President Obama's health care--

[JohnnyD]

I can alleviate much of the costs for health care.

My friends know me as a calloused bastard when it comes to my opinion of people who are a waste of life and have/will never contribute to society. 4 years working 911 in Hartford, CT and 2 years in the Boston area give you an insight to the medical field that many haven't a clue about.

I have two proposals:
First the "If you did it to yourself, I'm not helping you" proposal. People in the hospital due to drug abuse, alcohol abuse, "attempted" suicide, effects from smoking and other self-inflicted "medical" conditions get one shot at assistance. Reform yourself or you get nothing. This way, good money isn't thrown at people who have no ambition of improving their lives.
You smoked for 50 years and now you have lung cancer but no insurance? Sorry, game over.
Instead of getting a job, you sat at home putting back a fifth of vodka every day and now your liver doesn't work, sucks to be you.

This has a two-fold benefit. Decreased costs for hospitals serving the uninsured (thus decreased reimbursements from the feds) and a possible decrease crime for obvious reasons.

Second the "We're not paying for your drugs" policy, mandatory drug testing for every person on Welfare, Medicaid or any other government assistance, be it subsidized diapers for your baby or free prescriptions. Fail two drug tests in a 12-month period - Game Over. Why should I pay to help people that refuse to help themselves?

[RIROCKHOUND]

CB, that is one of the dumbest things I have heard said (I mean that in a nice way...)

What happens when you are 22 and you have a major car accident or cancer or something else catastrophic happens and you don't have the resources to pay your bills... you either go deeply in debt, or you suck of the gov't teet somehow...

almost certain....

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

CB, that is one of the dumbest things I have heard said (I mean that in a nice way...)

What happens when you are 22 and you have a major car accident or cancer or something else catastrophic happens and you don't have the resources to pay your bills... you either go deeply in debt, or you suck of the gov't teet somehow...

almost certain....

Almost certain NOT TO HAPPEN, which is why 22 year olds aren't concerned.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Almost certain NOT TO HAPPEN, which is why 22 year olds aren't concerned.

Aside from there always being a chance for something to happen, the reason 22 year olds aren't concerned is because they don't know better. They've probably been s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g from the parental teet for the last 22 years and don't realize the consequences until something *does* happen.

People in their 20's aren't immune from sickness, disease or stupidity. They statistically take more chances than people older, have a higher level of activity and as such, are at a higher risk of injury.

22 year olds do get sick, they do have injuries and vehicular accidents don't only involve soccer moms or the elderly. Then, if they do get injured or a sickness, good luck getting insurance to cover a pre-existing condition.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Almost certain NOT TO HAPPEN, which is why 22 year olds aren't concerned.

I'd wager there are a lot of 22 year old dying of cancer right now wishing you well in your health.

What's next, kids with leukemia?

-spence

[fishbones]

Why do some of you find it so hard to understand that many younger people decline health insurance? I work in a company with mostly young employees and we offer BCBS for ALL full-time workers. Most of our younger employees decline it because they don't think they're going to need it. The money is more important than the security to them. I know this because I have to ask all employees who decline coverage why they are declining. And when I mention younger employees, I mean the group from about 18 to 30 years old. Maybe it's hard for some of you to believe, but there are a lot of people out there willing to roll the dice when it comes to their health. When you were in your early 20's did you lie awake at night thinking you were going to be in a serious accident or get a serious illness? Probably not.

And Bryan, your car accident scenario sounds great, but most car accidents resulting in injury are covered by auto insurance. Check your policy for a PIP clause. And injuries and in some cases, illnesses caused by work are covered by workers compensation.

Keep in mind also that if someone is enrolled in college and take full-time credits, they are covered under their parents health insurance up to age 24 in some states. These people are naturally going to decline insurance from their employer.

[justplugit]

The problem is we don't know what the real # of people who can't afford health care is.

Obama says it's 47 million, but as mentioned above, other estimates make it around 27 million when taking into account the 43% of people
who can afford it but choose not to buy it.

In addition the Congressional Budget Office said today 10% are illegal aliens.

We need a plan under our current system, the best in the world, to cover our citizens that are unemployed and truly disabled.

To change everything and come up with a new government run plan that will afffect everyone is ridiculous to cover 9% of the population.

[Bronko]

Originally Posted by justplugit

The problem is we don't know what the real # of people who can't afford health care is.

