My thoughts on the Canal (Not that anyone gives a &^%$)

[bobber]

now I'm even more glad I wasn't there......

[ProfessorM]

I know there was a lot of craziness but all in all I saw happy people catching loads of fish and being nice to one another. The negative situations were not the norm.
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[MAKAI]

They shrink pretty good when they dry up.
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[bobber]

I worry about all the fish being taken out of the population when its a slaughter like that......

[piemma]

Originally Posted by bobber

I worry about all the fish being taken out of the population when its a slaughter like that......

This was my point right from my first post. I know its OK to kill fish. I don't have a problem with it. But if you kill a few hundred or a 1000 breeders it's gotta have an effect long term.

[BigFish]

I showed up there Tuesday am last week......this was before it got out that the bite was crazy! I went based on tides! Well I got there at 3:30am and by 4:30am after watching all the jugheads show up with their white head lights shining all over the friggin place, coming down out of the woods 3 and 4 at a time, I knew if it was that crowded with an hour and a half to go before sunrise that by sunrise it was surely going to be a %$#@ show I left! Went home! I have said it a million times I don't care if people are catching 40 pounders that fishing in a crowd like that was not for me!! Even now having heard and read what went on all last week I stand behind what I have said a million times! I am glad I left because none of me would have wanted to be a part of that cluster !%$#! Think I will stick with my little plastic boat!

[beamie]

Originally Posted by bobber

I worry about all the fish being taken out of the population when its a slaughter like that......

I wouldn't worry about too much.

The thing you have to realize is that you saw it all at one time and place. That one week or so the big biomass of fish was there eating bait. Now if the canal was its usual good place to fish with usual size and numbers and you had the same in Boston Harbor and the Same at P town and the same at Scorton then that would have amounted to the same thing but spread over 20 places. No one would have batted an eye. But that week most of the fish were in 1 spot and allot of the other places the bite was not on.

Deep breath, it is not the end of the world.

[boot man]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

I know there was a lot of craziness but all in all I saw happy people catching loads of fish and being nice to one another. The negative situations were not the norm.
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Same here. And universal disgust at the very few floaters that made their .way by.
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[bobber]

Originally Posted by beamie

I wouldn't worry about too much.

The thing you have to realize is that you saw it all at one time and place. That one week or so the big biomass of fish was there eating bait. Now if the canal was its usual good place to fish with usual size and numbers and you had the same in Boston Harbor and the Same at P town and the same at Scorton then that would have amounted to the same thing but spread over 20 places. No one would have batted an eye. But that week most of the fish were in 1 spot and allot of the other places the bite was not on.

Deep breath, it is not the end of the world.

maybe you're right- I think I get more pissed by the wantoness of the carnage from the pics I saw.... people who have no idea what it (normally) takes to catch some decent fish were yukkin' it up with the googan buds over the stack of 30 and 40 pounders they had caught.

I'm not a "sky-is-falling" kinda guy. I just think the fishery deserves better.... if that makes any sense

[ProfessorM]

I know a lot of fish were taken. You have to remember these fish that were harvested are harvested every year by the boat guys in CCBay. This year these fish came into the canal and stayed. The boat guys struggled out in the bay this year usually they harvest them so they would have been taken. Just this year you got to see what they do out in the boats, 15 fish per boat, usually but done by shore people and visible to everyone. I saw a bunch of die hard boat guys fishing the canal this past few weeks. I also said to a few of them aren't you glad you voted to screw the shore guys out of fish by having it dropped to 2 fish from shore. Now you can only take 2, like that happened, but if they were playing by rules they screwed themselves out if fish.
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[paradoxjim]

Originally Posted by bloocrab

You'd have to know what it was like before the moratorium........then of course, DURING the moratorium.....to understand the impact of things. It's those who've lived through it and those who've heard or read about it that are most concerned right now.

Well stated, Bloo.

[Guppy]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

Yup guy puts a 40 plus up near bike in dark goes back fishing. Comes back up on path to find a 20 something.
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Shrinkage?

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by beamie

I wouldn't worry about too much.

The thing you have to realize is that you saw it all at one time and place. That one week or so the big biomass of fish was there eating bait. Now if the canal was its usual good place to fish with usual size and numbers and you had the same in Boston Harbor and the Same at P town and the same at Scorton then that would have amounted to the same thing but spread over 20 places. No one would have batted an eye. But that week most of the fish were in 1 spot and allot of the other places the bite was not on.

Deep breath, it is not the end of the world.

Ever consider why the bite was in one spot and none of those other spots that used to be on fire in late August weren't happening? There should be many big biomasses of fish, no?

