Van Staal [SIZE="1"]made in china[/SIZE]

[maddog2020]

If you need your VS service it will still be done in Tulsa, OK. Assembling the VS is a cake walk. It is a dumb fishing reel not a part for the aerospace industry. This isn't rocket science .... LOL.

Regardless of where it is made and as long as they use the correct material to make the parts it should be easy. Setting up the tooling is critical. Stealing the design is a joke - any one with a pair of calipers can copy the thing IMHO. There isn't anything special about it.

So many goods are made abroad now. Look at all the nice fishing rods coming out of China now for CHEAP $. Top quality Fuji parts: hardloy guides, reel seat, neoprene shrink wrap and so forth for under $100. Tsunami and other brands have adjust THEIR prices, but why NOT some of these other companies?! You can make the $ thru volume OR make it as lower cost and pocket the $. WC Bradley is pocketing the $$ they save for the Van Staal reels made in China. Isn't this the American way?! Sorry to be sarcastic. I'm not buying into the newer style VS reels period. If I decide to keep them, I'll stick with the US made ones.

I don't doubt that VS reels made abroad will be the same or better quality of the US made ones. I've seen plenty of US made black VS with mis-matched anodizing out there where it was more of a deep purple than it was black.

Zeebaas aren't flawless. First batch had issues of the spool gasket bottoming out on the rotor underneath. They were made aware of it and fixed it, BUT the stack up tolerances bit them on that one. They were lacking on QC there for sure. You would think that those first hundred would have been "perfect" before they released them out to the dealers! ZB knew what they were up against with anal anglers...... LOL. There must be other glitches with it I am sure. JohhR - your ZB perfect or ya got some issues with yours?! I bet those who did get one are embarassed to admit they are some problems. I know the guy who designed the reel is always interested in getting feedback on the ZB. Retail prices on a longer power handle with a different knob is PAINFUL! OUCH ..... some good $ for one.

Look at the country of origin on consumer goods - 90% of the stuff out there is from Asia. Most of it is fine. They just need to understand we don't USE lead paint any more! It would be extremely hard to buy ALL US made products for everything now a days.

Man, it IS going to be a longer winter.

[lurch]

Originally Posted by maddog2020

It is a dumb fishing reel not a part for the aerospace industry. This isn't rocket science .... LOL.

All the QA folks do in my office is run a script that was created years ago but software bugs are not caught with the folks in India because they are not as familiar with the product.

I understand that assembling a reel is not rocket science but it would super suck if the reel fails because of a newbie forgot to add the sphincter pin caused by a lack of assembly experience.

[Adam_777]

If Pete says the thing is the same except the annodizing is better.Thats good news.Would have been worse if he said the new plastic handle and balsa drag knob wear out quick.Pete knows what he's talking about.He also said earlier in the year.So who knows how long they have been making them over there could date back 3 or 4 years.The whole Tulsa thing could have just been a front for Zebco.So it looked like it was made in the USA.Most likely a few illegals stuffed into a confined area tearing down and re-assembling for peacework.My only advice is if you want one buy it,if you have one keep it.Just learn how to do the maintenance on your own .Get a bunch of seals,o-rings and lube.After you tear it down yourself and put it back together the only thing you can blame reel failure on is yourself.Not the illegals in tulsa or the china men or women trying to survive on peanuts.Big Business's are always looking to cut corners and save a buck sad but true.

[HESH2]

sad to say everything today is made in china.there are no mfg in the states anymore,at least in ct.all popular auto's are foreign,the american big 3 auto co are all close to going under along with there dealers.if vs was to lower the price to reflect the savings they would increase their market share.i'm not convinced ct. vs'a-reel ventures vs-zebco vs's ever made a turn your head profit.check your vs serial ####### and figure in your mind what they made for profit after dealer mark up and expenses,i think very little per reel.how many zee bass reels out there at $1200 each,not many.

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by Adam_777

If Pete says the thing is the same except the annodizing is better.Thats good news.

Just to be clear about the anodizing being "bettter" this isn't something anyone will really be able see even when looking for it. This was real nit-picking here.

On the Tulsa machined parts which were anodized silver you could often see slight trails or scratches where the machine cut the metal. Basically tiny irrelevent imperfections no one would notice unless you were REALLY hunting for them but at the same time you wouldn't see that sort of imprefection on a Abel or Tibor fly reel, a ZeeBaas, or other high end machined item so we had mentioned it to VS last year.

