Finishing Lure Shop/Getting Started with Pencils

[ProfessorM]

I am in the opposite camp. I only turn with a duplicator. I make my patterns first then I turn them. I adjust my patterns to what I want the plug to look like. I have never turned a plug with hand tools in my life. I got plenty of hand tools just never interested me to use them. I also have been running lathes for 30 yeas so I don't find anything really fun about turning. I just want it off the lathe and on to the other, fun, aspects. Just want to let you know there are many ways to make plugs and I am glad to hear many find turning to be fun. Keep at it and always keep it fun.

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Get a duplicator later, learn how to turn by hand first! It helps to know how to turn by hand and you will need to turn by hand to make your master bodies for templates. Don't try to skip on the learning curve.

Thanks, I agree -- I think I'm going to keep it in the box for now.

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by numbskull

A skew only cuts with the bottom half of it's width, and only a 1/16" section of the edge is in touch with the wood as it cuts no matter how narrow or wide the blade. The wider tool gives you more control as you swing/lift the handle. 3/4" is OK, but wider is better unless you are doing fine detail work (which plugs don't require).

The other VERY important thing about skews, and something that took me years to realize/find out, is that they need to be sharpened with a flat bevel.......not hollow ground on a wheel and then given a secondary bevel like most other tools. The skew is held steady by three points of contact; the tool rest, the edge, and the bevel which rides on the work behind the cut. Get that geometry wrong and spectacular stuff happens......very, very quickly (hence the face mask).

Duplicators require patterns. Patterns take time to make so once you make one you tend to get locked into that shape. When you turn freehand you will find that the shape you start with often evolves as you go. Evolution of what you are making leaves opportunity for improvement and learning. Once you have a shape you are sure you like then duplicators are fine and take a lot of the tedium out of turning multiples.

This is great information, numbskull -- I appreciate it.

And thanks to everyone for all the advice and viewpoints so far. I'm really digging the generosity on this site.

I'm cutting out of work to go to a specialty woodstore a few miles away to pick-up some pine and maybe some basswood. I'm still a couple weeks away from turning, but I wanted to take a look. My friend buys his wood here -- he's shopped the entire area for the best prices.

I don't suppose you can get any pine of appropriate quality at one of the box stores(?) My friend says most of their stock isn't clean enough for plug building.

Couple other things I've been told that I want to put out there for opinions:

• Don't bother trying poplar for lures (splits?)
• Maple is more likely to split than birch when I start turning sinking needles.
• Don't take anyone's opinion of lure building as gospel - experiment. BUT, assume probably all safety warnings and cautionary tales come from experience.

[ProfessorM]

I agree, great insight by the good Dr. Maybe I may go out and buy a new lathe and put those tools to good use this year. Been contemplating it for several years.

[Charleston]

A bunch of guys use poplar for plugs.

[mfm22]

Eric shop sounds like its going to be winner .
I've got similar size sqft 12x12 '
you have some great advice in this thread

In my shop I find mobile base a big plus . I keep band saw on one and table saw on one . When they are need simply roll into open area and use -hook up vac hose and go .. when done reverse saves lots of space.
I use 3 benches .1 for lathe and drill press, one for assembly and another for misc and holding spray booth when painting .My table saw doubles for 4 bench when its against the wall.masonite on top=bench
don't forget to look up -use ceiling to hold racks hang plugs to dry
I have unfinished ceiling so floor joists double for cubbys ...store wood inbetween etc
Good luck and stay safe! if your not sure or it dosn't feel right stop think it out or give these guys a shout

[numbskull]

I'd think buying turning stock from a wood working store would be very expensive unless you are looking for small pieces of exotics.
Check out hardwood lumber stores for wood if you have access to a tablesaw. Otherwise, #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& and M&D's also have plug wood already cut to size (you can buy a lot of wood for the price of a tablesaw)
Maple needles are not likely to split (too narrow). Birch is fine (habs and gibbs used it), but open grained and a little rougher finished. Soft maple is a good wood to use for sinking plugs.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Charleston

A bunch of guys use poplar for plugs.

