Spring Surf Club Challenge Results

[fishbones]

I haven't been fishing nearly as much as I have in the past, and it's been my best spring in years. My friends and I have been getting into tons of fish in all size classes from micros to cows. They guys who aren't catching should try fishing different spots. Unless you like having an excuse for not catching, because then you can come on here and complain and make snarky comments directed at guys who legally keep fish they've caught.
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[bart]

I think it's been a great year, too. I haven't fished too much and I've still done pretty well. Same with my friends, micros to cows.

I think the biggest problem with inshore RI fishing is that there isn't any big bait to hold the fish. Micro sand eels aren't going to keep large fish around. Also, the water quality is lacking in RI, IMO. You can just tell by the difference in the appearance of the fish compared to other locales.

I still don't think it's a good thing that big fish get taken everyday at the island. I'm just speaking logistically, not morally or ethically. I just don't see how those fish can take the beating they do, year after year. There can't be an endless supply of large... or maybe there is?

Off topic, but to Bassballer's point, I'm not sure I enjoy driving hooks into a fish's face just for my own enjoyment anymore. I've been going back and forth on this the last couple of years...that's for a different thread, though.

[piemma]

My last comment on this topic. I have done what we do for over 50 years. Yeah, I was comm in the 70s. Yeah, I killed a ton of Bass in the 50+ years I have been doing it.

I went through a period the last few years when I didn't kill anything and I had plenty of fish in the 20s, 30s and a few 40s that I certainly could have killed with out a sec of guilt but I didn't to try and protect the species.

Last year I became aware of the biomass of large fish that are being killed daily by the charter guys, the comm guys from at least 2 states and anyone else who goes to the SW Ledge and 3 ways eels in 60 feet of water. More 40s, 50s and 60s killed in a weekend than most of us have seen in 50 years of 100 nights a year.

So what the hell am I protecting by letting my 1/2 a dozen 30s go every year? NOTHING!

My point is as long as Stripers are considered a food fish and not a game fish with game fish protected status like Tarpon and Snook,
my small contribution to conservation is a piss hole in the snow.

I'm not saying that I am killing every fish I catch.....far from it. I am taking a fish for the table for my family, for a friend or for a cookout we are invited to. My letting every fish go does nothing for the bigger picture. JMO

[Clammer]

I guess all the knowledge I thought I learned by paying my dues day & night for years ,,,didn,t count .

as of this week IMO the bass fishing in the bay totally sucks ...................... even the slug of 26 to 33" fish have moved off for the most part ><><

I guess I have to try some new places or ya can,t catch what ain,t there

[chris L]

its like girls in the head . chat chat chat #^&#^&#^&#^& chat #^&#^&#^&#^&

[bart]

Originally Posted by Clammer

I guess all the knowledge I thought I learned by paying my dues day & night for years ,,,didn,t count .

as of this week IMO the bass fishing in the bay totally sucks ...................... even the slug of 26 to 33" fish have moved off for the most part ><><

I guess I have to try some new places or ya can,t catch what ain,t there

Mike, respectfully, are there river herring, sea herring, macks, big sand eels, and pogies in the Bay? How warm are the water temps? Again, I ask respectfully bc I know how long you've fished the Bay. I just don't see why big fish would hold in Narragansett Bay when they can blast right by and chase big, cold water prey for a whole season.

[Clammer]

there is more pogies in the bay now than in along , long time ..they even winter over .
there has been good runs of buckies the last few years & with some of the damns taken down and/or ladders they are getting into the rivers & ponds to spawn .

we also have a natural supply of wild eels. & descent amount of squid & butterfish .

what seems to be missing / more & more each year is the holdover small bait .mummies / grass shrimp .

we will have rain bait & peanut bunker as the season progresses .
We have noticed the change in bait & a change of a few of the fisheries .ever since they made the sewerage tunnel ......whatever they are dumping in the bay ............... the water is a lot cleaner for humans ...but again IMO ..it is doing something to the fisheries / not just fin fish / but the breeding grounds for the baitfish & also add the shellfish stock .

oh well ......its just another issue not being considered ., fix one thing /fu ck up another

[Vogt]

Originally Posted by bassballer

If your worried about hurting fish, and the survival rate of a hard fought fish, maybe the sport of driving a set of table hooks though a fish's face isn't for you.

