Increase in commercial quota for next year

[JakeF]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

And do not give me the crap that the recreational fishermen bring in dollars to motels, restauarants, etc:

Charter boats do the same thing, they bring in monies to motels, restaurants etc. too, guess what, charter boats are commercial fishing, they receive money.

But the take of charter and party boats is NOT counted toward the commercial quota. They are considered recreational by the ASMFC, and their take is counted as recreational take. In the eyes of the ASMFC, charter & party boats are merely providing transportation. The fishing is done by recreation fishermen and the fish are not sold to a fish market, therefore the insane amount of fish taken each year by charter & party boats goes on the rec tab.

Let's change this as well.

[RIJIMMY]

If you feel that the striped bass population is in trouble - Conservation is in YOUR hands. Release the fish that you are not taking to eat and dont participate in kill tournaments.
Look in the mirror before looking elsewhere

[Mr. Sandman]

I think the bass is in a lot more trouble (on several fronts than the scientists think.

Personally I have given this a lot of thought and my own view is that we should

a) reduce rec to 1 fish (any length...simple effective, min kill)
b) no comm activity.
c) push hard to replenish bait stocks coast-wide.

I really think this would rebuild the fishery and maintain the economic strength that rec fishing produces.

Basically I am in support of game-fish status because it basically does this minimal fuss, granted game fish does nothing to improve bait stocks but at least it addresses a and b.

[JakeF]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

If you feel that the striped bass population is in trouble - Conservation is in YOUR hands. Release the fish that you are not taking to eat and dont participate in kill tournaments.
Look in the mirror before looking elsewhere

Right on... Where's that 'Like' button

But, when you're done looking in the mirror, then help educate others, and stand up for what you believe in.

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by tattoobob

I find it hard to believe that someone catches 2 keepers every time he goes fishing

.

[JohnR]

Yes, this has been covered once or twice. Short version is we can continue to yell at each other and watch a fishery get mismanaged (and / or sucked up in other battles), or we can all step up to the plate and take a meaningful cut. Otherwise we will be continuing to use the process of urination to determine wind direction and velocity.

We can continue to argue over WHO gets to the keep the fish OR we can start to plan and discuss HOW to save the fish.

[DZ]

This will be an interesting vote. In New England states "Overwhelming" public comment was against a commercial increase. Will they listen? If not I anticipate more support to "legislate" changes to striped bass management. Especially now that recs will be licensed. Just my opinion.

DZ

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

If you feel that the striped bass population is in trouble - Conservation is in YOUR hands. Release the fish that you are not taking to eat and dont participate in kill tournaments.
Look in the mirror before looking elsewhere

...and don't each large scale commercially raised chicken. It isn't just runoff from dairies in PA and NY, it is the disaster of a waste problem from the chicken houses in the bay states.

as far as the bait goes... I saw more herring this spring than in 10 years in my local river. There has been tons of adult bunker in W. LI sound over the last few years. Last night I caught schoolie after schoolie in spot loaded with bait. Not that I think the bait isn't a problem.



What if the striper stocks need to be carefully culled to allow for fewer fish that are bigger and healthier? take some pressure off the herring and other bait. Or reduce competition amongst stripers.

The problem is too complicated for us mere mortals.

[Frankiesurf]

One thing about charters is that they can offer a C&R trip as opposed to everyone limiting out. All they have to do is mention it and maybe a quick explanation of why C&R is a good idea. They wouldn't have to force it down the fares throats or anything. I would bet there would be a decent response. Even one fare a year taking that option is a plus.

I have spoken to a few captains about this and the majority make no mention. Some do occasionally. The problem is that if they don't then they are pretty much looking short term. If the health of the fishery dictates the health of the business you would think a future outlook should have been in the business plan to begin with.


The problem with educating other fishermen about this is that the ones that are all over the boards are not the ones to preach to. It is the guys on the beach that don't bother with the internet or those new to the sport. The guys on here and every other site out there has seen and heard these stories already.

The fishermen you see on the beach that have short bass or two or more bass most likely know the rules and they don't care. You can tell by the way they run back to the truck each time they catch a bass or scurry away when the DEC officer comes by. Educating these people is important but they probably don't really care.

