Fluoro Carbon Leader - Page 2 - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

ChiefLinesider · 02-19-2007, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

The problem is that comfort,etc is not why these guys buy the stuff...its all about status..

Status? Places I fish I very rarely run into anyone. & if I do, Its @ night & they don't see what I'm using. And I dont say Hey there, Im using a Spro Power Swivel with Yo Zuri Hybrid & and Rosco Snap. I can speak on behalf of most of "These Guys that buy the stuff", that the last reason they buy stuff is for the status. Of course there are always the "ginkers" as Leo N. Orsi, Jr. called them in Striper Chronicles. The fisherman wannabes that go to the tackle shop & buy all the best gear but have no idea how to use it. Maybe then you could say someone is buying something for the status. But anyone that knows anything knows status in the Surfcasting community comes with what you have done, who you are, the knowledge you have & of course the fish you have caught (and landed), consistently. NOT the gear that you use.

Slinger · 02-19-2007, 08:07 PM

As with any broad based question, there are too many variables to be considered. In the canal, at night, with jigs, probably no edge. At Monomoy trying to get a Bonito to hit on a size 1 fly in broad daylight in crystal clear water, absolutly! What I`m trying to say is, you have to narrow down the parameters for any answer to have validity. Thirty years ago I had the exact answer for everything, now any answer starts with, "Well it depends,". No stock answer can cover all situations. I generally fish out of my boat in skinny water during the day, so I use 16# flouro but if I went to the big beach at night with eels I`d use 30# mono.
Another pet beef of mine is people that are allways trying to scrimp on the line. For a long time I fished the beach for money, I met lots of guys that used equipment that looked like it came from the Salvation Army. You can catch fish on allmost any kind of reel and rod, but the ones that consistently scored were meticulos about thier line. I`ve seen rods broken and the fish was still caught, I`ve seen reels freeze up and still the fish came in but I`ve never seen a fish that broke the line landed. How can someone justify spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars on equip. and then skimp on the one thing that connects you directly to the fish? But then again, like I allways say "Well it depends...".
Slinger

Flaptail · 02-19-2007, 09:09 PM

There is anintersting article in the 2006 IGFA Yearbook about fish sight and the way they view things like color and motion. It made me think about some things and make some changes.

First is the real value of Fluorocarbon. Acuity in fish (acuity = ability to see detail) differs in relation to water clarity and amount of light. We think of fish seeing as we do. Not even close.

Even in the clearest of waters fishes acuity is way less than ours. Add turbidity ( the amount of suspended silt/plant life and/or other organisms) and it's even less. I used to use 40 pound big game green for all my leaders and caught tons of fish day and night in flats water and deeper realms. Then I caught the Fluorocarbon bug, disapears in the water! Great! that will get me more fish I thought. Turns out it just ain't so.

Fishes ability to see varies from species to species. Some fish because of the way thier eyes are set see better from the side and some see better from the front ( our beloved Striped Bass see better from the front and slightly upward at that).

Some see the same color range as we do. Most do not. Marlin for example which I found really intriging, see only blues and greens, reds, browns and dirivitives there of are only seen as shades of gray.

Lures as we know, and thier coloration decrease in intensity the deeper the lure goes. After 15 feet color starts to rapidly loose inetensity. Greens and blues go first and reds/orange go after that but that is based on our eyes. Not fishes eyes.

The gist of the article was to debunk some myths about clear leaders and lure colors and detail of a lures design. No reason really to get very fine detail. It seems the number one deterrent or attractant is motion. It either moves like something edible or it doesn't and that they found triggers the most response of all.

Look it up they give some cool examples of how well fish can see and they have come up with a lot of new data.

Slingah · 02-19-2007, 09:16 PM

I don't need it....maybe if I fished the flats during the day...and when I do fish during the day the fish are usually going after something that I'm spashing all over the place anyway so I doubt they would be spooked by maybe being able to see mono.

Casting Z's · 02-19-2007, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaptail

There is anintersting article in the 2006 IGFA Yearbook about fish sight and the way they view things like color and motion. It made me think about some things and make some changes.

First is the real value of Fluorocarbon. Acuity in fish (acuity = ability to see detail) differs in relation to water clarity and amount of light. We think of fish seeing as we do. Not even close.

