Ft.Hood terrorist.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

At some point, someone will actually support the allegation that this was "an act of terrorism." How again was he trying to incite fear and influence government?

Johnny, you don't need to stick to your one narrow definition of terrorism. Although, I would say that walking into a room filled with military personnel and civilians armed to the teeth and opening fire would certainly be a way of "inciting fear". Would you agree?

Anyways, here is a definition of terrorism I found:

Cultural Dictionary

terrorism


Acts of violence committed by groups that view themselves as victimized by some notable historical wrong. Although these groups have no formal connection with governments, they usually have the financial and moral backing of sympathetic governments. Typically, they stage unexpected attacks on civilian targets, including embassies and airliners, with the aim of sowing fear and confusion. Israel has been a frequent target of terrorism, but the United States has increasingly become its main target. (See also September 11 attacks, Osama bin Laden, Hezbollah, and Basque region.)

The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Cite This Source

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Johnny, you don't need to stick to your one narrow definition of terrorism. Although, I would say that walking into a room filled with military personnel and civilians armed to the teeth and opening fire would certainly be a way of "inciting fear". Would you agree?

Anyways, here is a definition of terrorism I found:

Cultural Dictionary

terrorism


Acts of violence committed by groups that view themselves as victimized by some notable historical wrong. Although these groups have no formal connection with governments, they usually have the financial and moral backing of sympathetic governments. Typically, they stage unexpected attacks on civilian targets, including embassies and airliners, with the aim of sowing fear and confusion. Israel has been a frequent target of terrorism, but the United States has increasingly become its main target. (See also September 11 attacks, Osama bin Laden, Hezbollah, and Basque region.)

The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Cite This Source

The guy that opened fire on students at Virginia Tech certainly could be said to have "incited fear." Was he a terrorist?

The difference between your definition and the one I posted is that mine is the *actual* formal definition of terrorism. But, if you'd like to base the incident on yours, it still wasn't a terrorist act.

Thank you for supporting my point.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

The guy that opened fire on students at Virginia Tech certainly could be said to have "incited fear." Was he a terrorist?

The difference between your definition and the one I posted is that mine is the *actual* formal definition of terrorism. But, if you'd like to base the incident on yours, it still wasn't a terrorist act.

Thank you for supporting my point.

Sorry it took some time for me to get back on this JD, I was in vacation for a while. So your definition is the only one that counts? You really know how to change direction to support your own arguments. You don't need to take one piece of a definition and apply it to one specific incident to make a point. It makes you look unintelligent and we know you aren't that.

Read the following article and see if you are still 100% convinced that this wasn't a terrorist act. Pay special attention to the comments made by Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl M. Levin. Also, keep in mind that I never claimed this was an act of terrorism. I only said that there are people who feel it is and there may be reason for them to think it is.

Hasan had intensified contact with cleric - Washington Post- msnbc.com


By the way, thanks for supporting my point.

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Sorry it took some time for me to get back on this JD, I was in vacation for a while. So your definition is the only one that counts? You really know how to change direction to support your own arguments. You don't need to take one piece of a definition and apply it to one specific incident to make a point. It makes you look unintelligent and we know you aren't that.

Read the following article and see if you are still 100% convinced that this wasn't a terrorist act. Pay special attention to the comments made by Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl M. Levin. Also, keep in mind that I never claimed this was an act of terrorism. I only said that there are people who feel it is and there may be reason for them to think it is.

Hasan had intensified contact with cleric - Washington Post- msnbc.com

I'd be curious to see if they have enough evidence to indict the cleric who's apparently been watched as someone who incites violence.

-spence

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Sorry it took some time for me to get back on this JD, I was in vacation for a while. So your definition is the only one that counts?

I'm not sure any definition really counts, unless one is willing to define the reaction to the deserving action.

-spence

[spence]

Originally Posted by basswipe

Where the fvck are all you politically correct a$$holes now?

This man was as anti-American as you can get but PC'ness allowed this a$$hole to become a US SOLDIER!!!HOW?!!!PLEASE EXPLAIN!...If you can.Don't try because you can't defend that fvck on any level.

