrients into the middle of Cape Cod Bay and attracting bait there. 2: dumping toxins and reducing bait. I'm leaning toward the nutrient side of the scale because I've not seen a lot of dead bait on shore. Saw Right Whales grubbing for large sandeels this past Easter Sunday within an honest stone's throw of the beach, now they're gone after a warm Summer. Sandeels ARE a mile or so off the beach tho, seen'em. The mung was a little longer and stringier than usual and came in force real fast. Who knows? I do know that I was mugged by seals twice this year and that they've learned to look for an easy meal when they see a rod and reel. Is a 1209 capable of throwing a .30 slug?

zimmy · 10-11-2006, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by l.i.fish.in.vt

i think it is a combination of many things.the seals have wiped out the ground fish,so why would big bass venture close to the beach. you have a good amount of large bait in the NY,NJ area so the majority of large are not coming north.i think the inshore water quality has changed. whether it has to do with the amount of chorine run off or fertilzer something is changing the water

Seals definately have an impact... but seals don't explain the widespread lack of groundfish where the seals don't even exist. I hear people tying the lack of fluke and winters to seals? We don't even friggin have a seal population here in long island sound and we still don't have flatfish to speak of. If humans weren't involved, the population of seals could be 10 times greater and there would be a thriving balanced ecosystem. The seals play a part in the current situation on the cape, but we caused it.

Flaptail · 10-11-2006, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimmy

Seals definately have an impact... but seals don't explain the widespread lack of groundfish where the seals don't even exist. I hear people tying the lack of fluke and winters to seals? We don't even friggin have a seal population here in long island sound and we still don't have flatfish to speak of. If humans weren't involved, the population of seals could be 10 times greater and there would be a thriving balanced ecosystem. The seals play a part in the current situation on the cape, but we caused it.

For years we would drift sandeels with egg sinkers over the bars at Bearses, Handkerchief and the other rips east and south of Monomoy. If you didn't catch a bass on the drift most often you would catch a fluke or another small flounder species known locally as Windowpane. Often a seal would come right up in the face of the rip with a flounder in his maw and many many many times they would rip the flounder or fluke you caught right off your hook as it came to or just under the surface.

Windowpane were so abundant while surfcasting Nauset and Monomoy as to be almost a nuiscence some nights. I don't know about Nauset as I don't fish there often enough anymore but in conversation with friends who frequent the place (KarlF any input here?) there just ain't anymore. Also there used to be a spring run of small Pollock along Monomoy and Nauset and you don't see them anymore.

But as I have written many times in my columm in OTW, a half mile off of Nauset with 300 feet of wire we could catch all the bass we wanted after tuna forays and the bait was there but no Mr. Piniped.

Karl F · 10-11-2006, 01:42 PM

Flounder, Fluke, Sand Dabs..

..
Pleasant Bay. Nauset Harbor, Mill Pond.. all abundant, years ago with winter fluke.. fluke in the summer, could get fluke off the beach almost all summer too, hence that nuiscance thing Flap had

but they was good eating.. Sand Dabs. and sand eels, in both Pleasant Bay, and out front off of Nauset..
the seals started showing.. some wintered over in both the Harbor, and Pleasant Bay.. yes man was invovled there too.. them pump rigs they brought in for clamming right around the same time.. wiped out a lot of them.. but the seals were more than happy to oblige in eating whatever came out of the hydraulics..
As the numbers of seals increased the flounder, fluke, sand dabs, and sand eels disappeared from the front beach, and the estuarys..
the sand eels were the last to go.. I remember even in the late 90's, 98-99.. you could go work the bars near the Chatham inlet at low tide and fill a bucket in short orde.. no more. Still got my CS rake a hangin in the shed.. (needs 2 tines relaced) in hope that I can someday use it again.
So..all the bait is just about wiped out, and smaller fish.. you would think the seals would move on.. no.. they just started targeting schoolies and snapper blue.. they have moved on to the larger ones now..

But, as far as the water.. I agree.. the crap from road runoff, and all the trophy mansions with the golf course type lawns, and huge septic systems right on the shore edge.. and the golf courses along the bay as well.. have to have some impact.. whatever happened to all the eel grass?.. and now chunks of the marsh itself, is dying...

Karl F · 10-11-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john hollenberg

That is true. anyone who knows me knows I never fish all night and never fish 2,3,4,5,6,or 7 nights a week.

Anyone who knows me knows what I think about seals.

.

John..
anyone who knows you, is surprised you were home at the time of night you posted, and not headed out..
John sometimes forgets to go home..

