C:...Make America Great Again

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

It seems that you are protecting the power.

unquestioningly accept what they say ... thats funny

I'll questions a judge when I have the knowledge of law and the facts of the case when it is on par with His Knowledge and experience

the same go's for a builder a plumber or an electrician un like you I wont questions for the pleasure of questioning .. But facts dont seem to be part of your tool bag, its appears always to be about the feelings and fighting the system against a hidden enemy that only you can see

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

only a blind white guy wouldn't see Racism but it seem the courts saw things differently all over the county .. must be another liberal conspiracy

.

WDMSO, I have no doubt that you can post dozens of links, to stories that claim voter id laws are racist.

But the question is, why? Why do those laws disproportionately target blacks?

What is it, about getting a voter id card, that makes it harder for poor blacks to get, than for poor whites, or poor Latinos?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

WDMSO, I have no doubt that you can post dozens of links, to stories that claim voter id laws are racist.

But the question is, why? Why do those laws disproportionately target blacks?

What is it, about getting a voter id card, that makes it harder for poor blacks to get, than for poor whites, or poor Latinos?

He will check his tool bag and get back to you on that ...............
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I guess you would have to say it is bc Repub. have no use for minorities. Why else would the Repub. do it if there is no fraud?

What did the judge who threw out the NC law say - something like it targeted African-Americans with almost surgical precision. The only reason to do it would be to depress black turnout at the polls.

Yup, they should try conservatism

"I guess you would have to say it is bc Repub. have no use for minorities"

Yes, you would say that. And it's laughable. I wonder, then, why George Bush heroically rammed his AIDS relief plan through Congress, and is credited with saving over one million lives of AIDS patients in Africa? Or why he promoted Clarence Thomas, Condi Rice, and Colin Powell?

"Why else would the Repub. do it if there is no fraud?"

One reason is because there is, in fact, some fraud. Not a lot, naturally. But not "no fraud", either.

"it targeted African-Americans with almost surgical precision"

But WHY??? I honestly want to know, because I have no idea, why this is more of a burden for blacks than it is for other races? Why? If blacks can go through the same process to get an id, but freely choose not to, is THAT racist? Just because voter id laws reduce black voting turnout more than they restrict white voter turnout, that doesn't mean it's racist. It could mean that whites are more likely to care enough about voting, to go through the hassle of getting the id. If the process is more burdensome to blacks, that's racist. If it's not more burdensome for blacks, that means they are freely choosing not to get the id, which would not be racist.

"they should try conservatism "

Tell the blacks in Hartford, New Haven, Bridgeport, Chicago, Milwaukee, Baltimore, and St Louis, that liberalism has been a positive influence. My God, how could it be worse?

Paul, here is the thing...Bill Clinton did a lot of the economic things that conservatives endorse...he kicked millions of blacks off welfare. Do you know what happened? They went to work. And he is a liberal hero. But if I suggest the same thing, his wife says I am a racist. If you can explain that hypocrisy, I would love to hear it.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by buckman

He will check his tool bag and get back to you on that ...............
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Buckman, I have asked the question 50 times, why is getting an id more burdensome for blacks. The only answer I ever get is "because this judge said so".

What is it about the process of getting an id, that is inherently more burdensome for blacks?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Buckman, I have asked the question 50 times, why is getting an id more burdensome for blacks. The only answer I ever get is "because this judge said so".

What is it about the process of getting an id, that is inherently more burdensome for blacks?

Does anyone here know anybody that does not have some form of ID and can you please give me a legitimate reason why they don't have one ?
I actually do know a few and they are doing a demolition job for a sub contractor , as I type this this . The reason ... Well let's just say they won't be voting for Trump.
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT;1108296
"Why else would the Repub. do it if there is no fraud?"

One reason is because there is, in fact, some fraud. Not a lot, naturally. But not "no fraud", either.
[COLOR="Red"

So the Repub. will disenfranchise lots of minorities bc there is "some fraud". In some of the states these types of laws have been enacted, there is been 0 fraud.[/COLOR]
"it targeted African-Americans with almost surgical precision"

But WHY??? We have discussed this numerous times - pls go back and read those postings. And that is a different issue. The issue her is why did the Repub. legisl. in many states pass these type of laws. The reason is to prevent minorities from voting..

I deleted my original post bc I didn't read the 1st page. So I responded and then saw wdmso brought up the same "surgical precision".

[buckman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I deleted my original post bc I didn't read the 1st page. So I responded and then saw wdmso brought up the same "surgical precision".

Finally, someone who can tell us how this affects African Americans more then others .
Go ahead . The stage is all yours .
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

We have discussed this numerous times - pls go back and read those postings. And that is a different issue. The issue her is why did the Repub. legisl. in many states pass these type of laws. The reason is to prevent minorities from voting".