Even in the clearest of waters fishes acuity is way less than ours. Add turbidity ( the amount of suspended silt/plant life and/or other organisms) and it's even less. I used to use 40 pound big game green for all my leaders and caught tons of fish day and night in flats water and deeper realms. Then I caught the Fluorocarbon bug, disapears in the water! Great! that will get me more fish I thought. Turns out it just ain't so.

Fishes ability to see varies from species to species. Some fish because of the way thier eyes are set see better from the side and some see better from the front ( our beloved Striped Bass see better from the front and slightly upward at that).

Some see the same color range as we do. Most do not. Marlin for example which I found really intriging, see only blues and greens, reds, browns and dirivitives there of are only seen as shades of gray.

Lures as we know, and thier coloration decrease in intensity the deeper the lure goes. After 15 feet color starts to rapidly loose inetensity. Greens and blues go first and reds/orange go after that but that is based on our eyes. Not fishes eyes.

The gist of the article was to debunk some myths about clear leaders and lure colors and detail of a lures design. No reason really to get very fine detail. It seems the number one deterrent or attractant is motion. It either moves like something edible or it doesn't and that they found triggers the most response of all.

Look it up they give some cool examples of how well fish can see and they have come up with a lot of new data.

Nice work!

Terence · 02-19-2007, 10:10 PM

anyone use yo zuri Hybrid in 50 lb for leader? 1000 yds for about 25.00?

ChiefLinesider · 02-19-2007, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terence

anyone use yo zuri Hybrid in 50 lb for leader? 1000 yds for about 25.00?

Are you selling it? Is that what that means?

Terence · 02-19-2007, 10:15 PM

No, using it. Its a good deal no?

ChiefLinesider · 02-19-2007, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terence

No, using it. Its a good deal no?

Absolutely. Where did you find that deal. Unless its classified

Terence · 02-19-2007, 10:19 PM

PM sent

westhavendave · 02-19-2007, 10:30 PM

In case anyone needs some Orvis mirage at very good prices check here.
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/,...erial-30m.html

Pound test can be determined here
http://www.orvis.com/intro_newwindow.asp?subject=1281

EricM · 02-20-2007, 12:25 AM

Both fluoro and mono have their applications, I use fluoro more, has good abrasion resistance, but mono works too...hmmm

NIB · 02-20-2007, 06:30 AM

I use flouro.I have this little river by my house where I was given a lesson.The lesson was if u did not have 30 flouro u where not getting bit, plain an simple.
Say what u want.I also fish a lot of sticky area's an have landed fish with my line looking like it had gone thru a cheese grater..
There's no doubt in my mind that if i fished with a similar # test mono line leader i would not have landed the fish..
I use it for everthing.up to 80 lb test.Cept' for pencils i use 100 lb Big Game. Cabela's usta sell 100 yd spools for 28 dollars but i don't see em anymore.While i was in the catalog though i did order a snorkel

I don't understand the eletist attitude of beating down of todays catalog angler.I have seen todays angler they are bullet proof.usta be u had to have balls of stone to stand in the surfline for a tide in 45 degree water while u waders leaked.If someone wants the best gear what difference does it make.I'm happy I don't have to fish in canvas or rubber waders with the plastic bags around my feet anymore.
Cause ur waders always leaked..
#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& Why don't u go thru ur list of catalog favorites.
Lets see if i can help, if I remember correctly.
400 dollar Simms waders............Check
Some kinda shoe with korkers 200$
225 dollar simms dry top w/ eel slime...Check
300 dollar Gloomis rod................Check
250 dollar Shimano Calcutta reel..Check.
3 dollar plastic eel pail..

Boy it don't look like linen line an calcutta rod with a penn 155 now does it..
It's looks like the best available. Pretty much can't blame u for using the best.
Why get on someone else..
Further more no one ever accused u of being a product cheerleader..If someone like me wants to help a friend sell a product that I know works well where is the crime in that..