[5/0]

There hasn't been a decent fish in the canal in years,I dunno why it's been so packed.
Last Saturday I thought it was old school opening day....
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[Surf Caster]

Originally Posted by numbskull

It is pretty simple.
If you live for the catch, a canal blitz is as good as it gets.
If you live for the hunt, a canal blitz is as bad as it gets.
No reason you can't enjoy both, although not everyone does.

Very well said.

[piemma]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Ever consider why the bite was in one spot and none of those other spots that used to be on fire in late August weren't happening? There should be many big biomasses of fish, no?

Well said Mike. Someone else posted that those of us who lived through the collapse and moratorium understand. Those that didn't...don't.
Hell I went 3 years withou catching a decent fish in the late 80s. I got thrown out of a tackle store in Narr for reporting that I caught 6 schoolies at Deep Hole one morning because there just weren't any.

When we finally got open at 1, @ 36", there were maybe 2 dozen 36"+ fish caught in a whole season. We fished for hours on end in the surf for 1 couple of 20" fish and a Blue or 2.

It wasn't pretty but the dedicated RI Surfrats stayed at it day in and day out. DZ, Billy Nolan, Steve Mc Kenna, Gill Guilletone, Russ Olivo, Gene Auette all searched for a 20# fish. Finally in 94 or 95 it turned but we all knew we had caused the damage in the early years (70s + 80s) by killing all the big breeders.

I am not a "the sky is falling" guy. I think we are seeing signs that there is a problem developing. I'm not blaming the Comms, the recs, the poachers, the bandits or any individual. I am looking hard at the way the bureaucrats are handling the Striped Bass ecosystem. If you don't think taking the $ sign off the Bass's heads would help, I think you are mistaken.

[ProfessorM]

I would never say taking the money out of bass fishing would not be beneficial. Absolutely. Would love to see it happen and I have held a permit for a long time. I welcome it. Please make it happen. A slot limit too would be a great move. Gamefish is even better. Pipe dream, probably.
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[piemma]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

I would never say taking the money out of bass fishing would not be beneficial. Absolutely. Would love to see it happen and I have held a permit for a long time. I welcome it. Please make it happen. A slot limit too would be a great move. Gamefish is even better. Pipe dream, probably.
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Thanks Paul. Again, I am not blaming the comms or anyone else except for the mgmt. people.
I think there are new factors to consider such as social media, cell phones, the internet and the blatant fact that there are far more guys and gals fishing for SB than there were in the past. It seems to me like the Bass don't stand a chance, long term, unless a new way of managing the stocks is undertaken.

[ProfessorM]

Don't forget side scan sonar. That is a huge huge factor in the boat game. I know what you are saying Paul and I agree with everything your saying. I put most of the blame on the management of the bass. 2 sides with different views and not getting any closer. Can't blame guys going fishing it is the reason for going, to catch fish. Unfortunately bad fishing is the only thing that is going to get people to start to realize the consequences. Hauling in 30 lbers on every cast for 8 straight days is really clouding the issue. The fact the season is still open this late is something they should be thinking about.
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[Nebe]

If the price was taken off the striped bass head, you would see a catastrophic collapse of the striped bass fishing industry. Charter boats, guides, and even some marinas would fold. The black market is so black, that even some of the most respected people in the industry are poachers. I know because I have seen it first hand and it disgusted me to the point of hanging up the rods.

You will never see the price taken off the head of the striped bass because the corruption is so high up that the people who could make it happen would never hear the end of it from their friends with dirty hands and bulging wallets.

I have no hope for gamefish status or a slot.
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[Mike P]

Originally Posted by piemma

Well said Mike. Someone else posted that those of us who lived through the collapse and moratorium understand. Those that didn't...don't.
Hell I went 3 years withou catching a decent fish in the late 80s. I got thrown out of a tackle store in Narr for reporting that I caught 6 schoolies at Deep Hole one morning because there just weren't any.

When we finally got open at 1, @ 36", there were maybe 2 dozen 36"+ fish caught in a whole season. We fished for hours on end in the surf for 1 couple of 20" fish and a Blue or 2.

It wasn't pretty but the dedicated RI Surfrats stayed at it day in and day out. DZ, Billy Nolan, Steve Mc Kenna, Gill Guilletone, Russ Olivo, Gene Auette all searched for a 20# fish. Finally in 94 or 95 it turned but we all knew we had caused the damage in the early years (70s + 80s) by killing all the big breeders.

