TWO BASS FOR RI CHARTER AND PARTY BOATS?

[Slipknot]

It's about the resource
conservation
and sacrifice
all should be on the same rule, just because the marine fisheries so called managers came up with this option, doesn't make it the correct one.
Customers will still hire boats so their group can go out for a day, excuses about needing 2 fish I am not buying that, I call bull. It is simply greed if you ask me. They have all gotten used to the 2 fish per day per angler thing for so many years. Go to one for all and the population of bass might not be in so much trouble. See how it goes in 3 years. IMO if they cave to this 2 fish thing for charters and give the longer length limit, it goes against conservation and puts the responsibility on those who will really conserve bass.

And Afterhours is 100 percent right.
I also agree with DZ
Let's get that list and let it be known which businesses really wish to conserve the bass and support them not the others.
Something should have been done LAST year but it was not.

There used to be Atlantic Salmon in good numbers from shore along with cod and other fish, gee I wonder what happened to all those fish

[afterhours]

Originally Posted by buckman

What I am saying is, if in the end , the targeted reduction is obtained ,then why would it really matter if the charterboats ,in order to maintain their businesses, be allowed to keep two per client? Is this about the health of the bass biomass or about tit for tat. I don't get to keep two so no one should .....
Sounds pretty damn immature to me
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

what I'm saying is that no one should get 2 period, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.....and very good for the fish I may be a bit immature but in this case, I take this chit very seriously.

[bobber]

Originally Posted by buckman

What I am saying is, if in the end , the targeted reduction is obtained ,then why would it really matter if the charterboats ,in order to maintain their businesses, be allowed to keep two per client? Is this about the health of the bass biomass or about tit for tat. I don't get to keep two so no one should .....
Sounds pretty damn immature to me
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

the problem is that we are eroding the likelihood that the regs will actually attain the necessary reduction with every stinkin' loophole that gets added in to the mix. and by the time anything gets re-evaluated to see how the regs have worked, it'll be YEARS TOO LATE (kinda like this whole friggin mess is already.....)
I'm sympathetic to the challenge that headboats face, but this is the bed we've made for ourselves- now EVERYBODY has to adapt to the changes that are needed


or go extinct

[stripermaineiac]

Greed. That's always been the problem.Commercial is comercial no matter how you look at it.The charters complain about all the wasted fish that the charters don't want to make themselves sound good.Till it comes to shack money.
We always have been our own worst enemy and that will never change. GREED>GREED>GREED. Gamefish is the only way to shut down the greed,or catch n release.We went to circle hook for bait. South of us it's treble hook catch ,kill then release.
Cod fish is heading towards protected in a few yrs. Stripers aren,t far behind. SAD.

[ivanputski]

This is what happens when you try to make everyone happy instead of doing whats right...


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[stripermaineiac]

1 fish or catch n release. It never changes no matter how bad things get. we can't be trusted to do what's right no matter what. There's always someone trying to pad their own nest at the expense of the fish and everyone trying to preserve whats there so we have future fishing.
Don's right . we need a list of those working against the general good and post it.Let their actions show who they are. I for one am gettin tired of those that misrepresent themselves as preservation types then when it's time to make posetive changes they want a special limits for their small group.

[Dave Peros]