Does the practice go on to new levels on the internet??
Sure it does..It's like any lesson in life.It's ultimately up to the individual
to make there own choice's..

dredey · 02-20-2007, 06:34 AM

i use orvis mirage flourocarbin because i get it at a good price and because it's just a habit to use flouro that i got from trout fishing. put it this way. it can't hurt. and it's definately not for the status.

eelman · 02-20-2007, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIB

I use flouro.I have this little river by my house where I was given a lesson.The lesson was if u did not have 30 flouro u where not getting bit, plain an simple.
Say what u want.I also fish a lot of sticky area's an have landed fish with my line looking like it had gone thru a cheese grater..
There's no doubt in my mind that if i fished with a similar # test mono line leader i would not have landed the fish..
I use it for everthing.up to 80 lb test.Cept' for pencils i use 100 lb Big Game. Cabela's usta sell 100 yd spools for 28 dollars but i don't see em anymore.While i was in the catalog though i did order a snorkel

I don't understand the eletist attitude of beating down of todays catalog angler.I have seen todays angler they are bullet proof.usta be u had to have balls of stone to stand in the surfline for a tide in 45 degree water while u waders leaked.If someone wants the best gear what difference does it make.I'm happy I don't have to fish in canvas or rubber waders with the plastic bags around my feet anymore.
Cause ur waders always leaked..
#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& Why don't u go thru ur list of catalog favorites.
Lets see if i can help, if I remember correctly.
400 dollar Simms waders............Check
Some kinda shoe with korkers 200$
225 dollar simms dry top w/ eel slime...Check
300 dollar Gloomis rod................Check
250 dollar Shimano Calcutta reel..Check.
3 dollar plastic eel pail..

Boy it don't look like linen line an calcutta rod with a penn 155 now does it..
It's looks like the best available. Pretty much can't blame u for using the best.
Why get on someone else..
Further more no one ever accused u of being a product cheerleader..If someone like me wants to help a friend sell a product that I know works well where is the crime in that..

Does the practice go on to new levels on the internet??
Sure it does..It's like any lesson in life.It's ultimately up to the individual
to make there own choice's..

Check your facts bud....Gloomis rods...Gifts...free..did not buy...Gloomis rep gave me several rods...and McKenna gave me the rest...not a penny spent....

Shimano calcutta reel...$150.00 (discount friends)..

Some kind of shoes with korkers $200?? Nope...My wading shoes were $50.00 bucks...Korkers...well yes....I would think any fool would agree that $75.00 is well spent money to avoid a long hospital stay and possibly paraylasis from a broken neck...which gives me a good idea...save the wasted money that flouro wouyld have cost and buy korkers...now thats a wise purchase..

Simms top....$199.00 Xmas gift money

Only one your correct on is the waders and I think I mentioned that in an earlier post , that was a comfort buy...Got huge discount on that also....paid wholesale....

And most of these "Luxery" surf items...I waited 20 years to buy....

I stick by my comment earlier.....Its the reasons for buying....I still say most buy the top end because they somehow think it will make them instant striper sharpies...And I am saying its not so...

One other thing....I fished a Quantum Iron most of last season...$89.00 bucks....................

Man I guess no one ever caught a bass before flouro...must be in the new century here that the bass decided to change....The fish I caught last year must have been geriatrics from a by gone era...cause I caught them pretty much at will day and night without flouro...Maybe the ones I fish for need glasses

Flaptail · 02-20-2007, 07:04 AM

The best of both worlds in my use is Yozuri Hybrid in clear. It;s tough and has that added touch of Fluoro. I use 30lb mostly.

On flats and Albies I use ten pound fluoro. Tunoids have the best of fishdom's acuity senses.

eelman · 02-20-2007, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaptail

There is anintersting article in the 2006 IGFA Yearbook about fish sight and the way they view things like color and motion. It made me think about some things and make some changes.

First is the real value of Fluorocarbon. Acuity in fish (acuity = ability to see detail) differs in relation to water clarity and amount of light. We think of fish seeing as we do. Not even close.

Even in the clearest of waters fishes acuity is way less than ours. Add turbidity ( the amount of suspended silt/plant life and/or other organisms) and it's even less. I used to use 40 pound big game green for all my leaders and caught tons of fish day and night in flats water and deeper realms. Then I caught the Fluorocarbon bug, disapears in the water! Great! that will get me more fish I thought. Turns out it just ain't so.

