all Cape Cod National Seashore is closed

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by gone fishin

Support the MBBA in their effort to bring pressure legally to keep our access to the beaches.

That's a good cause, but the issue is a lot of us got sick of the empty promises and endless versions of the shell game played by the park service. It’s really not worth the aggravation, in my opinion. They can keep the %$%$%$%$ing place and share it with the twinkie bird huggers. You guys that continue to tough it out are my heroes, really.

[piemma]

Originally Posted by gone fishin

"Perhaps if you guys who are still buying the permits stopped for a year or 2 maybe the CCNS would feel the pinch from the lack of revenue. Perhaps the local economy in P-Town and Truo would also feel the lost dollars. Then maybe something sane could be enacted."

In response ----

The only problem with boycottting the CCNS is that our sticker money goes to paying their salaries and maintaining the seashore. If we don't buy a sticker the opinion on their side will be that there isn't enough demand to allow access to the beaches by vehicle. That is exactly the excuse the Audobon and the CCNS is looking for.

Support the MBBA in their effort to bring pressure legally to keep our access to the beaches.

Great point and one I considered. So it ends up being a Catch 22. Support the permit process and throw your money away or boycott the process and they think no one is interested and then they close down the whole damn thing.
I wonder if this is what JFK had in mind in 63 when he set aside the CCNS for the good of the common man?
I'll tell you one thing, if the fishing was like what we knew in the late 80s thru the late 90s there would be a war going on. I remember one night in 94 when there was a couple a thousand pounds of bass taken at the Second Rip in the hours between 1 and 4 am by about 20 guys. I was there and I can tell you that there wasn't a fish under 18 or 20 pounds kept. I stood right next to the late George Calzone on one side and the late Lanny Grazinni (who died 2 weeks ago) and these guys were amazed at the quality and quantity of fish we kept catching all night. It was insane!
No there were no Seals then!!!

[gone fishin]

Fred I have to agree with much of what you said. There are not many of the "old" crowd who remember when the seashore was stolen from the mobil fishermen. I too remember when there was no seals or mung or bird people keeping us off the beaches. I am still fighting because there is still a chance that my children and their children may eventually enjoy what we had, and not be bullied off the beaches.

I am sincerely hoping that the MBBA and the MSBA and the Rhode Island Saltwater Anglers Association and United Mobile Sportsmen and the Regional Fishing Alliance and New Jersey Beach Buggy Association and the Montauk Surfcasters, and the Plum Island Surfcasters and I hope the hell I have left off a few other organizations that are contributing to the legal fight to regain what is our right to the beaches. We cannot win the battle, but damn it we can win the war. Slip seems to be the only one on S-B that has got it right. We cannot win by fracturing our alliances, but must do something. If anyone wants an update on the MBBA fight please attend a meeting or two. Check out the website for any information and feel free to join the battle.

[BigFish]

Don.....I agree with alot of what you say! Here are a few reasons why, for the first time in 7 years, I have not gotten a sticker for driving on the Race!

1. Last year I got a sticker, paid $150.00 and due to the beach being closed almost the entire summer......I drove on only 1 time.....cost me $150.00!

2. The fishing the past 3-4 years has been in serious decline due, in my opinion, to the proliferation of those 600 pound rats!!! Not worth the ride all the way down there any longer.....prior to 2 years ago I drove down there AT LEAST once a week to fish.......it is very bad down there now!

3. Gas prices this year being what they are and the before mentioned fact that the fishing is not what it once was.....again, its not worth it!

4. Plovers....nuff said!

5. Mung! Nuff said!

For me to spend $150.00 on a sticker I can't use to simply prove some point that is going to breeze past anyone who needs to listen is just plain silly!

To sum up.....costs too much for the amount of time we can use it, seals, plovers, mung, lack of what would be any descent fishing from shore!!!

Can you give me a better reason to buy a sticker than "just because"?

You know I love the Cape.....just got back from 2 weeks in Wellfleet, someplace I truely love, and I will continue to vacation there because I love it there......but I have wiped any delusions from my mind that the fishing is ever going to be the slammer it once was! I fished down there quite a bit the last 2 weeks.....tally between myself, Angie and my boys was 3 dink bass and 6 rat blues! Saw nothing of size caught and heard alot of folks with the same complaints I have mentioned above!

[Flaptail]

You know, I hope for the best, I mean I attended the public meetings in P-Town in December and March or was that February, but my optimism must be replaced by realism and that is as long as the Plover exsists and even though it's recovery rate is greatest on Cape Cod, it stinks to our south on Long Island and other southern and mid Atlantic beaches. That being the case, the MBBA, MSBA, LIBBA SB.COM and God himself will not change the way things are. It was apparent at the meetings, the CCNS peoples hands are tied and no matter how cordial and apologetic and no matter how many plugs for access are sold in a noble effort and how good the legal fund is or the lawyers it buys, what you see and have is what you are going to get. Squawk all you want, your in a losing battle. I knew this would come to pass the moment the last meeting ended. Take off the rose colored glasses boys and girls. You will not win this one, no way no chance. It's fantasy pure and simple to think you could. The sad reality is that you never could in the first place.

Buy a freaking boat. is doomed, it's only a matter of time.

Fire away!!!!!

[Slipknot]

I'm not gonna fire away Steve, but I am not giving up hope, it's all we got. That last meeting was a freakin joke. Accomplished NOTHING!
It's not just fishermen that use the beach, families go there during the day to enjoy it and some bring relatives that may be older and it's difficult for them to get around, so driving on allows them the luxury of enjoying the beach still, same goes for the handicapped. The seashore is for all of us, not for a select few to keep us out of there. Yep, we are paying for the success of the recovering plovers with lost access, it's a shame but we shouldn't give up. I am with gonefishing also, I'd like the backbeach to be a place in the future that our kids can enjoy.