First off, let me admit up front that I prefer to call myself a "fishing guide" rather than a "charter captain" because my approach to taking folks out is to educate them about fishing and emphasize catch-and-release. I would say of the 125 to 150 trips I take a year, about six to ten fish are kept overall. I might practice strictly catch and release myself when fishing, but there is no place on my boat for browbeating an angler who wants to take a single fish for the table - and hopefully not an exceptionally large female fish that is far more important live than dead.
When I went into business, I elected to go small in terms of my boat and emphasize light tackle casting and fly fishing catch-and-release because I believed that would be a sustainable approach. It is really aggravating to listen to charter captains, who through their "keep the max each and every trip" have contributed to the stock problems we are facing, whine about needing more dead fish to stay in business. I have had some heated discussions with charter captains I know about the double dip of chartering and commercial fishing on the same day and have often wondered what everyone's take is on this being a legal activity in Massachusetts. I make a living through guiding and certainly not a killing, but I have never been able to figure out the logic of captains who say that being able to make an additional buck on commercial days by selling excess fish is necessary, when they are already picking up a pay check for a charter!
It is like "deja vu all over again" when I listen to charter captains, whether it is arguing that there are still plenty of bass out there, they have moved, they are in the EEZ, etc., or that they deserve a bigger share because they are in the business of catching fish. I see their "blindness" mirrored in the complaints offered up by the ground fish fleet that couldn't see beyond the tip of their noses and the dollars in their wallets and now have the audacity to try and blame others for their greed or say there is no problem because they have managed to find a limited aggregation of fish in a small geographical area when there should be fish everywhere. I will agree that the fisheries' management and science has been woefully inadequate and contributed to the problem, but ultimately fishermen are guilty of creating their own messes. We like to romanticize the commercial and charter fisherman, but doing so let's too many of them off the hook for painting themselves in a corner.
I am fortunate to fish each year with anglers who share my values and hopefully will return if they are happy with the "job" I am doing, but if my business is negatively impacted by the greed and short sighted approach of other charter captains, so-called "commercial" striped bass anglers in Massachusetts, and recreational anglers who feel it is OK to kill their limit each and every time they fish, be assured that the government won't be coming to bail me out as they have done with the commercial ground fish fleet. Tackle shops, tackle manufacturers, and other businesses that will suffer if folks can't come and enjoy a healthy, vibrant fishery. But here we are with certain groups of charter captains asking for a "bail out" that isn't an option for anglers who aren't responsible for the mess we are in.
What's saddest for me is to see some of the newer generation of captains here on the Cape posting glory photos on their websites of piles of dead bass, just as it was done in the past. Never in my wildest imagination did I believe we would have made it to this point with striped bass after having gone through the collapse that we saw just three decades ago. I don't hear as well as I once did and I wonder if it is getting worse by the day when I actually hear the same kind of statements that were bandied about during the last collapse.
But here we are again with some folks asking for special dispensation so they can kill more fish and government institutions are doing everything to accommodate them through games such as "conservation equivalency", while casting a blind eye towards what their own technical committee and studies are showing. In the end, I guess it's true what they say: "Insanity is repeating the same actions and expecting different results."

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Dave Peros

First off, let me admit up front that I prefer to call myself a "fishing guide" rather than a "charter captain" because my approach to taking folks out is to educate them about fishing and emphasize catch-and-release. I would say of the 125 to 150 trips I take a year, about six to ten fish are kept overall. I might practice strictly catch and release myself when fishing, but there is no place on my boat for browbeating an angler who wants to take a single fish for the table - and hopefully not an exceptionally large female fish that is far more important live than dead.
When I went into business, I elected to go small in terms of my boat and emphasize light tackle casting and fly fishing catch-and-release because I believed that would be a sustainable approach. It is really aggravating to listen to charter captains, who through their "keep the max each and every trip" have contributed to the stock problems we are facing, whine about needing more dead fish to stay in business. I have had some heated discussions with charter captains I know about the double dip of chartering and commercial fishing on the same day and have often wondered what everyone's take is on this being a legal activity in Massachusetts. I make a living through guiding and certainly not a killing, but I have never been able to figure out the logic of captains who say that being able to make an additional buck on commercial days by selling excess fish is necessary, when they are already picking up a pay check for a charter!
It is like "deja vu all over again" when I listen to charter captains, whether it is arguing that there are still plenty of bass out there, they have moved, they are in the EEZ, etc., or that they deserve a bigger share because they are in the business of catching fish. I see their "blindness" mirrored in the complaints offered up by the ground fish fleet that couldn't see beyond the tip of their noses and the dollars in their wallets and now have the audacity to try and blame others for their greed or say there is no problem because they have managed to find a limited aggregation of fish in a small geographical area when there should be fish everywhere. I will agree that the fisheries' management and science has been woefully inadequate and contributed to the problem, but ultimately fishermen are guilty of creating their own messes. We like to romanticize the commercial and charter fisherman, but doing so let's too many of them off the hook for painting themselves in a corner.
I am fortunate to fish each year with anglers who share my values and hopefully will return if they are happy with the "job" I am doing, but if my business is negatively impacted by the greed and short sighted approach of other charter captains, so-called "commercial" striped bass anglers in Massachusetts, and recreational anglers who feel it is OK to kill their limit each and every time they fish, be assured that the government won't be coming to bail me out as they have done with the commercial ground fish fleet. Tackle shops, tackle manufacturers, and other businesses that will suffer if folks can't come and enjoy a healthy, vibrant fishery. But here we are with certain groups of charter captains asking for a "bail out" that isn't an option for anglers who aren't responsible for the mess we are in.
What's saddest for me is to see some of the newer generation of captains here on the Cape posting glory photos on their websites of piles of dead bass, just as it was done in the past. Never in my wildest imagination did I believe we would have made it to this point with striped bass after having gone through the collapse that we saw just three decades ago. I don't hear as well as I once did and I wonder if it is getting worse by the day when I actually hear the same kind of statements that were bandied about during the last collapse.
But here we are again with some folks asking for special dispensation so they can kill more fish and government institutions are doing everything to accommodate them through games such as "conservation equivalency", while casting a blind eye towards what their own technical committee and studies are showing. In the end, I guess it's true what they say: "Insanity is repeating the same actions and expecting different results."