Yeah, I think it gets a bad rap because it is prone to rot. But plugs don't rot and properly sealed poplar has worked for me in the past. I've even made bluefish stuff out of fir/spruce 2x4's.

[Rockfish9]

I only own one set of calipers, instead, I've opted to make a set of gauges from wire, I've made them from left over peices of heavy welders wire, I make them in the shape of a U and label each size with painters tape( I also have a set of "L" shaped ones for measuring common distances), I put them in a home made holder with holes drilled every 1/4", they are graduated from 1/4" to 2" in 1/4 fractions, with exception to some sizes (like 5/8) that I commonly use...

As far as dupe versus hand turning... I split the duty pretty much down the middle...Having two lathes helps alot...

[numbskull]

There is a helpful book by an Englishman, F Pain, called "The Practical Wood Turner". I don't know if it is still available, but it was paperback and cost about $6 when I bought it. Written by a guy who spent his life turning wood for a living. Tons of useful tips and explanations in there. Great read for anyone interested in turning without a duplicator.

Checked amazon. Plenty of used paperback versions for cheap. It is not anything you'd collect so don't worry if it is a beater. Its value is all in its words.

[mfm22]

Eric I'm cutting some blanks in the morning ayc 1 1/2 x 1 1/2
send me mail addy I' send a few blanks 7" long ?
you can see how that works ..find it easier to cut than red cedar

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

I am in the opposite camp. I only turn with a duplicator. I make my patterns first then I turn them. I adjust my patterns to what I want the plug to look like. I have never turned a plug with hand tools in my life. I got plenty of hand tools just never interested me to use them. I also have been running lathes for 30 yeas so I don't find anything really fun about turning. I just want it off the lathe and on to the other, fun, aspects. Just want to let you know there are many ways to make plugs and I am glad to hear many find turning to be fun. Keep at it and always keep it fun.

What I do now if I want to duplicate a plug is take it into work, put it on the Copier then take the paper copy and cut out a stencil, then transfer that to a templet for the duplicator. Works pretty pissah and i don't have to rewire an original after I mount it on the Duplicator

[ProfessorM]

a very handy tool is the dial caliper

[numbskull]

Is that what you measure fish with, Paul?

[WoodyCT]

Eric,
DO NOT waste your money on anything resembling good wood! Yet. You have a mountain of shavings to make from cheap pine from Homies or Lowsy before you try the good stuff.

As I have fairly recently learned, shaping a nice plug is the easy part. There are many many ways to screw up between shaping and fishing the plug, and they all must be figured out before you can expect to go fishing with your own plugs.

Take your time and learn as you go. Experience is the best teacher.

Good luck,
Jon

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by WoodyCT

Eric,
DO NOT waste your money on anything resembling good wood! Yet. You have a mountain of shavings to make from cheap pine from Homies or Lowsy before you try the good stuff.

As I have fairly recently learned, shaping a nice plug is the easy part. There are many many ways to screw up between shaping and fishing the plug, and they all must be figured out before you can expect to go fishing with your own plugs.

Take your time and learn as you go. Experience is the best teacher.

Good luck,
Jon

Thanks, Jon -- good advice.

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

What I do now if I want to duplicate a plug is take it into work, put it on the Copier then take the paper copy and cut out a stencil, then transfer that to a templet for the duplicator. Works pretty pissah and i don't have to rewire an original after I mount it on the Duplicator

That's a neat trick.

[pbadad]

Don't forget all the good wood you find at the foot of someones driveway. I started that way and continue to look for future "supplies". Someones junk is another person's gold.

[Eric Roach]

I've read about this, but I'm not sure how this works. Do most of you through-drill with the lathe?

[ProfessorM]

I do. Very rarely miss connecting each side with this method. I just did 30 , 8" long , .400 dia. maple needles and only lost 1. Thin maple needles are the measuring stick as far as I'm concerned. If you can do those you can do anything. If it is a danny or a metal lip swimmer of some kind i will only drill from the ass end and stop at where the front belly hook hole will fall. I then hydro them, drill belly hook holes, I then cut lip slot, lay the lip in, mark where the lip hole will go and hand drill that hole to meet the front belly hole, thus connecting the whole shabang for a thru wire.