The newcomers to the sport should learn all of this from the get go. Give them the whole story and let them make up their mind. I am pretty sure that most rec guys here and all comm guys agree the recs should be taking less fish. There is a level ground starting point. After that is done we will fight over the newbies about gamefish status.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by zimmy

What if the striper stocks need to be carefully culled to allow for fewer fish that are bigger and healthier? take some pressure off the herring and other bait. Or reduce competition amongst stripers.

The problem is too complicated for us mere mortals.

Man, how did the striper stocks ever manage to exist before man came around to "carefully cull" them out?

I hear people mention nonsense like this a lot. "We need to kill more stripers so the bait can rebound." Nature was fine for millions of years before we came around and effed with it and it'll be fine again in another million years when we're extinct.

[clambelly]

who here would be in support of an outright ban on all fishing for stripers for 5 years? no one targets them.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by clambelly

who here would be in support of an outright ban on all fishing for stripers for 5 years? no one targets them.

I'd be in favor of a strict catch and release fishery. No take at all.

The things are so packed with PCBs and mercury that we shouldn't be eating them anyway.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by clambelly

who here would be in support of an outright ban on all fishing for stripers for 5 years? no one targets them.

That's a completely unrealistic notion.

[maddmatt]

Originally Posted by piemma

All good points but I think it was Afterhours who said it best. Give the bass gamefish status and make the limit 1 fish a day. I believe in the 36" or 34" and saw it work in the 80s and early 90s.

In any event, just to reiterate:

Game fish status
No commercial season ....ever
1 fish a day for the recs 34 or 36".

I read a post on the "other" site where this guys bragged that he fishes almost everyday and takes his limit of fish everyday. So if it's 100 days and he takes 2 fish a day then he kills 200 28"+ fish every year. What the hell does he do with that many fish? The man is an idiot and should be banned from this sport.

One other point. I know that there are many guys on this site that are comm. I did it myself in the 70s but it was gas money and bait money and equipment money. It wasn't "make a living money". I have no problem with guys who make a living on the water. I just think the Striped Bass is too valuable of a resource to wantonly slaughtered for commercial or even recreational reasons.

During the moritorium, we that were hard core kept fishing even though we could not keep anything. If you do this thing of ours because you love it, then it doesn't matter if you kill anything. I personally caught well over 200 legal Bass this year. I killed exactly 2 fish that were gut hooked.

We need to apply some sanity or it will be the 80s all over again.

boat or surf???

[maddmatt]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

If you feel that the striped bass population is in trouble - Conservation is in YOUR hands. Release the fish that you are not taking to eat and dont participate in kill tournaments.
Look in the mirror before looking elsewhere

oooooohhhhh, good one!!

[fatcow]

I say RAISE it. CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIng

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by fatcow

I say RAISE it. CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIng

Until the stock crashes again, and no cha-ching for years or ever.
that's the mentality that drove it into the ground the last time.

fail.

[fatcow]

Don't blame the new school blame the old school
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[SAUERKRAUT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Recreational fishermen kill a boatload more fish than commercial guys do. WE ARE THE PROBLEM!!!!!! That being said, there is no way we should allow a rise in the commercial take. Both sides should lower their limits

A personal friend of mine, Steve Howell is a trailer boat captain: Doubled Up Charters. He commercial fishes stripers in season; in fact, I host him with a bed and a shower whenever he needs as he is from Paxton. (I do this despite the fact I am opposed to the entire entity of a striped bass commercial fishery). His "take" for the season was: 37 stripers that went OVER 40 pounds! VERY FEW of these, and many other fish harvested by him were killed and recorded during the commercial season.

Tell me: Isn't the so-called Recreational Fisherman killing the fish really just the same Commercial Fisherman outside the Commercial Season?

Very very few so-called Recreational Fishermen have the expertise or the opportunity that Capt. Steve does. This is not a Recreational Fisherman! There are many many like him, and they need to be brought out from hiding.

[robc22]

Originally Posted by SAUERKRAUT

A personal friend of mine, Steve Howell is a trailer boat captain: Doubled Up Charters. He commercial fishes stripers in season; in fact, I host him with a bed and a shower whenever he needs as he is from Paxton. (I do this despite the fact I am opposed to the entire entity of a striped bass commercial fishery). His "take" for the season was: 37 stripers that went OVER 40 pounds! VERY FEW of these, and many other fish harvested by him were killed and recorded during the commercial season.

