Michael Vick--

[bart]

Originally Posted by Raven

i don't think pitt bulls should be allowed in america period

they are here for one reason... fighting other dogs
or keeping the cops or drug thieves out...

any that show the killer attack dog tendancy should
'be killed ...any that are lovable and sweet are an acception
if they are neutered or spayed.

agreed

[The Dad Fisherman]

The only thing that A.I. did to change basketball is turn it into a "Me" game......and please don't tell me that taking 40 shots a game in the hopes that 15 find the bottom of the net is NOT an "All about me" attitude.

A.I. may be number 3 in Points per game......Now.......But in 10 years he won't be sitting there. The 2 guys above him have ended there careers and his points per game WILL be going down in the next few years. His points per dropped over 6 points after he went to Denver.....Because it ain't gonna be all about him, he'll have to share the spotlight with Carmello Anthony.

As far as Micheal Vick....He is nothing more than a sideshow attraction in the NFL, or I should say was. He put fans in the seats and sold jerseys for the NFL. People watched him because every 3rd game he would do something incredible when he was scrambling and people wanted to see it. He's a great Athlete but an Average (maybe) QB, and he is now a peice of Crap as a Human Being as far as I'm concerned.

[EarnedStripes44]

Iverson is 5'11 and 170lbs or something and he plays a 2 guard, third all time scorer ever. He almost broke Jordan's ankle.

[EarnedStripes44]

He took his team to championship and played his heart out against Shaq and lost respectfully, no sweep. As far as one dimensional, assist anyone....

[EarnedStripes44]

Vick is also a small quaterback by league standards as well

[EarnedStripes44]

and as far as thugs are concerned, the biggest thug of them all is our very own vice-president, yes......#^&#^&#^&#^& Cheney

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

third all time scorer ever. He almost broke Jordan's ankle.

He is NOT the 3rd all time scorer ever....he isn't even in the top 25.

he is 3rd on the list in points per game average....not the same. and as I stated that average WILL be going down over the next 10 years of his career.

Here is a list of the top 25 All-Time Scorers....And A.I. is not the same caliber player as most of these guys

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 38,387
2. Karl Malone 36,928
3. Michael Jordan 32,292
4. Wilt Chamberlain 31,419
5. Moses Malone 27,409
6. Elvin Hayes 27,313
7. Hakeem Olajuwon 26,946
8. Oscar Robertson 26,710
9. Dominique Wilkins 26,668
10. John Havlicek 26,395
11. Alex English 25,613
12. Shaquille O'Neal 25,454
13. Reggie Miller 25,279
14. Jerry West 25,192
15. Patrick Ewing 24,815
16. Charles Barkley 23,757
17. Robert Parish 23,334
18. Adrian Dantley 23,177
19. Elgin Baylor 23,149
20. Clyde Drexler 22,195
21. Gary Payton 21,813
22. Larry Bird 21,791
23. Hal Greer 21,586
24. Walt Bellamy 20,941
25. Bob Pettit 20.880

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

Vick is also a small quaterback by league standards as well

I don't care about that, either he is a good QB or a not so Good QB, size withstanding.......Flutie was smaller and I'd rather have him in his prime leading a team than Vick in his prime.....And Flutie is a pretty up-standing guy too, unlike Vick.

[EarnedStripes44]

He is third average points per game

[EarnedStripes44]

thats right baby......3rd, after Mike Jordan and the great Wilt the Stilt

[EarnedStripes44]

some other stats you forgot....

All time leading scorer for Georgetown U. (so what its college)
NBA 1996 Rookie of the Yr.

Also while a Rookie: Iverson led the Sixers with 23.5 points (sixth in the NBA), 7.5 assists (10th) and 2.07 steals (seventh) and 40.1 minutes per game.

In the 1998-1999 season, Iverson had his first trip to the playoffs. He started all ten playoff games and averaged 44.4 minutes per game despite being hampered by a number of nagging injuries. Iverson led the Sixers to an upset over the higher seeded Orlando Magic, before losing to a veteran laden Indiana Pacers squad. That year, he averaged 26.8 points earning his first scoring title.

The next year, Iverson averaged 28.4 points and once again led the 76ers into the playoffs. In the playoffs, Iverson averaged 26.2 points, 4.8 assists, 4.0 rebounds and 1.30 steals per game, with a high of 40 points in the first round opener at Charlotte on April 22. That season, he was the only player other than Shaquille O'Neal to get a NBA Most Valuable Player vote.

2001, Best season (arguable). All Star MVP Honors at All Star Game
That year Sixers went 56-26, he averaged career high 31.1 pts a game. NBA Final Appearance lost to juggernaut lakers. SCORED PLAYOFF HIGH 48 VERSE SHAQ w/ KOBE GUARDING HIM!!!!!

