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| Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi: |
06-21-2019, 08:46 AM
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#31
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Ledge Runner Baits
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: I live in a house, but my soul is at sea.
Posts: 8,626
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No you need to be a family member or work for Fox News.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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06-21-2019, 09:55 AM
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Stripers
Having a leader who doesn’t read, doesn’t like or believe what he hears in briefings, governs by tweet and even goes so far as to warn Iran we are about to strike is NOT how this situation gets diffused. IF that drone was downed in international airspace a strong president would have immediately responded militarily, Trump is a paper Twitter tiger, growls loudly, but has no claws or bite. He brought this on himself and he is clueless on how to deal with it. Middle East problems demand understanding, diplomacy and military strategy which escapes Trump across the board.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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we’ve had every conceiveable kind
if president over my lifetime, none has done
anything to improve things there. so i can point to what all of them have done since jimmy carter, and what kind of president they were? and conclude that every single one of them failed miserable at getting Iran in line. we’ve tried everything except invading, and nothing has worked ( not supporting invasion, just saying that intellectual
articulate presidents also failed regarding iran).
Let’s not pretend Trump caused this, or that his personality is making it much worse than it was. they’re a rogue state that sponsors terrorists and helps them kill innocent people. none of our presidents has changed that much.
obama tried to pay them off, howd that work out?
the problem isn’t trump. it’s iran. our friendship with israel, who Iran hates, makes it very tricky.
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06-21-2019, 09:57 AM
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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we should draft condaleeza rice into service, and lock her in a room with the mullahs until they work it out.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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06-21-2019, 10:22 AM
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Stripers
IF that drone was downed in international airspace a strong president would have immediately responded militarily, Trump is a paper Twitter tiger, growls loudly, but has no claws or bite.
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I'm sure there's gamesmanship on both sides. Dialing in a retaliatory strike is easier said than done. As much as you can point to Iran's bad behavior the situation as it stands today was engineered to coerce concessions and Iran will likely be seen as being bullied regardless of what we do. That to a large degree is a product of the Trump admin's recent policy and driven by the Iran hawks he's given the keys to. I can't believe if Mattis was still Sec Def we'd be approaching the situation in the same manner. |
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06-21-2019, 10:27 AM
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
I'm sure there's gamesmanship on both sides. Dialing in a retaliatory strike is easier said than done. As much as you can point to Iran's bad behavior the situation as it stands today was engineered to coerce concessions and Iran will likely be seen as being bullied regardless of what we do. That to a large degree is a product of the Trump admin's recent policy and driven by the Iran hawks he's given the keys to. I can't believe if Mattis was still Sec Def we'd be approaching the situation in the same manner.
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i find
myself missing Mattis and Condaleeza Rice.
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06-21-2019, 01:19 PM
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR
So Wayne, what is your recommendation for dealing with Iran?
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Should have let the agreement play out.. we were dealing with them prior to Trump but Trump was more concerned with. Undoing anything Obama. Just to say he did ... and that's the real issue
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06-21-2019, 01:26 PM
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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general trump is showing great restraint...if he'd retaliated the iranians would show pictures of dead women and children and then we'd have to listen to the democraps and media go on and on about how trump kills women and children...
Posted from my OBAMAPhone/Mobile device
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06-21-2019, 03:04 PM
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
general trump is showing great restraint...if he'd retaliated the iranians would show pictures of dead women and children and then we'd have to listen to the democraps and media go on and on about how trump kills women and children...
Posted from my OBAMAPhone/Mobile device
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I agree with him 100% that the response would not have been proportional.. 1st presidential thing ever to come from his lips
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06-21-2019, 03:14 PM
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
I agree with him 100% that the response would not have been proportional.. 1st presidential thing ever to come from his lips
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Probably all staged  |
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06-21-2019, 03:35 PM
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#40
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Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 35,273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Stripers
Having a leader who doesn’t read, doesn’t like or believe what he hears in briefings, governs by tweet and even goes so far as to warn Iran we are about to strike is NOT how this situation gets diffused. IF that drone was downed in international airspace a strong president would have immediately responded militarily, Trump is a paper Twitter tiger, growls loudly, but has no claws or bite. He brought this on himself and he is clueless on how to deal with it. Middle East problems demand understanding, diplomacy and military strategy which escapes Trump across the board.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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If it was a manned aircraft, yes. It was unmanned (one reason we use them) and the engagement level is lower than if it were manned.
So what is it? Is Trump dangerous because he is a war monger? Or is he more dangerous because he was not a war monger? |
~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~
Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers
Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.
Apocalypse is Coming:
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06-21-2019, 04:19 PM
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR
If it was a manned aircraft, yes. It was unmanned (one reason we use them) and the engagement level is lower than if it were manned.
So what is it? Is Trump dangerous because he is a war monger? Or is he more dangerous because he was not a war monger?
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bingo. if we
bombed those sites and killed some folks, the trump haters would
say he's bloodthirsty and should have tried diplomacy. because he showed restraint, the same
exact people
will say he’s too soft. it doesn’t matter what he does. the problem
is his existence, not what he does.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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06-21-2019, 06:39 PM
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR
So what is it? Is Trump dangerous because he is a war monger? Or is he more dangerous because he was not a war monger?