The silver reel we got early this year just didn't have any of that.

In hindsight, basically ignore that I even mentined it...

[maddog2020]

Ey Mike P, I don't agree w/ the folks that own VS that they won't lower the price what so ever. I don't like blue collar guys like myself losing jobs due to businesses closing because manufacturing was moved to China. Sad part is people will continue to buy VS reels regardless of where they are made and the cost.

I didn't doubt people destroy a VS reel at all, MikeP. None of my inner circle of friends have busted one (most don't fish the Canal either).The side plate coming off is due to poor engineering - it should have been threaded the opposite direction so if it did ever loosen up you would end up tightening it up from just cranking on the handle. Of course it confuses the service person working on it because people automatically think righty tighty and lefty loosey ..... LOL. The brainiac who came up with the non hex side plate deserves idiot award of the century - they did that to stop guys from self-servicing it essentially.

From a business stand point the only was VS was going to survive was for the production of it to go abroad otherwise they would have never taken on the endeaver IMHO. Would you rather pay a person $1/hr or $30/hr for the same job?

I had heard from a source that Van Staal use to get all of it's aluminum for free from some aerospace industry ( it was their scrap) and that eventually dried up when the person left.

So be sure now to advertise that your reel is USA made verses China & you can charge premium prices now..... LOL. Who wants to wager $$ that you WILL see this advertise on Ebay now and drive the prices up. Oh, America - ya gotta love the guy looking to make a buck on something. :P

[ProfessorM]

As we slowly move forward to manufacturing absolutely nothing in this country anymore. Sad but reality. The only thing you can hope for is the things down the road end up being sub par and they regret their business decision to do so. I don't like to wish ill will on anyone and probably am living in the good old days with my thoughts but going out of the country too make more of a profit and to put skilled manufactures out of a job in this country is a slap in the face to people who have chosen to learn a difficult trade for many years only to be thrown out of their lively hood. I am probably an A 1 hypocrite for making these statements as I am sure I own lots of stuff that was made overseas, but if you can't get them from this country you have no other choice. My view is if we continue to make the choice to make bigger profits by going with the cheapest labor, and cheapest quality, than no one will go into this trade, as is mostly the case now, and then what happens after all us die and we can't even make a widget anymore. As is always the case nowadays it's all about the money. It is in sports, business, everything. Make the most profit no matter what. IMO a short term view to make the most money with no concern on what will happen in the decades to come. Merry x-mas

[Adam_777]

I think I saw a Chinese knock off on ebay already.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Adam_777

I think I saw a Chinese knock off on ebay already.

Link?

[Adam_777]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Link?

Was not a knock off was another reel made in china with VS in the description.

[saltwater]

I have a link for you Mr. JohnR regarding Van Stall reels. I find this pretty interesting. I am a long time "lurker",first time poster, so not to sure of the rules on links. Or can I send you an e-mail instead?

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by saltwater

I have a link for you Mr. JohnR regarding Van Stall reels. I find this pretty interesting. I am a long time "lurker",first time poster, so not to sure of the rules on links. Or can I send you an e-mail instead?

I'm pretty sure that John allows links--unless they're to a porno site .

[Brother Brian]

I've been chewing on this for a couple of days and I guess it comes down to intent. I think by intention it was never 'announced' that this was happening. I don't give a monkeys red rump about the reels origin. I got a 200 a couple of months ago and fished it hard enough to know that it works as advertised. What bugs me is that the intention was there to deceive. It's that kind of action that makes you 'feel' that something isn't what it is proported to be.

[saltwater]

Heres a link ---Are these real Van Staals??? or Fakes??? Check the price on these, and where they are located


http://www.diytrade.com/directory/gl...ning_Reel.html

[RIJIMMY]

That sucks, plain and simple.
At least my US made one will be all the more valuable if/when I sell it.

[maddog2020]

LMFAO, Lurch. That was a good one! Thanks for the chuckle dude.....lol.

Oh, I'm getting some great laughs from this thread.

Other service centers for VS? At least that one would be on the east coast - a little closer than Tulsa! Doesn't mean the turn around could be any better depending on the time of the yr.