This stupid radical muslim had an agenda from the beginning...to kill innocent young American serviceman and current policy is responsible for their deaths.

What a very sobering day will be tommorrow.

This post is so wrong

-spence

[basswipe]

Originally Posted by spence

This post is so wrong

-spence

Tell that to my 13 serviceman.Nothing wrong about it.Nothing.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by basswipe

This stupid radical muslim had an agenda from the beginning...to kill innocent young American serviceman and current policy is responsible for their deaths.

He must be a very patient man then...he was born in 1970 and enlisted straight out of high school, that would put him enlisting in 88-89. Since its 2009 that would make him a 20 year man....20 years he plotted this???

[scottw]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

He must be a very patient man then...he was born in 1970 and enlisted straight out of high school, that would put him enlisting in 88-89. Since its 2009 that would make him a 20 year man....20 years he plotted this???

did the 9/11 terrorists plot for 20 years? personally...I think this guy might have a bright future, he could get off on a technicality like Bill Ayers (Spence seems to think he might be somehow innocent, at least till proven guilty) and at that point the likes of Deval Patrick will begin referring to him is a "former" terrorist and he'll be invited to speak as an expert on Islamic/American relations at all of the enlightened institutions of higher learning and the folks that protest will be impuned and called intolerant bigots by the liberal elites....he will be warmly embraced by the liberal geniuses of academia and probably spend many years hailed as an esteemed professor at the University of Chicago where he will be the honored guest at cocktail parties in Obama's old neighborhood....who knows, he may launch the political career and advise closely one of our future presidents...anything is possible in America.....Ted Kennedy bounced back didn't he? he might live out his remaining years in Southern Maine wearing tee shirts with the faces of other famous terrorists and grow pot that Barney Frank will claim to be unable to recognize while pushing for it's legalization....

[RIJIMMY]

Hasan was characterized in meetings as a mediocre student and lazy worker, a matter of concern among the doctors and staff at Walter Reed Army Medical Center and the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, a military medical school in Bethesda, Md., the official said.

Mediocre student! Lazy! Damn, I think I am surrounded at work by terrorists!

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Hasan was characterized in meetings as a mediocre student and lazy worker, a matter of concern among the doctors and staff at Walter Reed Army Medical Center and the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, a military medical school in Bethesda, Md., the official said.

Mediocre student! Lazy! Damn, I think I am surrounded at work by terrorists!

I'm sure there are plenty of people scrambling to determine why this guy wasn't identified as a mental risk in time, or why nothing was really done about it.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

I'm sure there are plenty of people scrambling to determine why this guy wasn't identified as a mental risk in time, or why nothing was really done about it.

-spence

we know why...

“As great a tragedy as this was, it would be a shame if our diversity became a casualty as well,” the Army Chief of Staff also said Sunday.

political correctness, diversity and fear of offending with the hammer of authority coming down on your head as you are labeled intolerant and bigoted... trumps common sense, even in the military

[Fly Rod]

Innocent to proven guilty?

or

Guilty until proven innocent?

JohnnyD, I need help with the above since you say bigger percentage of people do not know as much about this guy being a terrorist or not being one as you do.

Why is the nation picking on this poor depressed Islamic person and his rights? Why couldn't he have gotten on his magic prayer carpet and fly away to his native land?

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

I'm sure there are plenty of people scrambling to determine why this guy wasn't identified as a mental risk in time, or why nothing was really done about it.

-spence

and there are twice as many scrambling to cover it up so it does not reflect negatively on the commander and chief!

[buckman]

The more we learn about this the worse it looks. How does a a mediocre student and lazy worker get promoted to Major? They arrested the Sudbury kid on less then they had on this guy. I know this wasn't terrorism, as I now have seen the light( thanks JD ), however if this guy slipped through the cracks, then how safe are we?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by buckman

The more we learn about this the worse it looks. How does a a mediocre student and lazy worker get promoted to Major? They arrested the Sudbury kid on less then they had on this guy. I know this wasn't terrorism, as I now have seen the light( thanks JD ), however if this guy slipped through the cracks, then how safe are we?

This, I agree with.