Tell me: Isn't the so-called Recreational Fisherman killing the fish really just the same Commercial Fisherman outside the Commercial Season?

Very very few so-called Recreational Fishermen have the expertise or the opportunity that Capt. Steve does. This is not a Recreational Fisherman! There are many many like him, and they need to be brought out from hiding.

bought out from hiding!?!? like they are public servants on the take!?!? they are just good bass fishermen,period. I find your post disturbing.....there's a million pound quota in ma......that quota gets filled by folks that are good at catching bass, thats all.....I grew up on the cape......you guys love to talk about rec. vs comm......I'm a fisherman period. sometimes I sell the fish, sometimes I eat the fish and sometimes I let the fish go.......I'm guessing your "buddy" capt. steve is the same way...........

[BassDawg]

Originally Posted by robc22

bought out from hiding!?!? like they are public servants on the take!?!? they are just good bass fishermen,period. I find your post disturbing.....there's a million pound quota in ma......that quota gets filled by folks that are good at catching bass, thats all.....I grew up on the cape......you guys love to talk about rec. vs comm......I'm a fisherman period. sometimes I sell the fish, sometimes I eat the fish and sometimes I let the fish go.......I'm guessing your "buddy" capt. steve is the same way...........

hey rob~~

i believe that SRKT is referring to skewed/inaccurate commercial ###'s with respect to the coming increase in their Commercial Quota for 2011.

if the numbers are OFF and we already KNOW that they can be manipulated, then how is the ASMFC supposed to make legitimate regulation? AND i am certain that this has been happening for decades!!

my view is to reduce the take for BOTH! 1 @ 36" for us, ??? millions ##'s less for them. ALSO, we must Fix the Forage!! leave the bunker alone for three yrs!! just my thoughts,,,,,,,,,,

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Man, how did the striper stocks ever manage to exist before man came around to "carefully cull" them out?

I hear people mention nonsense like this a lot. "We need to kill more stripers so the bait can rebound." Nature was fine for millions of years before we came around and effed with it and it'll be fine again in another million years when we're extinct.

I am not saying this is what needs to happen, just asking the question. As far as nonsense, I am not sure about that.

You ask how striper stocks managed to survive before humans... Stripers increase , bait decreases; stripers decrease, bait increases. Fewer stripers= more bait.More stripers less bait.

Nature was fine before we effed it up is true. I am not sure how that is related to the current state of fisheries, as we aren't absent from nature in the present. We (humans) harvest eels, crabs, herring, bunker, macks, lobsters, flounder etc. Our activities also make the ecosystem less habitable. Striper numbers increased to record numbers. ALL of the factors have to be considered.

People say fix the bait, which I agree with. It isn't simple. The intent of the points I made was to show there are many possible aspects to management.

JD- when you say "nonsense" do you mean you completely dismiss the idea that a reduced striper population would increase the amount of organisms preyed on by stripers? That seems hard to substantiate.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by zimmy

JD- when you say "nonsense" do you mean you completely dismiss the idea that a reduced striper population would increase the amount of organisms preyed on by stripers? That seems hard to substantiate.

When I say "nonsense", it's with regards to the whole concept of "kill more bass so the bait fish can come back" being beneficial to any fishery. Like I said before, nature did a pretty good job finding an equilibrium in the millions of years before man. I don't agree with your idea that "stripers increase, bait decreases; stripers decrease, bait increases". There are far too many factors.

Maybe instead of culling out bass to help increase the bait population we get rid of indiscriminate fishing methods like the trawlers and get stop companies like Omega Protein form decimating full populations of the bait.

[zimmy]

JD- I think we are probably exactly on the same page. I don't think we should kill more bass either. I would like to see a 1 fish limit and reduced commercial harvest. As far as what the rec. size limit should be... I do think there is something to a slot limit which will target the take to certain ages of the population and increased male mortality, decreased female mortality, and decreased competition within certain age classes. What we know about populations is that more prey and less competition leads to healthier individuals and populations as a whole. The population in the Chesapeake is certainly exposed to terrible conditions. A smaller, but stronger and healthier population may be better able to thrive and prevent the collapse that seems imminent. It could lead to more big fish in the end. The scrawny, weak, diseased population at present seems just ripe for collapse. These aren't my personal ideas, but I have heard the arguments and I can't dismiss them.