What he said

[ronfish]

Dave Peros- I heartily agree with your stand against charter captains being able to sell any extra fish that their clients don't want. It all boils down to greed and this greed will spell the end of stripers just as it has done with the Gulf of Maine cod. As the old quote goes the squeaky wheel gets the grease so the group that makes the most noise is going to get what it wants whether it is good for the fishery or not- just to shut them up and maybe get their vote.
If the science was followed then striper fishing would not be targeting the breeders but the males or prebreeders and the environment would be improved to aid in the recruitment of the species from the breeders which are allowed to breed. I being a recreational fisherman and under the new regulations I would only be able to possess one striper per day unless I wanted to obtain a commercial license. I prefer to fish for enjoyment not money and have the ability to take an occasional fish for the table. Why should someone not actually hooking and landing a fish be able to sell a fish which might also be thrown out by the wholesaler if it becomes too old to retail. Besides when the fishing is good the price drops so how are the commercial fishermen really gaining anything. I have seen this happen in the shellfishing industry in RI and now there isn't enough for any one to make a living off of. The same is happening to the cod fishery. If we on't learn from history then we a doomed to repeat the same mistakes. An alternative explanation of insanity.

[rockdoc]

right on Capt Dave Peros!

Originally Posted by Dave Peros

First off, let me admit up front that I prefer to call myself a "fishing guide" rather than a "charter captain" because my approach to taking folks out is to educate them about fishing and emphasize catch-and-release. I would say of the 125 to 150 trips I take a year, about six to ten fish are kept overall. I might practice strictly catch and release myself when fishing, but there is no place on my boat for browbeating an angler who wants to take a single fish for the table - and hopefully not an exceptionally large female fish that is far more important live than dead.
When I went into business, I elected to go small in terms of my boat and emphasize light tackle casting and fly fishing catch-and-release because I believed that would be a sustainable approach. It is really aggravating to listen to charter captains, who through their "keep the max each and every trip" have contributed to the stock problems we are facing, whine about needing more dead fish to stay in business. I have had some heated discussions with charter captains I know about the double dip of chartering and commercial fishing on the same day and have often wondered what everyone's take is on this being a legal activity in Massachusetts. I make a living through guiding and certainly not a killing, but I have never been able to figure out the logic of captains who say that being able to make an additional buck on commercial days by selling excess fish is necessary, when they are already picking up a pay check for a charter!
It is like "deja vu all over again" when I listen to charter captains, whether it is arguing that there are still plenty of bass out there, they have moved, they are in the EEZ, etc., or that they deserve a bigger share because they are in the business of catching fish. I see their "blindness" mirrored in the complaints offered up by the ground fish fleet that couldn't see beyond the tip of their noses and the dollars in their wallets and now have the audacity to try and blame others for their greed or say there is no problem because they have managed to find a limited aggregation of fish in a small geographical area when there should be fish everywhere. I will agree that the fisheries' management and science has been woefully inadequate and contributed to the problem, but ultimately fishermen are guilty of creating their own messes. We like to romanticize the commercial and charter fisherman, but doing so let's too many of them off the hook for painting themselves in a corner.
I am fortunate to fish each year with anglers who share my values and hopefully will return if they are happy with the "job" I am doing, but if my business is negatively impacted by the greed and short sighted approach of other charter captains, so-called "commercial" striped bass anglers in Massachusetts, and recreational anglers who feel it is OK to kill their limit each and every time they fish, be assured that the government won't be coming to bail me out as they have done with the commercial ground fish fleet. Tackle shops, tackle manufacturers, and other businesses that will suffer if folks can't come and enjoy a healthy, vibrant fishery. But here we are with certain groups of charter captains asking for a "bail out" that isn't an option for anglers who aren't responsible for the mess we are in.
What's saddest for me is to see some of the newer generation of captains here on the Cape posting glory photos on their websites of piles of dead bass, just as it was done in the past. Never in my wildest imagination did I believe we would have made it to this point with striped bass after having gone through the collapse that we saw just three decades ago. I don't hear as well as I once did and I wonder if it is getting worse by the day when I actually hear the same kind of statements that were bandied about during the last collapse.
But here we are again with some folks asking for special dispensation so they can kill more fish and government institutions are doing everything to accommodate them through games such as "conservation equivalency", while casting a blind eye towards what their own technical committee and studies are showing. In the end, I guess it's true what they say: "Insanity is repeating the same actions and expecting different results."