Obama says it's 47 million, but as mentioned above, other estimates make it around 27 million when taking into account the 43% of people
who can afford it but choose not to buy it.

In addition the Congressional Budget Office said today 10% are illegal aliens.

We need a plan under our current system, the best in the world, to cover our citizens that are unemployed and truly disabled.

To change everything and come up with a new government run plan that will afffect everyone is ridiculous to cover 9% of the population.

Well said JPI. But in all reality its the government control of the system they are looking for, not improving the current system.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Why do some of you find it so hard to understand that many younger people decline health insurance? I work in a company with mostly young employees and we offer BCBS for ALL full-time workers. Most of our younger employees decline it because they don't think they're going to need it. The money is more important than the security to them. I know this because I have to ask all employees who decline coverage why they are declining. And when I mention younger employees, I mean the group from about 18 to 30 years old. Maybe it's hard for some of you to believe, but there are a lot of people out there willing to roll the dice when it comes to their health. When you were in your early 20's did you lie awake at night thinking you were going to be in a serious accident or get a serious illness? Probably not.

Everything you said is exactly my point. Younger people don't know any better. One major sickness could medically bankrupt a person and screw them over for the next 10+ years.

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Everything you said is exactly my point. Younger people don't know any better. One major sickness could medically bankrupt a person and screw them over for the next 10+ years.

So, because the young sometimes make stupid decisions, we should take away there ability to choose?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

So, because the young sometimes make stupid decisions, we should take away there ability to choose?

Where exactly did I say anything like that?

Are you so used to bitching about and trying to find something wrong with everything I say that you're completely blind to the fact that I'm against the Health Care Reform that's being proposed?

Edit: If you've paid any attention to my posts over the past few months, you'd know I'm against increased social welfare in all aspects and we should be cutting people off for making stupid decisions instead of rewarding them.

[Raven]

close to 100.000 people are dying each year due to staff infections
contracted in the hospital... from non standardized
health practices as reported on the news tonight....

this is costing us 40 BILLION a year

so any health reform has to include provisions to
prevent this from happening.

[RIJIMMY]

ok - so lets educate people instead of dumping trillions into forcing people to have insurance and forcing me to pay for it.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

ok - so lets educate people instead of dumping trillions into forcing people to have insurance and forcing me to pay for it.

Welcome back, Jim! It's been very quiet in here without you. I hope things are better.

As for your point about educating people, I don't think that's possible. The politicians don't want educated citizens. They want everyone to need the govenment to do their thinking for them.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by fishbones

The politicians don't want educated citizens.

That is why the administration is pushing these programs through at warp speed.

They know if the people had enough time to digest them they wouldn't support them.

They already have government control of the banks and car companies with the big apple being Health Care and the control over 1/6 th of our economy.

Hey, they don't even want the Congress to be educated with proposing1100-1600 page bills with 5 hours to read them before voting.

Meantime polls show 80% of our Citizens are happy with their Health Care.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Welcome back, Jim! It's been very quiet in here without you. I hope things are better.

As for your point about educating people, I don't think that's possible. The politicians don't want educated citizens. They want everyone to need the govenment to do their thinking for them.

nope, no better, still in limbo, just waiting. Thank god for Hospice.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Jim:
thoughts are with you and yours bud...

if you need a night out and want company, give me a shout.

[justplugit]

Take care, Jim. My P+T are with you.

[UserRemoved1]

these assclowns are going to tell you how to raise your kids...SUUUUUUUURE

http://townhall.com/columnists/Chuck...1_in_obamacare

[justplugit]

Had the opportunity to watch the Arlen Specter Town Hall Meeting in Lebanon Pa. and the NH Obama Broadway Show today.

Imho, the PA. citizens took Senator Specter to the wood shed with their
knowledge of the HC Bill. They knew their stuff and stood and exercised their their freedom of speech.
The Senator had admitted previously he needed himself and 10 lawyers to know what was in the Bill.

When the President in NH, was asked how they would pay for the bill he admitted
they were exploring ways. Buy something then figure out how to pay for it?

When he was asked how they would attract new Doctors and Nurses he said
they would help finance education for Primary Care Physicians. No mention
of the additional costs to educate the Specialists that can require another 2-4 years of training or that the HC Bill Sec 1501 pg. 659-670 - Doctors in Residency calls for the government to tell the Physician where he will do his residency.
A lot of fine print hidden in this bill.