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Dangerous because he’s being played by war mongers and can’t see beyond the next news cycle.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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06-21-2019, 07:18 PM
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#43
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Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 35,273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
Dangerous because he’s being played by war mongers and can’t see beyond the next news cycle.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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But it looks like here he didn't get played by War Mongers. I am not a fan. We could have had a better pres.
BTW - the US may have launched new cyber attacks on Iran.
https://news.yahoo.com/pentagon-secr...wer&soc_trk=tw |
~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~
Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers
Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.
Apocalypse is Coming:
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06-21-2019, 08:25 PM
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
Dangerous because he’s being played by war mongers and can’t see beyond the next news cycle.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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he called off the strike. how is that getting played by the war
mongers?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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06-21-2019, 08:36 PM
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
he called off the strike. how is that getting played by the war
mongers?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Do you honestly believe anything they say?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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06-21-2019, 08:57 PM
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
Do you honestly believe anything they say?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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i don’t refuse to
believe everything that goes against my agenda.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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06-22-2019, 05:13 AM
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#47
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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it's funny to see who the bitter clingers really are
Posted from my OBAMAPhone/Mobile device
Last edited by scottw; 06-22-2019 at 07:45 AM..
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06-22-2019, 06:35 AM
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#48
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Ledge Runner Baits
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: I live in a house, but my soul is at sea.
Posts: 8,626
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Who knows what the actual decisions were, but reporting now indicates Trump ordered the attack and possibly due to Bolton’s advice and then senior pentagon officials may have gotten him to cancel. If that’s true and it certainly falls right into his playbook, is that a strong smart president, sits down with all the key people, weighs the pros and cons, then makes the call and sticks with it. This is typical reactionary Trump, hears from someone he likes and goes off quickly in that direction, walking things back is his MO.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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06-22-2019, 07:04 AM
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#49
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Stripers
Who knows what the actual decisions were
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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None of us do but I am sure you will make something up and cry wolf.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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06-22-2019, 07:46 AM
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Stripers
Who knows what the actual decisions were, but reporting now indicates Trump ordered the attack and possibly due to Bolton’s advice and then senior pentagon officials may have gotten him to cancel. If that’s true and it certainly falls right into his playbook, is that a strong smart president, sits down with all the key people, weighs the pros and cons, then makes the call and sticks with it. This is typical reactionary Trump, hears from someone he likes and goes off quickly in that direction, walking things back is his MO.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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it's impressive how you make everything fit your narrative
Posted from my OBAMAPhone/Mobile device |
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06-22-2019, 11:31 AM
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
it's impressive how you make everything fit your narrative
Posted from my OBAMAPhone/Mobile device
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they can really bend
the reality to fit their agenda.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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06-22-2019, 01:51 PM
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
they can really bend
the reality to fit their agenda.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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you should know .....  |
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06-22-2019, 05:36 PM
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#53
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Ledge Runner Baits
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: I live in a house, but my soul is at sea.
Posts: 8,626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
it's impressive how you make everything fit your narrative
Posted from my OBAMAPhone/Mobile device
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Trump has a new slogan, make Iran great again🤪
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06-22-2019, 06:57 PM
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Stripers
Trump has a new slogan, make Iran great again🤪
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Next thing you know he will send them boatloads of money overnight. Cuz you know, they are good folks.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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06-22-2019, 07:21 PM
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#55
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles
Next thing you know he will send them boatloads of money overnight. Cuz you know, they are good folks.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Had nothing to do with them being good folks.
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06-22-2019, 08:57 PM
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#56
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
Had nothing to do with them being good folks.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Probably had nudes of Michelle
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"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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06-22-2019, 11:25 PM
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
Had nothing to do with them being good folks.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Thank you for the flash bulletin Jeff.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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06-23-2019, 07:25 PM
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#58
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles
Thank you for the flash bulletin Jeff.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Of, that one hurt. Must have been a TDF-SD collaboration.
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06-24-2019, 07:40 AM
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#59
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
Of, that one hurt. Must have been a TDF-SD collaboration.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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he’s increasing sanctions, and he
let the Iranians know that it was very close to being worse for them. Trump has done things i can not stand. i think he handled this about as well as it could
have been handled.
he had a few options, and no matter what he did, the
liberals in the media would have attacked him for it, and you would have sucked it up
like a Hoover deluxe.
what would
you have had him do? Nothing? Send them more cash?
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06-24-2019, 08:00 AM
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#60
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,429
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I would rather he built a coalition, than send Pompeo after the fact to the Middle East to try and assemble one, or put one back together depending on your viewpoint.
America First (Alone) is not an example of good leadership.
Here's the countries that were in the Gulf War coalition and regardless of how you feel about the Gulf War, the diplomatic and military leadership was incredibly skilled. I don't see that happening with this President.
The Allied coalition was made up of 39 countries: Afghanistan, Argentina, Australia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belgium, Canada, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Egypt, France, Germany, Greece, Honduras, Hungary, Italy, Kuwait, Morocco, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Niger, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Singapore, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Syria, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom and the United States.
The US Department of Defense has estimated the incremental costs of the Gulf War at $61 billion, with US allies providing about $54 billion of that -- Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states covered $36 billion. Germany and Japan covered $16 billion.
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