Slipknot · 10-11-2006, 05:13 PM

I've invested thousands of dollars on a brand new camper in 2003 and a campsite in Wellfleet year round in order to fish weekends and long weekends and have a little place of our own on Cape Cod. I am not happy at all with the seal population and the current fishless beaches. I am seriously considering selling it but the wife and kids don't want to, maybe we should move it to Rhode Island or someplace on a pond or lake somewhere. If it were not for the canal and using my little boat in B. Harbor, I'd have zero decent bass this year. I fished the beaches enough this year that I would think I would have gotten many keeper size bass, but the largest I hooked got taken by a seal

I am sick of those searats. Maybe I'll just give up fishing

capesams · 10-11-2006, 05:20 PM

Slip...perhaps it's time to put an addition onto your boat..say 10'.that'll get you the mile off the beach that's need these days.

NIB · 10-11-2006, 05:21 PM

Well if i was walkin down the road an i saw a Giant Bear that wanted to eat me i would turn around.
U guys need to push fisheries managment to do a study on the obvious impact the seals have on the striped bass an forage fish stocks.
I know in California they would cry foul but this is the northeast where the gortons fisherman is from.It's a different world where fish an fishing can directly impact the thinning economy in New England.Seals eat fish,all kinds of fish.Where have the herring gone in only a few yrs.
There has to be a way to hurd em up an ship em back to where they came from.Man has controlled nature before.it dosen't seem right to play god but in todays world things are different.The scales have been upset.The seal is king an has no predatory fears.Great White's don't play where they roam anymore..

MakoMike · 10-11-2006, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIB

.Where have the herring gone in only a few yrs.
..

To the pair trawlers!

Jenn · 10-11-2006, 06:42 PM

[QUOTE=Flaptail] I love the outer beaches, I treasure driving along the sand edge as the foam reaches up to me. I think the night sky on an open Atlantic beach is one of the most beautiful sights a man can ever be priviledged to see. Looking up at a new moon sky and seeing the milky way above your head in a wide swath of white in an onyx sky with stars visible just above the horizon, it takes my breath away everytime.

It's a lonely, desolate, haunted and mystical place where it could be 1698, 1898 or 2098 and it still looks the same, unchanged and constant. QUOTE]

Flap if I werent very happily married I might have to start stalking you!!!

You certainly know how to capture (in words) what it feels like to be there....

Anyway fresh off a fishing trip from those parts and having the worst trip (fishing wise) of the year I am a bit depressed to say the least. and its funny that you guys mentioned the flatfish because I was just thinking the other day how when I was kid we would catch them from shore all the time and I cant remember the last time that I did! Sad.....

john hollenberg · 10-11-2006, 07:59 PM

I think a way to approach this from another angle would be to publicize that the Cape beaches are becoming unsafe from seal fecal contamination. How about an article Flap?

pops · 10-11-2006, 08:40 PM

chum slick to attract sharks to the colony

did I just say that

lets get chumming

Skitterpop · 10-11-2006, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl F

Flounder, Fluke, Sand Dabs..

..
Pleasant Bay. Nauset Harbor, Mill Pond.. all abundant, years ago with winter fluke.. fluke in the summer, could get fluke off the beach almost all summer too, hence that nuiscance thing Flap had

but they was good eating.. Sand Dabs. and sand eels, in both Pleasant Bay, and out front off of Nauset..
the seals started showing.. some wintered over in both the Harbor, and Pleasant Bay.. yes man was invovled there too.. them pump rigs they brought in for clamming right around the same time.. wiped out a lot of them.. but the seals were more than happy to oblige in eating whatever came out of the hydraulics..
As the numbers of seals increased the flounder, fluke, sand dabs, and sand eels disappeared from the front beach, and the estuarys..
the sand eels were the last to go.. I remember even in the late 90's, 98-99.. you could go work the bars near the Chatham inlet at low tide and fill a bucket in short orde.. no more. Still got my CS rake a hangin in the shed.. (needs 2 tines relaced) in hope that I can someday use it again.
So..all the bait is just about wiped out, and smaller fish.. you would think the seals would move on.. no.. they just started targeting schoolies and snapper blue.. they have moved on to the larger ones now..

But, as far as the water.. I agree.. the crap from road runoff, and all the trophy mansions with the golf course type lawns, and huge septic systems right on the shore edge.. and the golf courses along the bay as well.. have to have some impact.. whatever happened to all the eel grass?.. and now chunks of the marsh itself, is dying...