Paul, remind me.

THERE IS NO WAY ANYONE CAN CLAIM THE PROCESS IS DIFFERENT, OR INHERENTLY MORE BURDENSOME, FOR ONE RACE.

Come on.

[PaulS]

And you can't tell me that those Repub. Legisl. put those restrictions in for any other reason than to keep minorities from being able to vote. And they go well beyond voter id.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

And you can't tell me that those Repub. Legisl. put those restrictions in for any other reason than to keep minorities from being able to vote. And they go well beyond voter id.
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You made the claim that the id requirement us racist. Your 'proof' is:

(1) some judge said so, apparently without clarifying how it targets blacks
(2) the GOP endorsed the notion, and they are all racists, so it must be racist

Paul, do you have any evidence that he process is different (harder) for blacks? Or are you saying that there skin color means they are less able to get the id?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by wdmso

only a blind white guy wouldn't see Racism but it seem the courts saw things differently all over the county .. must be another liberal conspiracy

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/ar...-black-voters/ same phrase Discrimination with “almost surgical precision”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/op...ng-rights.html

Let me clarify, I'm asking YOU, not PBS or the NY Times, how requiring an ID to vote is going to dis-proportionately affect Blacks over Whites

I know I'm just a blind-ass "Cracker"....so now's YOUR chance to enlighten me.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Let me clarify, I'm asking YOU, not PBS or the NY Times, how requiring an ID to vote is going to dis-proportionately affect Blacks over Whites

I know I'm just a blind-ass "Cracker"....so now's YOU'RE chance to enlighten me.

Here is the honest, thoughtful response...since you will never get it from a liberal on this issue.

The id requirement, obviously, is no more burdensome for one race than another. So it's not, in and of itself, even a teeny bit racist.

However, the more hoops you have to jump through to vote, the less likely that disenfranchised citizens will be, to vote.

A higher % of blacks are disenfranchised than whites.

Therefore, voter id requirements will likely have the effect of decreasing black votes more than they decrease white votes. I don't doubt that's the effect. But the underlying cause has absolutely nothing to do with race, and everything to do with culture and behavior. It's a free choice for blacks to make.

Are some GOP legislators counting on that, and that's why they support id laws, and hide their true intent by saying they are trying to eliminate voter fraud? I am sure that thought crossed the minds of some of the Republicans who support these laws. But the fact is, and it's probably irrefutable (since none of you bothered to refute it) that it's not racist.

There was a famous case a few years ago of firefighters in New Haven taking a test for promotion. It was a test certified to be racially neutral, whatever the hell that means. A bunch of white guys got the highest scores, and earned the promotion. The city then nullified the test, saying that because not enough blacks got high scores, it therefore had to be racist. It went to the Supreme Court, who ruled that there was no racism, that the white guys won fair and square. Just because all the top scorers were white, doesn't mean it's racist.

Is the NBA racist? Or the US Track and Field team, I didn't see a lot of white guys in the 100 meter sprint in the Olymoics. Is that, therefore, racist?

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by buckman

Finally, someone who can tell us how this affects African Americans more then others .
Go ahead . The stage is all yours .
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Go back and look at prior threads - this issue was covered multiple times.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Go back and look at prior threads - this issue was covered multiple times.

I'm too lazy .
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Go back and look at prior threads - this issue was covered multiple times.

No, it has been asked multiple times. It has been answered, zero times. Because the burden of getting the id, obviously, is not a function of race.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

unquestioningly accept what they say ... thats funny

I'm not aware that you asked questions or had any regarding the list of decisions you've cited. You did say you didn't know why, but the Judges said so . . .

So what questions do you have re the decisions. Or is it enough, simply and completely, that the judges said so. Did you unquestioningly accept what they said?

I'll questions a judge when I have the knowledge of law and the facts of the case when it is on par with His Knowledge and experience

Are you unable to know what is racist? Is racism too difficult for average Americans to understand, and only Judges are intelligent enough to know it? And how do you distinguish which judges are intelligent enough to know it? What about the dissenting opinions? Did you read those?

the same go's for a builder a plumber or an electrician

There are lots of builders and plumbers. How do you know which one to choose? Do you actually believe that working on standardized utilities with standardized methods, which have no intellectual, philosophical, moral, or civic content, is analogous to judging law?

And do you know how the Constitution works as well as you know how to turn on a light switch, or flush a toilet? If you don't, why not? It used to be taught in schools. Maybe not anymore. It is not difficult to read. Do you read the instructions when you get a new appliance?

un like you I wont questions for the pleasure of questioning ..