Fishes ability to see varies from species to species. Some fish because of the way thier eyes are set see better from the side and some see better from the front ( our beloved Striped Bass see better from the front and slightly upward at that).

Some see the same color range as we do. Most do not. Marlin for example which I found really intriging, see only blues and greens, reds, browns and dirivitives there of are only seen as shades of gray.

Lures as we know, and thier coloration decrease in intensity the deeper the lure goes. After 15 feet color starts to rapidly loose inetensity. Greens and blues go first and reds/orange go after that but that is based on our eyes. Not fishes eyes.

The gist of the article was to debunk some myths about clear leaders and lure colors and detail of a lures design. No reason really to get very fine detail. It seems the number one deterrent or attractant is motion. It either moves like something edible or it doesn't and that they found triggers the most response of all.

Look it up they give some cool examples of how well fish can see and they have come up with a lot of new data.

Since a guy like Flap carries with him a ton of crediblity around these parts...re-read his post..Good job!

eelman · 02-20-2007, 07:11 AM

OK ! Since I do so well with live eels, I will tell you the secret...Its my leaders

I will tie them up for you at a cost of $10.00 a leader, I promise you will catch more bass...

NIB · 02-20-2007, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

Check your facts bud....Gloomis rods...Gifts...free..did not buy...Gloomis rep gave me several rods...and McKenna gave me the rest...not a penny spent....

Shimano calcutta reel...$150.00 (discount friends)..

Some kind of shoes with korkers $200?? Nope...My wading shoes were $50.00 bucks...Korkers...well yes....I would think any fool would agree that $75.00 is well spent money to avoid a long hospital stay and possibly paraylasis from a broken neck...which gives me a good idea...save the wasted money that flouro wouyld have cost and buy korkers...now thats a wise purchase..

Simms top....$199.00 Xmas gift money

Only one your correct on is the waders and I think I mentioned that in an earlier post , that was a comfort buy...Got huge discount on that also....paid wholesale....

And most of these "Luxery" surf items...I waited 20 years to buy....

I stick by my comment earlier.....Its the reasons for buying....I still say most buy the top end because they somehow think it will make them instant striper sharpies...And I am saying its not so...

One other thing....I fished a Quantum Iron most of last season...$89.00 bucks....................

Man I guess no one ever caught a bass before flouro...must be in the new century here that the bass decided to change....The fish I caught last year must have been geriatrics from a by gone era...cause I caught them pretty much at will day and night without flouro...Maybe the ones I fish for need glasses

I have no idea how u aquired ur fishing gear. The fact is as it is well documented.Here an in ur seminars..If i chose to emulate u.It would cost quite a bit of money.Not excactly entry level expenditures...
Hey, U use what u like. an I'll use what I like..If someone ask's i will tell em..
I cannot argue with ur success but it won't change my mind..
Test's are good reading.There's always lots of variables to consider..
I like the conclusions I have come to in my own tests.
Sure fishing today is loaded with weekend warriors.Guys who do not have the time for whatever reason to hit it hard.They work hard so they have perhaps some surplus cash.Is it such a horror for them to have decent gear.not in my book.I never judge a book by it's cover.I really have no interest in running into anyone when i fish.I certainly don't pay attention to what they are wearing...
Oh an thanks for the offer of tieng my leaders..
I'll have to decline as I can only trust my own knots...

eelman · 02-20-2007, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIB

I have no idea how u aquired ur fishing gear. The fact is as it is well documented.Here an in ur seminars..If i chose to emulate u.It would cost quite a bit of money.Not excactly entry level expenditures...
Hey, U use what u like. an I'll use what I like..If someone ask's i will tell em..
I cannot argue with ur success but it won't change my mind..
Test's are good reading.There's always lots of variables to consider..
I like the conclusions I have come to in my own tests.
Sure fishing today is loaded with weekend warriors.Guys who do not have the time for whatever reason to hit it hard.They work hard so they have perhaps some surplus cash.Is it such a horror for them to have decent gear.not in my book.I never judge a book by it's cover.I really have no interest in running into anyone when i fish.I certainly don't pay attention to what they are wearing...
Oh an thanks for the offer of tieng my leaders..
I'll have to decline as I can only trust my own knots...