I may have to sell my camper in Wellfleet, but that won't stop me from buying a sticker, I'll deal with the issues. I still have 2 feet and a skiff also

and Larry, it's gonna open, it may not all the way to Hatches, but we will be able to drive on soon then later, like Mike said the beach is thin at the entrance at high tide but we should be able to get close from the north entrance once those birds fly away.


Thanks Mike for that info on the bird checks, is that going by the federal regs about just picking a date? 5 straight days huh, well it should have been open by now, they are just screwing with us now, I am gonna write to them since they are impossible to get on the phone. I wonder if there is documentation on these supposed plovers 5 days passed a while ago.
when I walked out Sat. the same tracks seemed to be in the sand as the week before, you know alot more than I do Mike.


I wonder what happens to the plovers that nest on a certain golf course in Hyannis hmmmmmmmmmm bet they don't have to stay away from them with their golfcarts


AMERICA the land that I love

[pal156]

supposedly opening small section on north tomorrow and 1/2 mile by weekend

[2na]

I agree with both Flap and Slip. The Seashore administration does have its hands tied, and even though these meetings have now been exposed as a joke and a waste of time, to just throw it in is an unacceptable alternative. The dune tours guys have access through #8 - we gotta push for that. I'm tired of the beach community taking all the burden of the beach closings - it's time to share the load. It's time for other user groups to feel a little inconvenience. That was the main excuse of the head bird (see you next tuesday) the infamous 'ace in the hole' comment of the meeting. After dealing with total beach closure over the last two years I'm not feeling a lot of sympathy for any 'potential adverse impact on the dune community' because they have to see our trucks drive past them, just like the dune tours and the rangers do. Steve, there is plenty of birdless beach out there, we just got to force them to allow us access to it.

Bruce, I don't know about the regs regarding the dates. I think that Fish and Game makes it up as they go along, and Price rubber stamps it because Prokov (or Prokoff, whatever) is and incompetent and has no plan. These bureaucratic lifers just don't want to rock the boat until their next plum assignment comes along, and I think they need to have more pressure, like picketing their homes and such, to bring home the point that we've had it. Remember: Fish and Game is filled with environmental ideological zealots and want the whole world, never mind the beach, turned into a nature preserve. And they have their act and their talking points together. No one is out there pushing our cause like that. And the rangers that do (and there are a lot of them) are ignored or forced into retirement.

[jkswimmer]

We tried picketing in 1989 and they did open the Race shortly there after, because it cost them for crowd control.

[2na]

Gone, you're right to some degree, but it would be hard for them to argue that when 1000 vehicles were in cue in 2004 (?) to get stickers. That's why I put, in my letter to the CCNS when the comment period for beach access was open

Originally Posted by ptmike

Three years ago, demand for ORV permits was so great that over 1000 vehicles cued up for a sticker on the first day permits were available. The desire of citizen taxpayers for access to the resource is vividly demonstrated there. The last two summers demand for permits has decreased markedly. This is not because people do not want to use the resource, but because they are being denied access to it. Just as the Seashore did not have the vision to see the value of the dune shacks history and destroyed them once vacant, the Seashore now does not see that it is destroying a once vibrant and healthy local economy and beach community because the usual and customary access to the beach is being denied. Management methods used by the Cape Cod National Seashore place far to high a burden on the ORV community without asking any sacrifice of any other user groups.

Something must be attempted to break away from the stagnant policies and practices that are and causing the decline of both the local economy and the beach community. Simply closing beach to ORV’s and not reducing the predation that cause the vast, vast majority of mortality of endangered species, or not providing alternate means of ORV access to unaffected beach, is not an acceptable solution. Alternate methods of protecting the endangered species of the Seashore must be envisioned, devised and/or implemented, even on a trial or experimental basis.

At these hearings over the last year I have heard many creative suggestions from the audience, and the one common thread in the Seashore’s response is that they all contain the word “Can’t”. It is time to turn the culture of the administration of the Cape Cod National Seashore from one that “Can’t” to one that Can.

[2na]

BTW, there is a little sand open at the north side ranger station now - you can drive on the beach and turn around - that's it. At least it is a start.

[BigFish]

Damn....I am gonna run down for my sticker!

[jkswimmer]

The problem with the whole thing is we do not spend enough of money there. On one sunny weekend with the parking lots full they make more money than they do off of oversand stickers. And all you need is a couple of life guards to watch the people in Speedos, no late night patrols. Just read the read opinion page in the Cape Cod Times. Opinions are agaist us. I hope for the best but it seems unlikely to gain any more access. By the way I did buy a sticker this year. The beach south of Balston looks good for night fishing only , only a wish.

[Jenn]

[QUOTE=jkswimmer;509127]The problem with the whole thing is we do not spend enough of money there. On one sunny weekend with the parking lots full they make more money than they do off of oversand stickersQUOTE]


?????? are you kidding? 3000 stickers at $150 is $450,000 (and thats not including the self contained at a higher cost or the weeklies)Now I am not sure how many parking spaces there are at RP but I will guess 100. I think its $15.00 a day to park so $1500.00 a day for 60 days (july & aug) is only $90,000. Again I dont generally park in the lot so maybe my numbers are way off.....


also as far as night patrols...I can tell you they arent patrolling like they should...or used to when the sticker was a quarter of the price.