Rumors about stripers

[eelman]

What is a keeper? Come on a 28inch fish? Give me a break, those are way to small, they are the future I would much rather see someone take a lrge fish than a dink at 28 inches, Its almost embaressing to keep a 28inch fish. I have never considered that size fish a keeper to me they should be 34 or 36 inches and up before I would even want to mention it. Steve has said there are so many guys that go into the shop with these 28inch dinks , its a shame to see. As john said its so much better to get a fish at 36inches sure its harder but it is much more rewarding. The 28inch size thing was a disgrace, its a schoolie nothing more, let em grow!

The 34 to 44 inch are the "workhorse" stock, however they are much harder to catch than 28 inch school bass so, I dont think it will hurt the future to raise the size.

[The Dad Fisherman]

How about one at 34" and one at 44" that way you get a respectable fish for the table and if you get your Cow you can bring it home too.

[Nebe]

the only bass i usually keep are the ones thatare barely 29 inches up to 30. They feed my family for one night, plus another if i make a chowder and they are safer to eat. I want to see a one fish at X and one greater than Y... leave all the 20's all the 30's and all the 40's.... take your trophy and take your dinner. look at what they did with the redfish down south- thats what i want to see.

[bassmaster]

Originally Posted by Canalman

Sheesh... from the sounds of things some people want the fishery to return to the way it was, back in the old days or think its there now, which I obvioulsy never saw. I think that is an unrealistic goal. Gone are the days of selling fish to support yourself for the summer. I'm surprised that people even want to do it now with the price per pound fighting against the price of fuel. I think a lot of you need to "let it go" and realize that it's just not realsitic to think your doing anyone a service by fishing commercially... least of all yourselves. Am I wrong? I know it's fun and you're making some money while having fun, but it seems to me the cost would outweigh the bounty... perhaps I'm not correct. Like gamblers that believe they're beating the house, are you really "playing on their money" when you finally tally up the bottom line?

Flaptail - You really are googan ... did 36" fish really weigh 25# back in the day??

the cash is good from the boat and the new rules are good.
I get the dirt from a few people and if i had a 20' boat I would be making doe to.

[eelman]

Originally Posted by Eben

the only bass i usually keep are the ones thatare barely 29 inches up to 30. They feed my family for one night, plus another if i make a chowder and they are safer to eat. I want to see a one fish at X and one greater than Y... leave all the 20's all the 30's and all the 40's.... take your trophy and take your dinner. look at what they did with the redfish down south- thats what i want to see.

You know its fine to take a fish now and then to eat at 28 inches however I see to many people stretch a 27-1/2 to a 28 and justify taking it, I would rather them stretch a 35 to a 36. Its the mentality of it that I see, they take the 28s just to say they have a "keeper" not with the thought of a meal.

[striprman]

I'd like to see the recreational fisherman be able to keep 2 fish a day over 24 inches. I'd also like to see no commercial fishing allowed.

1 fish at 30 inches is more realistic.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by striprman

I'd like to see the recreational fisherman be able to keep 2 fish a day over 24 inches. I'd also like to see no commercial fishing allowed.

1 fish at 30 inches is more realistic.

Problem wih 2 at 24 is that they are much more attainable and easy to catch. The typical angler is lucky to get two keepers over 28 a year, make them24 inches and a lot more of those younger class fish will be taken out of the pool. At least a slot between 20-26 has a fair amount of males mixed in as there are a higher percentage of males at 20 inches than 24, whereas females are over 90% of fish over 34 inches... I think cutting out comm fishing is rediculous. I thknk there is too much take commercialy AND recreationaly and that both should be scaled back. Unfortunately, if the biomasses of the various baits keep shrinking, it will all be moot. The problem is not the commercial or recreational fishing as much as it is the forage these fish feed on. Too many people feel that if they debate the size issue of Striped Bass, that their work is done, the size of the fish is just a small part of it. The important parts are not addressed strongly enough...

Slot limit.... and no commercial pogie harvest within 3 miles of the coast, fix the herring problem and we'll have a wonderful stock of fish...

[eelman]

John, why is everyone so fixated on the bunker? while its a main forage, its not the only one.I agree that the comm take of bunker should be scaled way back, I think bass adapt. I have cleaned plenty of bass over the last 25 years from both boat and shore and have found 80% of the time these fish have some type of lobster, crabs etc... in there belly. This year was banner for bunker in narr.bay however all of the fish I saw had lobsters or crabs in there gut, in fact there is no shortage of crabs! there was a recent crab hatch and there were millions of the tiny guys all over the shore.

Dont get me wrong small finfish are a staple in a stripers diet and I want to see it stay around and be protected but bass simply eat anything they can, flounder,scup, etc....I have seen years where the finfish forage was non existant and still the bass fishing was good, they adapt and acually prefer a diet of crabs and lobster. What a loss in bunker does do is prevent fish from being in places we normally see them, if no bunker in the bay then no bass.I caugt a bass once that had tautog in its gut!

I dont want this taken the wrong way but bass eat everything.Sure we do need to protect the forage but the bass does not care weather it dines on lobster or bunker its going to eat the same........