I'm in awe that VS doesn't sell a self-service kit any more. They USE to sell one along with the hex service wrenches for the hex side plates. No one bothered to put together a self-service O-ring kit. There are some little tricks with the o-rings, but again it isn't rocket science. They probably don't want to deal with getting sued over it. <g>

[RIJIMMY]

thats funny I played a mex tele once and it blew away my 52 reissue. About 1/3 the price too!

[Water Treater]

I work in the water treatment industry (water treating chemicals and services for power plants, central heating plants, chilled water plants, wastewater treatment plants, etc.) where product quality must always be 100%, similar to pharmaceuticals. We cannot afford to ship off spec chemical treatments.

My company does not purchase Chinese-origin raw materials because we cannot be sure the quality will be consistent. (Our Chief Chemist of 38 years is Chinese and says "forget it" when we discuss purchasing raw materials from Communist China.) The price of Chinese chemicals is sometimes one half that of our domestic suppliers and the quality is very good....that is, until the 12th order. YIKES!!! That's when you'll experience the real China.

I'm sure good quality Van Staal reels can be manufactured in Communist China but you can count on also getting some real lemons, too. I can't afford to drive 100 miles (one way) to outer Cape Cod to fish the beaches at night and discover that my Chinese made spinning reel does not work.

I own Model 100, 150, and 200 Van Staals with low serial numbers, bought years ago. They have been great (not fished hard because I fish (troll) from a boat all summer long) but I wouldn't buy a VS reel if it was made in China. I cannot afford to take that risk. I'm a fisherman , not a gambler.

[hyefisherman2]

so what does all this mean?

should i buy my silver 250 ive always wanted this spring? or should i buy the new zeebaas?

[togue]

Van Staal "Made In China", what did any of you expect to happen?

Personally, I would prefer "Made In The USA", but that's life.

It is a little late to sound the warning bell or to complain. As insideous as the loss of American manufacturing may sound, realize that we did it to ourselves. We demanded the higher wages and benefits, without realizing how good we had it here in the USA compared to the majority of the rest of the world.

We all want better gear so we can fish more in our "free time".

The Chinese don't need to worry about "free time" like we do, the vast majority of them don't have any. Even if they did, they don't have much freedom of choice as to how they might spend it. For the most part they are just happy to have a roof over their heads and something to eat. Like the Boss said, "hunger is a powerful tool". The demand for cheap labor is the #1 reason we can't even bring ourselves to secure the borders, even if that means we give the bad guys easy access to our wide open back door.

All in all, it is simply a question of affordability.

We all vote with our dollars every time we shop. How we spend them determines how the "market" responds. Don't complain about Walmart, etc., they don't build those super stores stuffed with all that cheap crap and manage to keep all the lights on without an abundance of shoppers voting with their dollars.

Listen to what is being said here by many posters: "I hope they lower the VS price". Who doesn't? The "dream" is that with lower price, we can buy more, maybe get that reel we've been itching for but couldn't swing the extra cash to pick up. Will they lower the price? I doubt it. VS reels already carry a sticker price twice what they did a couple of years ago.

What made America great? Our ability to out-manufacture our rivals. This has won all the previous wars, on the world economic front as well as the battlefield. Sad to say, we are losing this war.

How many of you have a workshop? Ever turn a lure? Look in your toolbox my friend. Got any cordless tools? Great, aren't they, but they weren't made in the USA. I doubt very many of you own so much as a hammer "made in the USA" anymore, unless you have an antique. All made in China now. And what about the machine and/or power tools? Not many Bridgeports or Hardinge machines in your basement shop are there? Its all JET, and Grizzly, heck even the Delta stuff has been made in China for a decade.

Am I any better? Nope. I'm going to buy another Van Staal soon, and will keep doing the same until someone can point me in the direction of a "better" alternative, and if it turns out to be cheaper, so much the better. But would I give "made in the USA" any preference? You betcha! That difference was why I bought the VS instead of a Stella or a Saltiga in the first place. Sadly, we just don't have any choice any more.

[Steve K]

Originally Posted by togue

Van Staal "Made In China", what did any of you expect to happen?

Personally, I would prefer "Made In The USA", but that's life.

It is a little late to sound the warning bell or to complain. As insideous as the loss of American manufacturing may sound, realize that we did it to ourselves. We demanded the higher wages and benefits, without realizing how good we had it here in the USA compared to the majority of the rest of the world.