[Nebe]

Charter captains are taking recreational fishermen fishing. Therefore , a recreational limit shall apply.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[big jay]

The Cape Cod Charter Boat Association already came out in favor of 1 @ 28".
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[piemma]

Originally Posted by big jay

The Cape Cod Charter Boat Association already came out in favor of 1 @ 28".
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[puppet]

This two fish per angler plea is just a ploy for shady charters.

I treat my my father, nephews, and bother inlaws every summer to
charter fishing during our summer vacation. There are six of us.
Shamefully I must admit, that during past years we would limit out
and take the fish home. Last year the fishing was slow and we took
one fish per angler.

This year we decided to only take a pair of fish. The minute the
captain heard the words we were gonna just take a two, he tried to
strong arm us into limiting out. He even gaffed a third fish. Who
gaff's striped bass? Thankfully the confrontation ended with slow
fishing, but the captain was hell bent on using our head count to
limit and most probably sell the fish to the market. This all on a
non-comercial day. It was clear that the captain was gonna do what
he wanted regardless of my arguing.

After confronting the owner of the charter business about my
experience, they informed me that they would correct things. A
buddy of mine chartered with the same outfit a couple weeks later.
He was on vacation as well and didn't take any fish home, yet the
boat limited and the captain took the fish.

I am sure this is commonplace. I have a feeling that the client is out
to catch fish. The experience is key not the meat. 1 fish per person
in a six pack is six fish.....still more than enough. The way things
are...excessive still.

As Dave Peros notes these charters are double dipping and are
selling these illegal fish. They will not loose clients if the laws
change, but they will loose significant income.

Again, if the laws are not enforced...they are not laws. Not only
should the limit change, but the sale of illegal fish should be policed.

[denis]

Well said,CaptainPeros

[thefishingfreak]

Originally Posted by denis

Well said,CaptainPeros

what the 17 foot skiff, back bay light tackle specialist telling the 6 pack charter fleet they can't have 2 fish per customer because that's not what HE wants, or caters HIS business to?

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Nothing but pure jealousy and a beggar thy neighbor attitude. ]

BINGO

[Nebe]

this is a fish grab! This isnt about 'no one will book a charter with us if it goes down to one fish'... its 'we are going to get a lot more bookings if its 2 fish!!!"


FISH GRAB!!!!

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

what the 17 foot skiff, back bay light tackle specialist telling the 6 pack charter fleet they can't have 2 fish per customer because that's not what HE wants, or caters HIS business to?

Yup, well said on his part.

I might be reading it wrong but aren't you doing the same thing you accuse him of doing?

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by big jay

The Cape Cod Charter Boat Association already came out in favor of 1 @ 28".
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

EXCELLENT!!! glad to hear it

[Jackbass]

Wait until the Viking is taking two per head plus captain and mates all year next year to the tune of 2 boats three trips a day.
I always have said if someone is operating lawfully zip it and advocate for the change in law. But many have stated specifically the law needs to change and this is going to go no where because of politics and shady state managers looking to circumvent to benefit cronies.

It's like pushing rope uphill
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[MakoMike]

Nothing but pure jealousy and a beggar thy neighbor attitude. A 25% reduction is what was mandated, how any user group reached that required reduction is nothing but noise. Personally I advocated for a greater than 25% reduction, but that's what was mandated.