Or.... somethings afoot and we don`t know what it is Mrs. Jones....

I only started salt fishing in late 97 but an area I like has no seals to speak of and the sand dabs, sand lances, and fluke are not there as they were in 97, 98, 99, and 2000...... methinks increased populations, more Mr. Chemical lawn treatments, sewerage leachings, natural cycles, acid rain (a name for many poisons), climate changes, etc. etc. has its dramatic effects as well..... though I agree that seals are the fisheries bane..... For Whom The Bell Tolls.... is here in many forms and sadly so...

Flaptail · 10-11-2006, 10:22 PM

[QUOTE=Jenn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaptail

I love the outer beaches, I treasure driving along the sand edge as the foam reaches up to me. I think the night sky on an open Atlantic beach is one of the most beautiful sights a man can ever be priviledged to see. Looking up at a new moon sky and seeing the milky way above your head in a wide swath of white in an onyx sky with stars visible just above the horizon, it takes my breath away everytime.

It's a lonely, desolate, haunted and mystical place where it could be 1698, 1898 or 2098 and it still looks the same, unchanged and constant. QUOTE]

Flap if I werent very happily married I might have to start stalking you!!!

You certainly know how to capture (in words) what it feels like to be there....

Anyway fresh off a fishing trip from those parts and having the worst trip (fishing wise) of the year I am a bit depressed to say the least. and its funny that you guys mentioned the flatfish because I was just thinking the other day how when I was kid we would catch them from shore all the time and I cant remember the last time that I did! Sad.....

Jenn, picture this.... It's near midnight, the beach is deserted except for one vehicle, the windows and sun roof are open and the sounds of The Flamingo's "I only have eyes for you" and that haunting melody echos off of the towering clay cliffs with the sound of a gentle surf and the stars go on forever..........Hmmmm... sound interesting?

Skitterpop · 10-11-2006, 11:06 PM

[quote=Flaptail]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenn

Jenn, picture this.... It's near midnight, the beach is deserted except for one vehicle, the windows and sun roof are open and the sounds of The Flamingo's "I only have eyes for you" and that haunting melody echos off of the towering clay cliffs with the sound of a gentle surf and the stars go on forever..........Hmmmm... sound interesting?

What about the seals

stiff tip · 10-12-2006, 03:38 AM

flap....you silver tonge devil.....smooos me

l.i.fish.in.vt · 10-12-2006, 06:47 AM

if you just do a little math, 6000 seals eating 50lbs of fish a day thats 30,000lbs of fish. if they started with tasty treats like juvinile fluke, flounder and sundabs that weigh six ozs or less thats a lot of fish each day.one of the last fish that i took home to eat had worms in the belly meat just like cod have,if i am not mistaken this is from seal crap.

Karl F · 10-12-2006, 07:02 AM

John, You are right about the parasites, they are showing up in the bass that have been taken from the beaches.. them seal poop capsules, are more than likely, the culprit, as is the case with the codfish.
When the flat fish #'s first started thinning, years ago, even in the late eighties, we (locals) knew there was a connection to the seals.. several started wintering over way up in Pleasant bay, and were observed nosing the flats out of the mud in the ponds up that way.
As the easier pickings dwindled, and the seals numbers increased, they started targeting the bigger fish.

Jenn · 10-12-2006, 05:14 PM

I also like it when a seal beaches itself and a ranger has to stand there and baby sit so people wont try to touch it......

Oh and Flaptail you can leave the Flamingos at home...mother natures music is far better (waves).

Karl F · 10-12-2006, 05:29 PM

Great White ,

Chowing seals on the inside, So. Beach, Chatham today.. confirmed by my co-workers brother who works at Outermost Marine.. heard from several others.. harbor master is in the area, ... wonder if it will make the paper

....
But.. Great News!

Christian · 10-12-2006, 06:58 PM

got one!!!
just kidding..

there were 5 washups today on bout 7 miles of north shore beach. usually a bunch of dead ones this time of year.

gone fishin · 10-12-2006, 07:42 PM

A couple of big seals on PI today. DEAD. God bless the lobstermen

Both had a bullet hole in the head.

Check the surf at PI at 3 PM today. Had to hustle off as the surf reached the foot of the dunes. Driven hard by last nites storm. Those waves are a good 10 or 12 ft. high.

Slingah · 10-12-2006, 07:49 PM

fished the Race today with BigFish.......seals everywhere

it's just not worth it.........

BigFish · 10-12-2006, 08:02 PM

I knew I would find you in this thread Matt! Man they were everywhere today.....they suck!