We all want better gear so we can fish more in our "free time".

The Chinese don't need to worry about "free time" like we do, the vast majority of them don't have any. Even if they did, they don't have much freedom of choice as to how they might spend it. For the most part they are just happy to have a roof over their heads and something to eat. Like the Boss said, "hunger is a powerful tool". The demand for cheap labor is the #1 reason we can't even bring ourselves to secure the borders, even if that means we give the bad guys easy access to our wide open back door.

All in all, it is simply a question of affordability.

We all vote with our dollars every time we shop. How we spend them determines how the "market" responds. Don't complain about Walmart, etc., they don't build those super stores stuffed with all that cheap crap and manage to keep all the lights on without an abundance of shoppers voting with their dollars.

Listen to what is being said here by many posters: "I hope they lower the VS price". Who doesn't? The "dream" is that with lower price, we can buy more, maybe get that reel we've been itching for but couldn't swing the extra cash to pick up. Will they lower the price? I doubt it. VS reels already carry a sticker price twice what they did a couple of years ago.

What made America great? Our ability to out-manufacture our rivals. This has won all the previous wars, on the world economic front as well as the battlefield. Sad to say, we are losing this war.

How many of you have a workshop? Ever turn a lure? Look in your toolbox my friend. Got any cordless tools? Great, aren't they, but they weren't made in the USA. I doubt very many of you own so much as a hammer "made in the USA" anymore, unless you have an antique. All made in China now. And what about the machine and/or power tools? Not many Bridgeports or Hardinge machines in your basement shop are there? Its all JET, and Grizzly, heck even the Delta stuff has been made in China for a decade.

Am I any better? Nope. I'm going to buy another Van Staal soon, and will keep doing the same until someone can point me in the direction of a "better" alternative, and if it turns out to be cheaper, so much the better. But would I give "made in the USA" any preference? You betcha! That difference was why I bought the VS instead of a Stella or a Saltiga in the first place. Sadly, we just don't have any choice any more.

Spot on Togue. The people who complain about everything being built overseas should be the first to stop shopping at Walmart.

[Brother Brian]

I emailed them asking if the reel was manufactured in the USA or not and if not, what serial number represents the switch.

For whatever it is worth, here is their response;

All reels are being manufactured in the US today. However, we utilize many of the manufacturing facilities around the world to improve product quality and our technological advantage.

I can not give you serial numbers because the change has not been made.

[stripercrazy]

they moved to china so the price don't go up...they had to...there only saveing us cash really...I'm a believer, amen brotherfiggers the year I finally decide to get one, they move and now the old used one will go up in price...murphy's law

[maddog2020]

If parts start busting look at where it breaks and you can tell if it was cast or solid stock. Lots of places machine sand cast parts - bodies of the reels & spools for example. If it was machined you can look at the inside of it or the bottom of it and see where it was cast. No hiding machine marks or cast marks.

Huge cost difference between cast parts & cnc parts!!! Companies look for ways to save money so watch out.

Pay attention to the anodizing as well.

Time will tell what will happen.

[Ken_J]

ZeeBaas. Made down the street from me.

Zebco/Van Staal can keep their China crap.

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by Ken_J

ZeeBaas. Made down the street from me.

Zebco/Van Staal can keep their China crap.

Assembled from parts from where?

[spence]

Exactly...most everything today is made from components sourced around the world.

And while I'm moderately anti-China in theory, it's not fair to label goods from China as "crap". There certainly is a lot of crap for sure, but for some goods they can deliver top shelf quality.

I was astounded when I saw that Ralph Lauren was having hand knit sweaters made in China for his most expensive Purple Label line of clothing. They are a thousand dollars each.

-spence

[fishpoopoo]

China's fairly experienced when it comes to textiles, Spence.

remember where silk came from, thousands of years ago.

[togue]

ZeeBaaS look sweet. Last time I looked I only saw it as a prototype, nice to see them for sale.

Now, if I could only win Mega Bucks I'd buy one or two......

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishpoopoo

China's fairly experienced when it comes to textiles, Spence.

remember where silk came from, thousands of years ago.

Yes and no. Sure they can make silk, but their ability to process cashmere into quality yarn is still lacking. There are very few Chinese houses that can produce quality tailored clothing on the same scale as Italy. Etc, etc...

-spence