31.4 pts per game 02 season, playoff appearance

I could say more, including his tenure in the OLYMPICs, but I wont...

Just savior those daddy?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

He is third average points per game

Really....I didn't know that

[EarnedStripes44]

Iverson is a HALL OF FAMER, despite how you feel about Vick. Doug Flutie is for the Canadians!!!! He is SO 2nd string. Get a grip Pa!!! He is the oldest player (drum roll) to rush for a whole 2 touchdowns in one game, so I'll give you that, but FLutie belongs exactly where he is, commentating for College Sports.

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

and as far as thugs are concerned, the biggest thug of them all is our very own vice-president, yes......#^&#^&#^&#^& Cheney

Dog fighting evolved to Cheney Derangment Syndrome, big surpise. Vick is a pos thug. Deal with it.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Here are a couple of More Allen Iverson "Stats"

1993 - Serverd jail time for Being involded in a Mob fight at a Bowling Alley and hitting a Girl with a chair. Sentenced to 4-15 years


2002 - Philadelphia 76ers star Allen Iverson surrendered to police July 16, 2002 to face criminal charges that include four felonies for allegedly threatening two people with a gun. Iverson, who led the NBA in scoring last season, would plead not guilty to criminal trespass, simple assault, weapons violations and other charges at an arraignment, his attorney told reporters. (Philadelphia Police via Reuters)

Charges from this incident -

Criminal trespass, felony, two counts

Criminal conspiracy, felony, one count

Violation of the Uniform Firearms Act, felony, one count

Violation of the Uniform Firearms Act, misdemeanor, one count

Simple assault, misdemeanor, two counts

Terroristic threats, misdemeanor, two counts

Unlawful restraint, misdemeanor, two counts

False imprisonment, misdemeanor, two counts

Possession of an instrument of crime, misdemeanor, one count


Yeah he's a REAL Peach of a guy.

Let's not forget all the times he feels he's to good to practice with the team too.......

[fishbones]

How many turnovers does Iverson average per game? What is his shooting percentage compared to the greats in NBA history? Anyone can pick and choose stats to make their guy look like a Hall of Famer.
As far as Vick, he has never won anything and has never put up overall numbers to show that he is anything other than an average to below average NFL QB. He is a runner and not a passer, and the teams that win Superbowls have QB's who can pass. On top of all that, he has shown that he is a punk buy flipping off his own fans and he is a loser for hanging around criminals who participate in dog fighting.
You can have all of your athletes that are part of the thug culture that is so pervasive in our society. That is one of the reasons why our country is going down the toilet. Kids look up to these idiots and model their behavior after them. Give me the Tim Duncans and the Troy Browns or Ahman Greens of the world anyday. Those are guys that I would be proud to have my son look up to. They play the game the way it is supposed to be played and they act like gentlemen off the court and field. Just remember, there is nothing wrong with being a "good guy".

[EarnedStripes44]

So I guess we have crossed the line into the world of ethics. Is Robert Downey Jr. a bad actor because of his stints in rehab, because he's pretty amazing actor. How about Tom's indiscretion's with Brazilian models and the baby-mama syndrome. How about George Bush? our president, Ted Kennedy......etc, etc. C',mon guys, I know you insist on moral absolutes, but lets leave the politics out of sports and not admonish thoughs because the media says so. Vick, is on his own, but life is not without mistakes. #^&#^&#^&#^& Cheney was kicked out Yale twice. When is the media gonna get on his case about his connections to war profiteers, but no, American Staffordshire Terriers are the most dangerous dogs ever. Hooray for Doug Flutie, the Canadian national hero. How about, Iverson contributions to charity....should I mention those? NO, because were talking sports, you guys are a lot like my wife...

[EarnedStripes44]

thugs didn't orchestrate the war in Iraq. Thugs don't import guns, drugs or make this place appeal to illegal immigrants. Blame the thugs in government for blowing a hole in America. Blame the record industry for promoting these thugs. Place blame where it belongs. I fear the corporate elite more than fear any homeless thug on the street corner.

[EarnedStripes44]

Albert Gonzales need I say more people should be burning effigies in the street. But we have Mike Vick for that, scapegoats

[The Dad Fisherman]

Baseball needs More Cal Ripkens and less Barry Bonds
Basketball needs more Bill Russells and Less Allen Iversons
and Football Needs More Troy Browns and less Micheal Vicks

Is it to much to ask of these people if we are going to continue to pay a lot of cash to watch them play that they at least try to be good members of society and something that the youth of America can look up to......istead of a bunch of Steroid Using, Gun Toting, Tattoo Covered, Foul Mouthed Thugs who think that We owe Them.

[EarnedStripes44]

Let's just respect athleticism, keep it at that. That's what spectating is about.