THANK YOU! Perfectly stated.

[JohnR]

Balance Danielson, Balance.

A sportsman learns to conserve and act on behalf of their quarry.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by bassballer

I agree. To each his own. Release a bunch, kill a bunch, just stay within the regs. If your worried about hurting fish, and the survival rate of a hard fought fish, maybe the sport of driving a set of table hooks though a fish's face isn't for you.

Did dangles call me a #^&#^&#^&#^&head? That's an honor coming from him

For the record I have all but abandoned catch and release fishing because of exactly what you have said. If I do want a bass for the table I will use the methods necessary to avoid small fish and will kill the first fish I land and stop fishing.

But that's just me.
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[Sea Dangles]

I was not referring to you Nebe. Just pointing out the hypocrisy as a whole. FWIW I have not killed a striped bass this year,but I plan on taking what I am entitled to when the time comes without apology.
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[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I was not referring to you Nebe. Just pointing out the hypocrisy as a whole. FWIW I have not killed a striped bass this year,but I plan on taking what I am entitled to when the time comes without apology.
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Same here.
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[piemma]

For the record I have all but abandoned catch and release fishing because of exactly what you have said. If I do want a bass for the table I will use the methods necessary to avoid small fish and will kill the first fish I land and stop fishing.

But that's just me.
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That is exactly what I said in my post Eben!

[Clammer]

I don,t think ya gonna have to worry ><><

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by piemma

For the record I have all but abandoned catch and release fishing because of exactly what you have said. If I do want a bass for the table I will use the methods necessary to avoid small fish and will kill the first fish I land and stop fishing.

But that's just me.
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That is exactly what I said in my post Eben![/QUOTE]

A pat on the back to you too.

It is a FACT that there are people out there who kill big fish for the photo op and the tackleshop show and tell trips who end up tossing a beautiful breeder in a dumpster our in the woods. You and I both know one or more of them. That is my beef.
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Nebe

That is exactly what I said in my post Eben!

A pat on the back to you too.

It is a FACT that there are people out there who kill big fish for the photo op and the tackleshop show and tell trips who end up tossing a beautiful breeder in a dumpster our in the woods. You and I both know one or more of them. That is my beef.
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It is just a phase
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[piemma]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

A pat on the back to you too.

It is a FACT that there are people out there who kill big fish for the photo op and the tackleshop show and tell trips who end up tossing a beautiful breeder in a dumpster our in the woods. You and I both know one or more of them. That is my beef.
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It is just a phase
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Indeed we do Chris.

[numbskull]

It is stupid to kill a large (say #25 and over) to eat unless you plan to only eat one meal from it and give away the rest.

It is stupid for a lot of reasons that many people do not care about but there is ONE reason that even the most selfish of us should care about..

Toxin levels in older (i.e., large) fish are often significantly higher than in younger fish.......and can be VERY high in 10-20% of the larger fish in that subset (just go look at the sample data on which the recommendations are made....I have). Yeah I know you want to blow this off but before doing so consider what it means. If you eat multiple meals from one of those larger fish that is in the high toxin range you get multiple repeated exposures to the high toxin level. Maybe you're OK with that but you are a flat out idiot if you assume your wife and children should also be OK with that and you are an even bigger idiot for not protecting them from it.

The recommended levels of striped bass consumption are based on average, not peak toxin levels. This works to protect you ONLY if you buy fish in a restaurant or a fish market since over the course of the season you get exposed to fish with both high and low toxin levels which average out (no one gets poisoned by eating a single meal from any striped bass). It DOES NOT WORK if you catch and keep your own LARGE fish then eat multiple meals from that fish and that certainly can expose you to toxin levels far above what the guidelines assume. Doing so, therefore, is just flat out stupid and a disservice to those who love and trust you (particularly if they are growing children).

It is what it is. Better to kill and eat multiple fish closer to 28" than a single big fish......unless, as stated above, you plan to only make a single meal from the big fish.

And one further note. Do not buy into the bullsht posted on line about toxin levels all being in the organs, skin, or red meat of a fish (the "they grind the whole thing up to test it" fallacy....fishery biologists might do this but Health Departments do not). As an MD, I spoke directly with the State Health Dept several years ago and they where very clear that their testing was done only on samples from fillets.