Perhaps you mean for the sake of questioning. And I don't ask them for the sake of doing so. I do it in order to learn something about that which I question. Sometimes knowing something that I was not aware of is critical. As for the pleasure of questioning, that is a part of the pleasure of learning. If learning about something that is not relevant or critical to me is painful or boring, I won't waste my time asking questions about it.

But facts dont seem to be part of your tool bag, its appears always to be about the feelings and fighting the system against a hidden enemy that only you can see

I used facts in my previous responses to you. And they were facts that just lay around the surface of our society. It is not necessary to store them in a tool bag, nor is there a tool bag big enough to contain them.

What feelings did I express to which you refer?

And Progressivism, socialism, totalitarianism are not hidden enemies. And I am not the only one who can see them.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

No, it has been asked multiple times. It has been answered, zero times. Because the burden of getting the id, obviously, is not a function of race.

How about this. If I pull up a thread where we discussed this exact same issue from now on every time you bring up a topic that has been discussed before and someone points it out, you don't particpate in the rest of that thread?

Funny you mention Colin Powell - he just said the whole Birther movement was racist.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Funny you mention Colin Powell - he just said the whole Birther movement was racist.

Just because he said it doesn't make it so....

Was it Idiotic? Yes. Was it Misguided? Yes. Was it one Party trying to defame the other party's candidate? Yes

Was it Racist? Absolutely not....

that term has gotten sooooo over-used it has completely lost its validity in most arguments.

Please tell me how asking someone to produce their birth certificate, or claiming they're not a US citizen, meets the definition of racism.

rac·ism
/ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun
noun: racism

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

[PaulS]

Have I mentioned Racism in my posts other than to mention what Colin Powell thinks of the birther movement (and I guess the Republican Presidential candidate Donald Trump).

However, since you brought it up. - It's crazy to think the Birther movement didn't have any racism involved w/it.

But back to the orginal point - in that absense of any real voter fraud do you agree that the NC voter ID law (and the other aspects like closing polling places, shorting voting times, etc.) was meant to prevent Blacks from voting?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

How about this. If I pull up a thread where we discussed this exact same issue from now on every time you bring up a topic that has been discussed before and someone points it out, you don't particpate in the rest of that thread?

Funny you mention Colin Powell - he just said the whole Birther movement was racist.

This is surreal. We keep asking why the id process is more burdensome for blacks, and you will not answer. You dodge. You re-direct. You insult. But you cannot answer the question directly.

Colin Powell? Now that his emails were hacked, we really know what he thinks of Hilary (ambitious, full of hubris) and her pervert husband (still di*king bimbos in his home!!!).

Of course, some racists were birthers. That doesn't mean questioning his birth, was necessarily racist. Some of them weren't racist, just paranoid or stupid or uninformed.

Anyway, one final time...please tell us why it's harder for blacks to get this id, than whites.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

However, since you brought it up. - It's crazy to think the Birther movement didn't have any racism involved w/it.

Well, Explain it to me?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Have I mentioned Racism in my posts other than to mention what Colin Powell thinks of the birther movement (and I guess the Republican Presidential candidate Donald Trump).

However, since you brought it up. - It's crazy to think the Birther movement didn't have any racism involved w/it.

But back to the orginal point - in that absense of any real voter fraud do you agree that the NC voter ID law (and the other aspects like closing polling places, shorting voting times, etc.) was meant to prevent Blacks from voting?

"Have I mentioned Racism in my posts "

Are you feeling OK? Seriously, are you OK? Because you have said a couple of times lately, that "Republicans have no use for minorities. "

"It's crazy to think the Birther movement didn't have any racism involved w/it"

Ah, but you didn't say there was "some" racism. You said the movement itself was racist. Two very different things. I don't think liberals even notice anymore, when they accuse conservatives of racism. It's like breathing to them (and you) now. You don't even notice when you are doing it anymore.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Well, Explain it to me?

(1) Colin Powell said so.
(2) it makes conservatives look hateful

That, to liberals, more than suffices as evidence of racism.

[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Was it Racist? Absolutely not....

that term has gotten sooooo over-used it has completely lost its validity in most arguments.

Please tell me how asking someone to produce their birth certificate, or claiming they're not a US citizen, meets the definition of racism.

Use the brain Luke!
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[The Dad Fisherman]

the only good thing about Hilary getting elected is that I won't be called a racist because I'm white.

I'll get to be called Sexist and a Misogynist because I'm male

but regardless, all the ills in this country are going to be my fault

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

Use the brain Luke!
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Use Common Sense, Jar Jar

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Have I mentioned Racism in my posts?

when you don't in some form or fashion, it's a shocker

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Well, Explain it to me?

The many, many racist signs which were so prevelant early on.

[Nebe]

Re structuring voting precincts, closing polling areas in urban areas could be used as an example.
Personally I don't think that blacks are suppressed from voting
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