Allen Iverson, great basketball player, introduced the stutter step/crossover into the NBA.....credit when its due! Hall of Famer, see you in Springfield

Mike Vick, well he sure wont be a PETA spokesperson, but he is a GOOD quaterback, not GREAT, but GOOD and we already know about the receivers

Doug Flutie.......natick high's very own, Canadian national hero, what can I say. But I'll say one thing, the Canadian dollar is about to be worth more than the American dollar. Gotta love those thugs over at the Treasury department. Run up the bill, someone else will pay for it, like our grand kids.

American Staffordshire Terriers- Great fighting dogs, but its great owners who make great dogs.

[bart]

thugs do orchestrate dog fights and get in domestic disputes, they get in brawls in bowling alleys, they get caught with suspicious water bottles, and they're just plain stupid. and so is your defense of these two morons.....

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

thugs didn't orchestrate the war in Iraq. Thugs don't import guns, drugs or make this place appeal to illegal immigrants. Blame the thugs in government for blowing a hole in America. Blame the record industry for promoting these thugs. Place blame where it belongs. I fear the corporate elite more than fear any homeless thug on the street corner.

You are the classic example of the guy who is losing an argument, and changes the topic completely. This started about Vick and then you brought Iverson into the discussion. Now that it has been shown that both of those guys are pieces of garbage, you move on to something else. You can get in your electric car and go preach to your liberal wingnuts in Cambridge about your views on the war and drugs in America and everything else that is wrong with our country. Those are topics for another thread and do not belong in this one.
Vick is an example of a guy who thinks he is above the law and can do whatever he wants because of who he is. Now, he'll never be able to become a good QB because he's a jerk. He has already been told not to report to minicamp this week. That's not a good sign for his future in the NFL.

[EarnedStripes44]

Losing an argument. I compared Vick's style of play to Iverson's only in the sense of that they are both non-traditional styles of play for the particular positions held. With regards to the dogfighting, Vick is screwed, there is no doubt about that....no need to argue about that. Vick and Iverson are both from the street, no need to argue about that. Thugs fighting in bolling alleys over a Red Sox game, or because they are drunk is o k with me. #^&#^&#^&#^& Cheney on the other hand is not, but thats for another thread. From the beginning, I stated that if Vick had the right set up (which may be his inherent flaw because he doesnt seem to be coachable) he could be the most dangerous player in the game, regardless of whether or not he is a dog owner. Lest we forget, he was 7th in winning percentage of all quaterbacks starting last season. Finneran, his go to guy, was injured. Peerliss Price is just plain overrated, ,much like many of you claim Vick is. Alge Crumpler had a good year, but he's nowhere near as good as other TE and he's about as slow rush hour on the southeast expressway. Give him Antonio Gates, and then.....or put him with a solid squad, not the FALCONS, eventhough been to the NFC Championship on Vick's watch. I think he should play for the Jaguars personally. I am the only person presenting sports related statistics, everything else are just value judgements, personal beefs and ramblings about America's thug culture. This country was built on thuggery. I leave the morals for the church, and the sports for the fans...

[EarnedStripes44]

Will the real Sports Fan's please stand up. Everything else is just gossip.

[EarnedStripes44]

...and remember, all you hotsauce right wingers, we used to be innocent until proven guilty. Albert Gonzales is over the Justice Dept. The same cronies investigating Vick, no one has yet to question their credibility. The Surry County DA wanted to make sure the case was watertight, but the FEDS went in for the kill.

[EarnedStripes44]

I repeat 7th in winning percentage of starting quaterbacks last season, before the injuries....that may not make you GREAT, but that damn sure is GOOD......

[EarnedStripes44]

I feel like you guys are ignoring the facts...and I can't imagine that all you guys volunteer at the Humane Society. Say what you want about Vick's personal life, I'll put you on the phone with my wife and she'll give you an earful about A.I., A-Rod, Vick, etc...., just acknowledge that at the very least, VERY LEAST he is a GOOD quaterback (some of you have already done so, but those others, you know you are). So all personal inklings aside, whose losing?

[EarnedStripes44]

...And one more thing, if Vick is overrated, then A-Rod must just plain be a fraud.

[EarnedStripes44]

that's right, he has 7 years in the league, but he is only 27. He has (a conservative estimate) of at least 3 to 4 seasons left before he starts getting worn. Remember, his arm is not as bad as people make it out to be. Kurt Warner, the greatest accuracy passer of all time, his career completion percentage was arount 65% and he played till he was 35. And with regards to winning, Vick was 7th of the starting quaterbacks at the start of last season. Again that number is not great, but definitely GOOD. Last season was by far his worst season. That same tired, worn out accuracy excuse they apply to all quaterbacks that run. McNabb, Vince Young, Charlie Frye....etc, etc, etc. I feel like I am talking in circles. For you, we can just talk sports, not politics. But I reaffirm my position that dog fighting is disgusting, and for all practical purposes Vick is done because of said allegations.