[piemma]

One other thought. When the moratorium kicked in in 88 or 89, we couldn't keep any bass. Then it went to one at 36". I remember how the beaches were literally empty of surf fishermen. I wonder how many of our younger peers will fish when a moratorium kicks in (which I am willing to bet it will) since they will not be allowed to keep any.
I still have an old lami surf rod with a wrap at 36" and another added when we went down to 34" in 92.
I may be misquoting but I think it goes "history is destined to repeat itself".

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by piemma

One other thought. When the moratorium kicked in in 88 or 89, we couldn't keep any bass. Then it went to one at 36". I remember how the beaches were literally empty of surf fishermen. I wonder how many of our younger peers will fish when a moratorium kicks in (which I am willing to bet it will) since they will not be allowed to keep any.
I still have an old lami surf rod with a wrap at 36" and another added when we went down to 34" in 92.
I may be misquoting but I think it goes "history is destined to repeat itself".

There will not be a moratorium. The 2011 year class took care of that. The real issue will be the lack of quality fish in decent numbers until those 2011 fish mature (not that they'll likely get the chance) since there is not much in the pipeline ahead of them based on the Chesapeake YOY estimates and population sampling (although I think we also see a lot of Hudson fish in our fishery which might provide some relief).

[Nebe]

Paul- the quote is "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by numbskull

It is stupid to kill a large (say #25 and over) to eat unless you plan to only eat one meal from it and give away the rest.

It is stupid for a lot of reasons that many people do not care about but there is ONE reason that even the most selfish of us should care about..

Toxin levels in older (i.e., large) fish are often significantly higher than in younger fish.......and can be VERY high in 10-20% of the larger fish in that subset (just go look at the sample data on which the recommendations are made....I have). Yeah I know you want to blow this off but before doing so consider what it means. If you eat multiple meals from one of those larger fish that is in the high toxin range you get multiple repeated exposures to the high toxin level. Maybe you're OK with that but you are a flat out idiot if you assume your wife and children should also be OK with that and you are an even bigger idiot for not protecting them from it.

The recommended levels of striped bass consumption are based on average, not peak toxin levels. This works to protect you ONLY if you buy fish in a restaurant or a fish market since over the course of the season you get exposed to fish with both high and low toxin levels which average out (no one gets poisoned by eating a single meal from any striped bass). It DOES NOT WORK if you catch and keep your own LARGE fish then eat multiple meals from that fish and that certainly can expose you to toxin levels far above what the guidelines assume. Doing so, therefore, is just flat out stupid and a disservice to those who love and trust you (particularly if they are growing children).

It is what it is. Better to kill and eat multiple fish closer to 28" than a single big fish......unless, as stated above, you plan to only make a single meal from the big fish.

And one further note. Do not buy into the bullsht posted on line about toxin levels all being in the organs, skin, or red meat of a fish (the "they grind the whole thing up to test it" fallacy....fishery biologists might do this but Health Departments do not). As an MD, I spoke directly with the State Health Dept several years ago and they where very clear that their testing was done only on samples from fillets.

George, I can only speak for myself but between chips, ice cream,Monsanto veggies,chicken and beef on roids,I have to wonder if a meal from a 28# bass will hold a candle when it comes to ingesting something "unhealthy ". Most restaurants are looking for the big ones because of superior yield. I honestly have no idea what could be on the label for most supermarket products but I have raised three kids on fruit roll ups(they have no fruit,just coloring and crap)! That said, I am a gardening fanatic and go to great means to grow organically.
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[piemma]

Breaking tides at the Ditch this week. I'm betting it's an absolute zoo.

[bloocrab]

Originally Posted by piemma

Breaking tides at the Ditch this week. I'm betting it's an absolute zoo.

Absolutely!!! My buddy just shot me text, some guy caught a keeper at pole # 72.....it was 29 1/2 inches.......he killed it.

[bloocrab]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Balance Danielson, Balance.

A sportsman learns to conserve and act on behalf of their quarry.

For the "sportsman" /recreational fisherman, I believe the sanctions set in place for the protection of most local species are sufficient to sustain or at least maintain a healthy stock level. So even for those who cannot police themselves, the laws are there.