I dont like slot limits, granted you certainly seem to know more about the sceince than I do but that size limit encourages to many small fish taken. My final is 36inches at 1 per day and leave the comm. bass fishing alone

[Notaro]

then what is the size limit for the striper commerical fishermen to keep? right now, they are allowed to keep 34 inches or above. so if the recreational striper limit creel is 36 inches and comemrical size limit has to be 34 or what? just asking.

[CANAL RAT]

if you change it to 36inches in coming years we will have tons of these 36inch fish which means more of a chance or some BIG stripers the bass will have a chance to breed and we will have more stripers. scale back the pogy quota in a big way and we will have a healthy fisherie.having all the states have the same regs will have a positive effect

[fishdog13]

Originally Posted by striprman

I'd like to see the recreational fisherman be able to keep 2 fish a day over 24 inches. I'd also like to see no commercial fishing allowed.

1 fish at 30 inches is more realistic.

OoOOoo another HERO!

[ragfly]

I would like to see it change to what we have up here in Maine>

one fish 20" - 26" or 40" or greater.

[piemma]

I liked it when the limit was 34" one per day. No one was killing 28" babies. I don't keep anything under 34" anyway and never take more than one. Eben, pointed out that one fish feeds a family and then some.
I was in the Thundermist Striper Club years ago and you couldn't register a fish unless it was 34" or more. Someone pointed out that at 28 a lot of guys stretch 27 1/2. I agree.

MAKE IT 34", one a day

[piemma]

Originally Posted by Notaro

then what is the size limit for the striper commerical fishermen to keep? right now, they are allowed to keep 34 inches or above. so if the recreational striper limit creel is 36 inches and comemrical size limit has to be 34 or what? just asking.

Joe:
I can't remember. I think when the 36" rule was in effect the commercial guys had to go with 36" also. Anyone remember? I would say this was 1991 or 1992.

[eelman]

Originally Posted by piemma

I liked it when the limit was 34" one per day. No one was killing 28" babies. I don't keep anything under 34" anyway and never take more than one. Eben, pointed out that one fish feeds a family and then some.
I was in the Thundermist Striper Club years ago and you couldn't register a fish unless it was 34" or more. Someone pointed out that at 28 a lot of guys stretch 27 1/2. I agree.

MAKE IT 34", one a day

AMEN

[basswipe]

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

John, why is everyone so fixated on the bunker? while its a main forage, its not the only one.I agree that the comm take of bunker should be scaled way back, I think bass adapt. I have cleaned plenty of bass over the last 25 years from both boat and shore and have found 80% of the time these fish have some type of lobster, crabs etc... in there belly. This year was banner for bunker in narr.bay however all of the fish I saw had lobsters or crabs in there gut, in fact there is no shortage of crabs! there was a recent crab hatch and there were millions of the tiny guys all over the shore.

Bunker ARE the stripers' #1 forage.Its what maintains them.They be eating lobster and crabs because that's what's available especially now that the Asian crab has become so prolific.

This year was "banner" for bunker ?I guess a few schools could be considred "banner" when compared to no schools.There hasn't been a banner year for bunker since the early to mid 80s.The pogie boats literally SUCKED the bay and surrounding waters dry of pogies in the 80s.

What makes BIG bass truly BIG is a steady diet of pogie.

[eelman]

Basswipe, sorry but your incorrect, lobster and crabs are there main diet, read nick karrass book, the sceinetific jargon is all there, during comm.season go watch them gut bass you will find crustasions all day long.

I dont know, there are plenty of bass around and more 50s landed at the island than I can remember, I am catching on a consistant basis more fish than I ever have and there not on bunker, go see a bass that has sucked down a 2lb lobster and see how fat that will make the fish! I have said before I have fished when the bunker were nill and still caught plenty, they forage around rocks "rockfish" no bunker there...........

So as far as a banner year? I am having one!!

[Nebe]

Pogies are more important for the bass in the winter IMO

* look at the macrobacrteriowhatchamacallit disease that the bass get down there. they are lacking food.

[Notaro]

pogies mean fat bass.

[eelman]

Originally Posted by Eben

Pogies are more important for the bass in the winter IMO

* look at the macrobacrteriowhatchamacallit disease that the bass get down there. they are lacking food.

I agree its an important forage fish for sure, but once the bass get up this way, they eat whatever is availible and along the rocky coast of rhode island its crustations......

[Bass Babe]

Perhaps a scientific paper will stop the bickering...

the following is a synopsis of the research they did, and the full paper can be found at this website: http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dmf/publi...tal2003add.pdf

might I add that Gary Nelson rocks my socks off -- he's a nifty guy

Striped Bass Diet and Bioenergetics

Food Habits of Striped Bass (Morone saxatilis) in Coastal Waters of Massachusetts. Nelson, G.A., B.C. Chase and J. Stockwell. Journal of Northwest Atlantic Fisheries Science, Vol 32, 2003.