I know there will be a barrage after this but... There are many very intelligent, honorable people in the military. However, the 6 people from my graduating class that entered the military were the same people that got in trouble a lot at school, were in the bottom 50% of the class - then I know of at least 2 others that were kicked out of college and sent into the military by their parents. I'm not criticizing, just relaying the numbers from my class.

On the other hand, I know well over 10-20 people I went to college with that went on to be career Officers.

The current state of our military is extremely overstretched. That's not to say there shouldn't be some sort of vetting process, but recruiters are being pressured to bring in numbers or not get promoted - they're trying to fill as many boots as possible. There are bad apples in all fields, combine that with the stresses of combat and putting your life on the line for military people.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by buckman

The more we learn about this the worse it looks. How does a a mediocre student and lazy worker get promoted to Major? They arrested the Sudbury kid on less then they had on this guy. I know this wasn't terrorism, as I now have seen the light( thanks JD ), however if this guy slipped through the cracks, then how safe are we?

Terrorism, especially as a means to influence government policy, may be too general a term to apply to this situation. More specifically, Islamic terrorism might be more apt. According to the overly admired Wikipedia "Islamic terrorism is the common term for violence thought to be rooted in Islamism or misinterpretation of Islam, and is based on claims of defending, or even promoting Islamic culture, society and values in opposition to the political, allegedly imperialistic, and cultural influences of non-Muslims, and the Western World in particular." Based on some of Hasan's previous statements against our being in Iraq and Afghanistan and what should be done to non-Muslims, his act might be construed as a violent defence of Islam. Muslim scholar Zakir Naik said (again in Wikipedia) "Every Muslim should be a terrorist. A terrorist is a person who causes terror. The moment a robber sees a policeman he is terrified. A policeman is a terrorist for the robber. A muslim should be a terrorist for the robber and all other anti-social elements." Hasan seems to have considered America, especially its military, as anti-Muslim-social.

As far as this being a psychological "snap," not only was his act too well prepared to be a snap, but there may be a pathological element to most terrorist acts (certainly anti-social). Afghan pathologist Dr. Yusuf Yadgari (again in Wikipedia) found in a study of 110 suicide bombers that 80% of them had some kind of physical or mental disability. The difference between a terrorist and a mental case may not be that great, and to say that Hasan had a mental problem does not discount him being an Islamist terrorist.

As far as it being an act of mass murder rather than terrorism, most acts of terrorism are acts of mass murder--again, being one doesn't discount the other.

Perhaps an even better name for Hasan would be Jihadist. Especially one of the "lesser Jihad" or Jihad of the sword. This is justified by Muslim Scholars as acting against injustice and oppression (he certainly viewed the U.S. as unjust and oppressive in Iraq and Afghanistan), and as acting against the rejecters of truth after it has become evident to them (as we in the West reject the truth presented to us by Osama bin Laden, Hasan, and Islam).

[RIJIMMY]

so, isnt it sort of a safe bet to say he slipped through the cracks because of pc?
I mean you dont think his background/faith influenced his promotion AT ALL? You dont think the military was more leniant on him because he was muslim? just asking.

[buckman]

The military should have only one job. Kill bad guys that endanger our Liberty and Freedom. They have the brightest and best this country has to offer. They are held back because of politics. Casey and the others are politicians first and commanders second. We worry about how every move we make might offend someone and in the end no move is made. I wish there was a better way of saying it then PC because so many get offended by that.You have to be PC about how you use the term PC.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by buckman

We worry about how every move we make might offend someone and in the end no move is made. I wish there was a better way of saying it then PC because so many get offended by that.You have to be PC about how you use the term PC.

Agreed. I refuse to walk on eggshells for anyone and the military shouldn't have to either when it comes to the safety of our honorable soldiers. Anyone that appears to be even the slightest risk to other soldiers should be removed immediately - whether they're Muslim, female, high ranking or otherwise. But, the military is already understaffed, removing a large number of people that *might* be a risk could have the potential to be more dangerous.

Somehow my thinking that this wasn't a terrorist incident, has been conflated by some into me being PC.

[Swimmer]

[QUOTE=JohnnyD;723466] conflated

Not for nothing John, but that is a good word.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

conflated

Not for nothing John, but that is a good word.

Haha... thank you.