[Charleston]

Hey Roach, Glad the shop is coming along. FWIW doing your through drilling on the lathe is spot on! I don't make many plugs but I drill them all on the lathe.
Let me know if I can be of help as you venture into this thing we call "plug building"

[WoodyCT]

A couple things I learned- the hard and frustrating way:

DO NOT use a brad point bit to through drill. Use a standard bit, or better yet, one meant for end grain.

You don't need a really long bit, as you will drill in from each end and meet in the middle. Use a hand drill with a long bit to finish if your lathe drilling bit is too short to make it halfway through the plug- very likely with pencils and needles.

Go SLOW. Push the plug onto the bit about a 1/4-1/2", back it out to clear the chips, go another 1/4-1/2", clear chips....

Good luck young grasshoppa

[numbskull]

Try both. I find the drill press easier. Lots of threads on through drilling.

[Grapenuts]

No drilling for me anymore..I got two pet termites..one male one female....I dangle the female in front of the plugs nose on a string, then put the male on the tail of the plug an say "go get her butch"go upstairs an have a cup of coffee,come back and their maken kids...perfect straight wire hole evey time.

E.R......maybe to late now,but u didn't say what the finished walls were going to be inside, you live in the land of rough sawn pine..that wood be the ticket as u'd not have any problems in finding any place to screw into...if u were headed for rock the best thing before it goes on wood be to use 1/2" ply on the walls before putting up the rock..then any where u needed to screw into it wood b solid...no hunting for studds an hoping one was there.

[EricW]

Originally Posted by WoodyCT

A couple things I learned- the hard and frustrating way:

DO NOT use a brad point bit to through drill. Use a standard bit, or better yet, one meant for end grain.


Good luck young grasshoppa

Have you had issues using brad point bits?
I have actually found them to be much more accurate in my thru drilling, and give the best results. I use them because they have
the little point on the end which for me anyway is much easier to
pinpoint the center mark on the plug blank and go straight down.
I currently use one of my drill presses to drill and and meet up with a long bit in a hand drill.
One tip I can share which has helped me is on my first "plunge" of the drill press I only go about 2 millimeters. I have found that this somehow sets the hole if you know what I mean. I have tried going a deeper like a 1/2 to 1 inch and sometimes you can notice the drill bit grab some grain and look like it may go off. For some reason, I have much better success on subsequent plunges when I make that first hole about 2 mm deep.

I recently acquired a 9" metal lathe and am planning on getting it set up to do some experimenting with thru drilling on it. I was able to do a couple test blanks with some good results.

[WoodyCT]

I had nothing but bad luck with brad points, so I researched them and found that the side spurs were the problem. They tend to follow the grain and veer off course. The point in the center is good, and bits designed to drill end grain have some sort of point in the center.

Since ditching the brads and going to a Morris Tools end grain bit I haven't wrecked a plug while through drilling. Even 8+"ers.

[pbadad]

Woody what's different about the end grain bit? Where did you get it?

[numbskull]

They are brad point bits with no spurs. Fuller drill (and presumably Morris Tools) will grind them on any size drill you want. It is what the drill companies recommend for end grain.

Check out the step drills while you are at it. Expensive but very useful for enlarging through holes concentrically to fit belly weights.

[BigFish]

Never a problem with brad points? Standard bits wander too much...much more than brad point bits.

[Mr. Krinkle]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Never a problem with brad points? Standard bits wander too much...much more than brad point bits.

I've had problems with both. I use a lathe, but have used a drill press also and have messed up many a blank. It's all trial and error. Gotta love it! I use a short bit in the lathe and make the connection with a 10" bit in my hand drill. When using the hand drill I've found that going slow and backing out is the key, especially with hard woods (Maple, Mahogany).