Imho today's score:

Gun/Bible clinging, astroturf, status quo, American citizens -1
Elitist intellectuals_______________________________-0

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Imho, the PA. citizens took Senator Specter to the wood shed with their
knowledge of the HC Bill. They knew their stuff and stood and exercised their their freedom of speech.
The Senator had admitted previously he needed himself and 10 lawyers to know what was in the Bill.

When the President in NH, was asked how they would pay for the bill he admitted
they were exploring ways. Buy something then figure out how to pay for it?

When he was asked how they would attract new Doctors and Nurses he said
they would help finance education for Primary Care Physicians. No mention
of the additional costs to educate the Specialists that can require another 2-4 years of training or that the HC Bill Sec 1501 pg. 659-670 - Doctors in Residency calls for the government to tell the Physician where he will do his residency.
A lot of fine print hidden in this bill.

Imho today's score:

Gun/Bible clinging, astroturf, status quo, American citizens -1
Elitist intellectuals_______________________________-0

I didn't see that one, but from the one's I have seen, it's been people just screaming propaganda. Repeating the same paranoid stuff I hear on Conservative radio.

Like Newt and Palin talking about how terrible the "Death Panels" will be, even though there is nothing like that in the bill. But like Newt said, "The bill is 1000 pages long. No one knows what is in it."

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

I didn't see that one, but from the one's I have seen, it's been people just screaming propaganda. Repeating the same paranoid stuff I hear on Conservative radio."

I keep hearing about paranoid Conservative radio. There are a lot of different shows accross the country that I have no knowledge of, but the few that I have access to seem quite reasoned. I hear reasoned, well thought-out objections to the national plan, expressing, I assume, many of the valid points that you allude to (though you have not yet expressed them here, so I don't know if they're the same valid points that you have). Also, the shows that I listen to, have many Liberal callers and they are given time to express their opinions. A couple put Liberal callers on first. One host can be gruff to what he considers stupidity, but the others are quite civil.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I keep hearing about paranoid Conservative radio. There are a lot of different shows accross the country that I have no knowledge of, but the few that I have access to seem quite reasoned. I hear reasoned, well thought-out objections to the national plan, expressing, I assume, many of the valid points that you allude to (though you have not yet expressed them here, so I don't know if they're the same valid points that you have). Also, the shows that I listen to, have many Liberal callers and they are given time to express their opinions. A couple put Liberal callers on first. One host can be gruff to what he considers stupidity, but the others are quite civil.

While they may be reasoned, well thought-out objections (and I have no doubt many are), I have also heard a large number that leave out part of the facts to suit their political agenda or completely misconstrue the facts to get their target audience fired up.

Now, I'm not saying the Dems are innocent of this behavior. They do the same thing. Just about every Dem Congressman/woman I have heard in a radio or tv interview is also guilty of this. The difference is that there is hardly a following for left-wing radio media - and also that they are infrequently referenced as a source.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

I didn't see that one, but from the one's I have seen, it's been people just screaming propaganda. Repeating the same paranoid stuff I hear on Conservative radio.

JD, if you get a chance, listen to one the whole way through. I'm fortunate to have the time.
I believe you will find the majority of the people have genuine concerns about
the HC Bill , Cap and Trade, The Stimulus, as well as concerns for the direction our country is heading.

The news always shows the sensational excerpts of these meetings so it is slanted towards the angry screamers rather then a group of average American Citizens who have done their homework and want answers to the tough questions.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by justplugit

JD, if you get a chance, listen to one the whole way through. I'm fortunate to have the time.
I believe you will find the majority of the people have genuine concerns about
the HC Bill , Cap and Trade, The Stimulus, as well as concerns for the direction our country is heading.

The news always shows the sensational excerpts of these meetings so it is slanted towards the angry screamers rather then a group of average American Citizens who have done their homework and want answers to the tough questions.

I wish I could. Hell, I'd even be interested in attending one if I had the time. I have watched 10-15 minutes here and there on CSPAN. In those 15 minutes, I noticed two things: a majority of people have no idea what they're talking about(on both sides of the argument), and much time was wasted in educating people, and the people that appeared to know what they were talking about were spouting questions that have already been answered 100 times on any of the major news stations.

This is pretty consistent with my previous experiences with "Town Hall" type meetings. My company has provided equipment for a ton of town meetings in towns like Westwood and Mansfield, places where the residents are a part of the legislative process.