IMO, the recreational sector is not the problem...it's the poor management of the commercial sector that's hurting stock levels.
When Mr. Cashuss Coin comes into the equation, that's when things get dicey.....Bottom Trawling, Mid-water Trawling, Dredging, Gill-netting, Long-lining, Purse Seining, Shore-worked Seine netting, Pots, Traps, Charter Boats, whatever else I missed, and let's not forget BY-CATCH!
I don't like bringing up problems without possible solutions, but I honestly don't believe there's a viable solution for this. Why? Because I also believe that they have the right to make a living (legally).

What's wrong is when people try to compare the two....you simply can not. Not on the scale of intake nor the scale of damage done. How many recreational fishermen would it take, to equate the damage done by one haul of a bottom trawler? Incomparable.
What would you compare the bycatch of any large fishing vessel to... when applying it to the recreational sector? Gut-hooked fish? Improperly released C&R fish? It's ridiculously impossible to compare the two...

Then there are the independent Comm. guys....no officer on board to keep watch, no one back at the dock to inspect their catch....they don't go to market, they have their back-pocket mom&pop fish-markets ready and willing to save a buck by disregarding the laws....again, it's when money gets involved that things go amok.

Before I start making Comm. enemies, ....let me just add that I'm sure there are more honest comm. guys then dishonest....and yes, there are plenty of dishonest Rec. fishermen as well....but the scale is still incomparable. I still consider a non-commercially-Licensed fisherman selling to a back-door shop, a comm. guy....if you're profiting financially from fish, your a comm. guy...regardless of license or not....so a true dishonest Rec. guy is basically a guy keeping shorts or more than the bag-limit allows, again incomparable...IMO

So when you tree-huggin', farm-raised fish eating fishermen belittle the guy who keeps his legal limit each time out or whenever he chooses, you're not doing any of us any good. We'll never be on the same team if we continue to fight withiin our own kitchens. Our voices will never be truly united if we don't understand each other. I think those of us who keep and eat local fish understand the C&R guys....the only bad thing I think you're doing is picking on us because you think if we keep our legal limit, we're killing the stocks...

I know I'm an Ahole, but I respect our fishery...I practice C&R, I don't cull fish, I cut lines when/if I feel I can't remove my hooks in a timely manner or in such a way that would further hurt the fish, I don't field-goal-kick my C&R's back in, I always take whatever care and time it takes to do my best in setting them free...I've missed plenty of blitzing fish because of this...but I'm ok with that...and NO, I don't need to explain myself to any of you, but before you guys start with your "Fish-Kill" bull#^&#^&#^&#^&, think before you start typing...stop being a bully behind a keyboard trying to make us feel like we're doing something wrong....instead, come out into the real arena and tell me I shouldn't take a fish home to eat, see where that gets you.

...Now let's toss in medicine/health as a way to sway people on why we shouldn't keep fish...really?
So I should release a hard fought 30# bass, which may not make it...in hopes of catching an easily caught 30" bass because it's less harmful for me? What should I be more concerned for at that point? The health of the 30# bass or my own? Or should we take a poll to see what the consensus is?

I comfortably fish with the understanding that I'm going to hurt fish, I'm going to kill fish, I'm going to eat fish. It's all part of WHY I fish.

**Apologies to Toby as I know this isn't the direction that he had hoped for in starting this thread...

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by bloocrab

For the "sportsman" /recreational fisherman, I believe the sanctions set in place for the protection of most local species are sufficient to sustain or at least maintain a healthy stock level. So even for those who cannot police themselves, the laws are there.

IMO, the recreational sector is not the problem...it's the poor management of the commercial sector that's hurting stock levels.
When Mr. Cashuss Coin comes into the equation, that's when things get dicey.....Bottom Trawling, Mid-water Trawling, Dredging, Gill-netting, Long-lining, Purse Seining, Shore-worked Seine netting, Pots, Traps, Charter Boats, whatever else I missed, and let's not forget BY-CATCH!
I don't like bringing up problems without possible solutions, but I honestly don't believe there's a viable solution for this. Why? Because I also believe that they have the right to make a living (legally).

What's wrong is when people try to compare the two....you simply can not. Not on the scale of intake nor the scale of damage done. How many recreational fishermen would it take, to equate the damage done by one haul of a bottom trawler? Incomparable.
What would you compare the bycatch of any large fishing vessel to... when applying it to the recreational sector? Gut-hooked fish? Improperly released C&R fish? It's ridiculously impossible to compare the two...