Keep in mind that what is really needed to rebuild the bass population is favorable weather, its got precious little to do with the amount of spawning females. Also, for the original poster, during the summer there are almost no females in the Chesapeake bay, most of the fish are 18 inch or small MALES

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Nothing but pure jealousy and a beggar thy neighbor attitude. MALES

How are we (I) jealous?

And how would that imply a "begger thy neighbor attitude"? I don't make $ off of fish.

I think most clients don't care how many bass they can take home and are willing to take home other fish. If they wanted to take get their monies worth in fish, they would be better off going to a fish market in most cases. Most charters are there for the experience - whether it is with the family or friends.

As I've discussed with friends, I think charter captains do a lousy job of "selling the experience" and instead focus on the meat. If I was a charter captain, I'd have a good digital camera on board and I'd either email the charter pictures of the day or have pictures developed and sent to them within the week.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Personally I advocated for a greater than 25% reduction, but that's what was mandated.
]

thank you, I did too


as far as jealousy, you're entitled to your opinion
I think most of us see the writing on the wall and spend enough time on the water on waters' edge to see history repeating itself and want to do something about it instead of squeezing every last dollar like some seem to, that's all

[Rockport24]

Can somebody explain why keeping 2 fish per angler is going to increase the charters' business? I would be willing to be that 99.9% of charter clients have no friggin idea what the regs are to begin with, so why is this such an issue?

Did the charter captains do some market research and determine that keeping less fish means less charter business? seriously, correct me if I'm off base here.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by Rockport24

Can somebody explain why keeping 2 fish per angler is going to increase the charters' business? I would be willing to be that 99.9% of charter clients have no friggin idea what the regs are to begin with, so why is this such an issue?

You would loose your money. Would you book a charter without knowing what the regs are? Before the two fish limit, there was almost no charters targeting striped bass.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Rockport24

Can somebody explain why keeping 2 fish per angler is going to increase the charters' business? I would be willing to be that 99.9% of charter clients have no friggin idea what the regs are to begin with, so why is this such an issue?

Originally Posted by MakoMike

You would loose your money. Would you book a charter without knowing what the regs are? Before the two fish limit, there was almost no charters targeting striped bass.

I've had friends call me the night before they were going on a charter asking about the regs. bc they had no idea what they were. They were going out either with their kids or with friends.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Before the two fish limit, there was almost no charters targeting striped bass.

maybe where you live but that's not true around here

I used to make a decent enough living working hard in construction of new homes as well as remodels, then comes the mortgage crisis because of some greedy individuals and it all went to hell, guess what? you adapt, do something else or get creative, supplement your lost income, cut back on expenses. the strong survive, just like the ones on the Cape will survive supporting one fish. I am not going to feel bad for any charter biz here in Mass or in RI or anywhere else that thinks they need 2 fish per day limit, no pity from me and I am not from stripersforever, never been to their site nothing like that. Suck it up and live with it all of us!

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Rockport24

Can somebody explain why keeping 2 fish per angler is going to increase the charters' business? I would be willing to be that 99.9% of charter clients have no friggin idea what the regs are to begin with, so why is this such an issue?

Did the charter captains do some market research and determine that keeping less fish means less charter business? seriously, correct me if I'm off base here.

Our clients for the most part are fisherman and not ignorant of the laws . Neither are we . But they lack a boat or the free time to toss plugs in the canal every night . They like to eat fish so the book a charter , feed the family fresh fish and have fun at what they enjoy .
Doesn't sound unreasonable .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by buckman

Our clients for the most part are fisherman and not ignorant of the laws . Neither are we . But they lack a boat or the free time to toss plugs in the canal every night . They like to eat fish so the book a charter , feed the family fresh fish and have fun at what they enjoy .
Doesn't sound unreasonable .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

well so what, if one fish isn't enough there is an alternative if you need more food, go to the store like everyone else

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Rockport24

Can somebody explain why keeping 2 fish per angler is going to increase the charters' business? I would be willing to be that 99.9% of charter clients have no friggin idea what the regs are to begin with, so why is this such an issue?

Did the charter captains do some market research and determine that keeping less fish means less charter business? seriously, correct me if I'm off base here.

I'm old enough to remember Sabatowski, and others, where you got to take home one fish at the end of a charter. Sabby had no trouble being fully booked through the season. Granted, they sold the rest of the catch, but the point is, people still paid and showed up knowing they'd only get to keep one fish.