Brutal, just brutal...Fot the last time I said that the gear does not make the fisherman...I have good gear? yes...Do is let me catch more fish? Nope....To many guys are SOLD on the notion that a certain product is going to make them better...doesnt work that way..

I never said in my seminars that a guy needs to go out and buy a calcutta..I only say it is my choice reel and that I only recomend conventional for slingin eels...

I Would also decline in return...as my knots are the only ones I trust...

shadow · 02-20-2007, 08:24 AM

man I'am glad gifts and dicounts don't count becuase I almost thought I was a stuates fisherman.

then the good news I found out I'am a sharpie becuase I just bought a Quantum iron (used$40)

NIB · 02-20-2007, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

I can outfish most guys with a $800 reel with an off the shelf Wally world special for 30 bucks....People are far to worried with there "gear" nowadays than acually catching fish...I saw guys in south county dressed up like a catalog for every accesory on the market...complete with boga grips , wet suits,drysuits,snorkels...its so ridiculas....hangin off there belts..they looked so lame I almost had to laugh..acually I did...Things in some respects have changed to a fisherman who is more concerned with what name brands he wears on his body or fishes with than acually catching fish...I would say all this new stuff was great if the new genaration outfished the old or the fish were somehow easier tyo catch...the truth is wearing 3000 bucks worth of accesories isnt catching anyone any more fish then the old times did with the penn 704 and handy ande line..

This is the age of the Materialistic fisherman indeed...suckered in at every turn by some "must have name".....

"And the truth shall set you free"

Brutal,This is brutal....
I was just trying to make a point..
U just don't get it.

Back Beach · 02-20-2007, 08:49 AM

I'm making Aglio oil over flouro tonight if anyone wants to come by for dinner. Bring all your old stuff. Make sure its at least 40# so it doesn't get caught in your teeth.

piemma · 02-20-2007, 08:54 AM

My .02 cents. I have used fluro leaders and never found a difference. I fish almost completely in the dark as does my partner Bryan. He too tried fluro leaders and never found a difference. In fact I use 50 mono I buy at Wally World for $1.95 for 150 yards. I have caught a ton of bass on them and never had a problem.
For me, I cannot justify the additional cost of fluro. Maybe there is a difference if you are fishing in daylight but then you are probably not using eels either

ChiefLinesider · 02-20-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow

man I'am glad gifts and dicounts don't count becuase I almost thought I was a stuates fisherman.

then the good news I found out I'am a sharpie becuase I just bought a Quantum iron (used$40)

chuckg · 02-20-2007, 12:08 PM

This is like deja vue all over again, thought this was discussed a couple of months ago, anyway, buy a spool of 50# big game, save your $$ on the flouro, go fishing more than you now do and you'll see your "luck" improve...

Mike P · 02-20-2007, 12:34 PM

Well, let me just go on the record here with this: let it be known far and wide that Mike P is very open to freebies and discounted stuff.

Sure, I have tons of my own, but if anyone wants to grease me, I'll certainly be amenable to using the stuff

Krispy · 02-20-2007, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

I also see that the guys who pump products from manufactures go a bit further....thats fine if selling your soul is what its all abaout....I dont do that, in fact when I talk, I do the oppisite...Trust me it ruffeles feathers when I will not conform...I dont give a %$%$%$%$...I would rather tell the truth than kiss some tackle shops arse or suck up to a plug builder etc...I tell it like it is...

At least with me you get a true picture not someone looking for the next speaking engadgement...I will never kiss arse...

....

Sluggos, sluggos, sluggos.............. Check

just bustin' chops dude

Krispy · 02-20-2007, 02:00 PM

I use flouro, maybe it works, maybe it dont. Any edge helps though, perceived or not. I wont leave it to chance.
I also use some fancy gear, it certainly helps the overall enjoyment factor of the fishing experience

chris L · 02-20-2007, 02:09 PM

mike you beat me to it .

but its a good thing there is all kinds of different gear for all the different opinions there are .

use what works best for you and so will I .

I use fruit of the loom mostly . I find the cheaper brands loose their elasticity over a short period of time . hanes work well but there is nothing better than fruit around your bung when you deep in suds while chaffing with sharks circling near by . not to mention the ease of skid mark removal .

walk well !