Then there are the independent Comm. guys....no officer on board to keep watch, no one back at the dock to inspect their catch....they don't go to market, they have their back-pocket mom&pop fish-markets ready and willing to save a buck by disregarding the laws....again, it's when money gets involved that things go amok.

Before I start making Comm. enemies, ....let me just add that I'm sure there are more honest comm. guys then dishonest....and yes, there are plenty of dishonest Rec. fishermen as well....but the scale is still incomparable. I still consider a non-commercially-Licensed fisherman selling to a back-door shop, a comm. guy....if you're profiting financially from fish, your a comm. guy...regardless of license or not....so a true dishonest Rec. guy is basically a guy keeping shorts or more than the bag-limit allows, again incomparable...IMO

So when you tree-huggin', farm-raised fish eating fishermen belittle the guy who keeps his legal limit each time out or whenever he chooses, you're not doing any of us any good. We'll never be on the same team if we continue to fight withiin our own kitchens. Our voices will never be truly united if we don't understand each other. I think those of us who keep and eat local fish understand the C&R guys....the only bad thing I think you're doing is picking on us because you think if we keep our legal limit, we're killing the stocks...

I know I'm an Ahole, but I respect our fishery...I practice C&R, I don't cull fish, I cut lines when/if I feel I can't remove my hooks in a timely manner or in such a way that would further hurt the fish, I don't field-goal-kick my C&R's back in, I always take whatever care and time it takes to do my best in setting them free...I've missed plenty of blitzing fish because of this...but I'm ok with that...and NO, I don't need to explain myself to any of you, but before you guys start with your "Fish-Kill" bull#^&#^&#^&#^&, think before you start typing...stop being a bully behind a keyboard trying to make us feel like we're doing something wrong....instead, come out into the real arena and tell me I shouldn't take a fish home to eat, see where that gets you.

...Now let's toss in medicine/health as a way to sway people on why we shouldn't keep fish...really?
So I should release a hard fought 30# bass, which may not make it...in hopes of catching an easily caught 30" bass because it's less harmful for me? What should I be more concerned for at that point? The health of the 30# bass or my own? Or should we take a poll to see what the consensus is?

I comfortably fish with the understanding that I'm going to hurt fish, I'm going to kill fish, I'm going to eat fish. It's all part of WHY I fish.

**Apologies to Toby as I know this isn't the direction that he had hoped for in starting this thread...

Great post!!!
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[Clammer]

G I L L Y ><><<><><

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by bloocrab

.
...Now let's toss in medicine/health as a way to sway people on why we shouldn't keep fish...really?
..

Please don't put words into my mouth.

I didn't say you shouldn't keep fish. I've got nothing against keeping fish to eat, nor am I trying to take some sort of sanctimonious high ground. I eat my share and certainly kill far more with C&R.

I simply said you shouldn't feed your family MULTIPLE meals from any single large fish (or more accurately, that you are "stupid" if you do so) and I spelled out why.

There is a reason why pregnant women and children under 12 are advised to not eat ANY striped bass and other people are told to limit their consumption to just 8 oz/month (or 8oz 4x/year in some states). Indeed, RI advises against ANYONE eating any amount of striped bass.

So, bloocrab and fishbones, if the "safe" level of consumption for adults is either zero or just 8 oz/month (or less) why in God's name would you want to make multiple meals from a #30 fish, particularly when there is strong reason to expect that large fish has more toxins than the "average" fish on which the state recommendations are based?

[fishbones]

[QUOTE=numbskull;1124290

So, bloocrab and fishbones, if the "safe" level of consumption for adults is either zero or just 8 oz/month (or less) why in God's name would you want to make multiple meals from a #30 fish, particularly when there is strong reason to expect that large fish has more toxins than the "average" fish on which the state recommendations are based?[/QUOTE]

George, please don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything about the health effects of eating stripers. I don't eat it myself, and the couple of fish I keep per year go to my mom and my mother in law. I release 99% of the bass I catch and I do my best to make sure they survive. Saying that bloocrabs post was excellent doesn't mean I agree with the entire thing.
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[Thumper]

Whoa, you guys need to find some fish and get laid...
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