The best evidence for 1 @36" is that it worked last time. I just wonder if it worked because the population dynamics were so different. There were hardly any fish around and few people fishing. Is it the best way with the current state of the striper population? I don't know.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by zimmy

The population in the Chesapeake is certainly exposed to terrible conditions. A smaller, but stronger and healthier population may be better able to thrive and prevent the collapse that seems imminent. It could lead to more big fish in the end. The scrawny, weak, diseased population at present seems just ripe for collapse. These aren't my personal ideas, but I have heard the arguments and I can't dismiss them.

Did you attend the ASMFC hearings? YOY numbers have been terrible relative to the number of spawning females. Up to 70% of the bass in the Chesapeake could potentially be infected with myco with an estimated lifespan of 5 years after infection.

The nice thing about nature is that only the strong survive. Without humans messing around, an equilibrium is always found. The weak die out and the strong get stronger.

[robc22]

Originally Posted by BassDawg

hey rob~~

i believe that SRKT is referring to skewed/inaccurate commercial ###'s with respect to the coming increase in their Commercial Quota for 2011.

if the numbers are OFF and we already KNOW that they can be manipulated, then how is the ASMFC supposed to make legitimate regulation? AND i am certain that this has been happening for decades!!

my view is to reduce the take for BOTH! 1 @ 36" for us, ??? millions ##'s less for them. ALSO, we must Fix the Forage!! leave the bunker alone for three yrs!! just my thoughts,,,,,,,,,,

I don't believe those numbers to be off and howv would one manage such a event with a fishery thats eyeballed by millions of people and citizens........

[stiff tip]

imo....... most of u rec fisherman would not last a wk fishing for money. your the greatest when the bites on ,but hows your skills when its off ???? will u fish from dusk to dawn every day 10 ,12 hrs? trust me it aint e-z ,,,b glad if u have a real job.fishing wont make u rich . it will make u feel good and free but not rich.as i c it the rec fisherman KILLS 10 times the bass as the comm , if u flag wavering dopes would relize that you could help .stop pointing the finger of guilt ,, just look in a mirror ... chesse bay cond are a huge prob.thats it i,m done stop your crying its a long winter..

[BassDawg]

Originally Posted by stiff tip

imo....... most of u rec fisherman would not last a wk fishing for money. your the greatest when the bites on ,but hows your skills when its off ???? will u fish from dusk to dawn every day 10 ,12 hrs? trust me it aint e-z ,,,b glad if u have a real job.fishing wont make u rich . it will make u feel good and free but not rich.as i c it the rec fisherman KILLS 10 times the bass as the comm , if u flag wavering dopes would relize that you could help .stop pointing the finger of guilt ,, just look in a mirror ... chesse bay cond are a huge prob.thats it i,m done stop your crying its a long winter..

are YOU SHEETIN', ME??

i would embrace the opportunity to fish for a living~~~
if there was a C&R Pro Circuit for Stripers!!



and nobody is pointing a finger of guilt solely at anybody,
most of us are saying that there needs to be a reduction for BOTH!!

and i think the "crying" to which you are referring is FOR the AC Menhaden, who sadly have no voice!
why not use dogfish for bug bait? and leave the pogies alone, let them rebound for 3 yrs!!

i would LOVE to sea the return of The Great Silver Balls, INSHORE!!!
SUUUUX, that i can only read about that phenomena that used to be the norm. and, AGREED, we as a peoples/terrible stewards have done MUCH to destroy our beloved species' habitat.

certainly there are sacrifices to be made ACROSS the BOARD!! do you suppose that we'll EVER get Purdue, the CClubs along the Hudson, and the rest of the landlubbing polluters to admit ~much more DO anything~ that they are a huge part of the equation??

i appreciate your angle Stifftip, it is important that we hear ALL sides.

[goosefish]

I feel like a child now.

[JakeF]

I have word from an inside source that the ASMFC Management Board has voted in today's meeting AGAINST increasing the coastal Commercial Striped Bass Quota. Just FYI....