I am not a "the sky is falling" guy. I think we are seeing signs that there is a problem developing. I'm not blaming the Comms, the recs, the poachers, the bandits or any individual. I am looking hard at the way the bureaucrats are handling the Striped Bass ecosystem. If you don't think taking the $ sign off the Bass's heads would help, I think you are mistaken.

We also understand that there was about a tenth of the amount of pressure on those fish as there is now. Even with a 16" limit and unlimited sale. The commercial bass game was a relatively small contingent of sharpies. There probably weren't as many guys spread over 26 miles of back beach as there were packed into 14 miles of Canal last week. Sure netters did their damage, but they still do in points south. That same body of fish that was in the Canal chasing mackerel in the spring gets hammered every winter offshore of Virginia, and along the entire Jersey coast on their way north in the spring---by numbers of fishermen which way exceed the number in the Canal. They NJ old-timers have a saying---live bunker makes everyone a sharpie. As do those daytime bites in the Canal when the bass are so lit up they'll hit an old shoe.

[bart]

I don't know why people seem to think the fish won't be back, that the crowds won't show again....the big bait and cold water isn't going anywhere and neither are the fish.

This has been happening for the last 6-8 years, the late summer bite....it's just getting better/worse each year. Social media is the most irresponsible means of decimating these big fish IMO. Everyone feels the need to post a pic validating their ability to catch fish in a barrel, expediting the "word of mouth" process.

The fact is the big fish will be back in the ditch next year so long as the bait is there. So will the crowds, poachers, undesirables, etc. Might as well get used to it...

[tunaless greg]

Oh, right we had plenty of them around, till they aggregated tighter and tighter, till we fished them down to the point that even the boats that fish every day only catch a few fish over 20 pounds. This is what is occurring with the bass. Same scenario almost exactly in the 80's, with the exception of the haul seiners. IF you did not experience it, you would not believe it could have happened so quick. We had a full moon in Montauk in early 80's that we were shipping box cars of bass out of inlet marina. We had guys coming to us while checking fish traps that would take literally anything for live bait. The fish stayed packed, then we had massive hits by the haul seiners. I can remember being on the beach, helping throw 20-30 pound bass into the back of Danny kings truck. I think one crew had 14 trucks that day, and there were 4 crews. Poof, the bass fishing went to 0. You can overlay social media, with the commercial landings, with the recreational web reports and get a pretty good picture. Fishing was red hot in the canal, yet Montauk night fishery struggled t the same time. This is one biomass of fish, sets up in p town early, then may set up in chatham. in a good year it moves up to the north shore and pounds the bunker for 2-3 week. Problem is it is getting tighter and tighter, and the fishermen are getting better and better. Hopefully we move to a slot, as common sense would dictate. Hopefully fisheries management see the obvious picture, unless they are a young kid, and they did not see how it happened last time.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by tunaless greg

Oh, right we had plenty of them around, till they aggregated tighter and tighter, till we fished them down to the point that even the boats that fish every day only catch a few fish over 20 pounds. This is what is occurring with the bass. Same scenario almost exactly in the 80's, with the exception of the haul seiners. IF you did not experience it, you would not believe it could have happened so quick. We had a full moon in Montauk in early 80's that we were shipping box cars of bass out of inlet marina. We had guys coming to us while checking fish traps that would take literally anything for live bait. The fish stayed packed, then we had massive hits by the haul seiners. I can remember being on the beach, helping throw 20-30 pound bass into the back of Danny kings truck. I think one crew had 14 trucks that day, and there were 4 crews. Poof, the bass fishing went to 0. You can overlay social media, with the commercial landings, with the recreational web reports and get a pretty good picture. Fishing was red hot in the canal, yet Montauk night fishery struggled t the same time. This is one biomass of fish, sets up in p town early, then may set up in chatham. in a good year it moves up to the north shore and pounds the bunker for 2-3 week. Problem is it is getting tighter and tighter, and the fishermen are getting better and better. Hopefully we move to a slot, as common sense would dictate. Hopefully fisheries management see the obvious picture, unless they are a young kid, and they did not see how it happened last time.

The managers have a mission statement: manage the striped bass fishery for "maximum sustainable yield". In other words, keep it on the edge of collapse, but don't push it over the edge. The problem is that it often takes too long for them to see exactly where the edge is---or in present circumstances, where it was.

[bobber]

the managers on ASMFC are just as greedy as the guys throwing fish in the back of the truck..... they resist any moves to slow the decline of the biomass, even ignoring their own committee's advice.

Nebe said it best- these fish are too valuable to ever be managed for their benefit.