For the past 17 years, our biologists have studied striped bass growth of striped bass caught along Massachusetts and have noted an apparent decline in average weight at age. Like wise, striper fishermen have repeatedly reported the appearance of 'thin' fish in their catches in recent years. As a result, the Sport Fish Program conducted a study during 1997-2000 to address the issues of forage needs of the recovered striped bass population and the potential impacts of striped bass consumption on economically-important prey species. This MarineFisheries research project was designed to provide diet information of striped bass and to build a computer-based bioenergetic model that allows us to estimate consumption rates of striped bass for any particular food item, such as river herring, menhaden, and even the commercially- important lobster. We collected diet information from over 3,000 striped bass collected from the North Shore, Cape Cod Bay, and Nantucket Sound regions of Massachusetts
Striped Bass gut contents displaying different sizes of prey

We found that, in general, striped bass consumed mostly fish (menhaden, herring, silversides, and sand lance) and invertebrates (crabs, sand shrimp, and sea fleas); however, the amounts eaten varied depending on the month of summer, fish length, and where the striped bass were captured. Large bass (>24 inches) generally ate more invertebrates (mainly lobsters and crabs) than small bass (<24 inches), but small bass ate more fish (mainly menhaden during August-September) than large bass. Striped bass captured from rocky shorelines or offshore waters generally ate more invertebrates than bass captured from estuaries or harbors.

We also found that the striped bass ate different sizes of prey. Fish prey ranged in size from 0.9" to 19" total length, and crab prey ranged in size from 0.1" to 4" carapace width. Individuals of menhaden and sand lance were generally <5" and the three dominant crabs (rock, green, and lady crabs) were generally <3" . American lobsters eaten by striped bass were <2" carapace length.

Using the bioenergetic model, we estimated that an "average" striped bass of six years (27 inches in length) must eat about 16 pounds of prey to gain 1 pound in weight during June-September in Massachusetts waters. Most energy contributing to the growth of this age class comes from different fish prey during June-July, but mainly from menhaden during August-September. These results confirmed the importance of fishes like menhaden to the survival and health of the striped bass population.

The next phase of the project will be to estimate the consumptive impact of striped bass on their prey. This task will require us to estimate the numbers of striped bass residing in Massachusetts waters and is expected to be completed by summer of 2002.

[eelman]

." Large bass (>24 inches) generally ate more invertebrates (mainly lobsters and crabs) than small bass (<24 inches), but small bass ate more fish (mainly menhaden during August-September) than large bass. Striped bass captured from rocky shorelines or offshore waters generally ate more invertebrates than bass captured from estuaries or harbors."

I love it when I am right

[Saltheart]

I've always thought a slot limit was the best approach. Allow fish for the table , allow some trophys but protect the breaders.

I also think we need a coast wise limit , whatever it is. In Maryland , they take about 9 million pounds of tiny fish. In numbers of individual fish , it makes the RI and MA alotment miniscule.

[Nebe]

[QUOTE=#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
I love it when I am right [/QUOTE]

your right, but so am I. the bass are lacking all that protein that they used to get pre and post spawn. How many baseball bat shaped bass have you caught this year? i have caught a few and i always think that they were put on the atkins diet over the winter. You may be right that they eat lobsters when they are up here, but what about when they are down there???

pogies matter.

[fishaholic18]

I caught a fatboy full of Tatoug not long ago.

[Iwannakeeper]

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

You know its fine to take a fish now and then to eat at 28 inches however I see to many people stretch a 27-1/2 to a 28 and justify taking it, I would rather them stretch a 35 to a 36. Its the mentality of it that I see, they take the 28s just to say they have a "keeper" not with the thought of a meal.

The problem is that people are taking fish home to show off and not eat or sell.

As someone pointed out (eben I think) the 28in fish is enough for a meal or two and is safer (from a toxin level). I perfer to keep a small fish once in awhile for a meal or two. I do not take fish to stock freezer.

I hope the length limits do not drop. I do not know enough to decide whether they should go up.

I do like the idea of a small (28-36") and a large (over 44") so that you can have table fare and still keep a trophy if you are lucky enough.

But the bait fish demise makes the most logical sense to me. If there is not enough bait to supply the predators, there are no predators. and the predators that are left are smaller, undersized, and not as healthy.

-IWK

[RIJIMMY]

I'm prbabaly not adding any value to this thread, but,,,arent there tons of juvenille blues (snappers I called them as a kid) for the bass to feed on? Wouldnt they be an available source of forage for big bass?

[piemma]

Jimmy:
I think they bite the bass when the bass bite them and then you have a lousy bite or no bite or.....never mind.

[Pete F.]

I think this is a multi-faceted problem.
1. Male bass comprise 50% of the population of fish under somewhere in the low 30s. There are very few large male bass. A 50/50 ratio of males to females is not neccesary for good reproductive success. This is the rationale behind a 20 to 26 inch slot limit.
2. The pressure on the Striped Bass fishery is historically very high at this time. They are relatively easy to catch, you dont need a boat or a lot of special equipment. (Don't tell my wife that I said that) Fish still die from catch and release and there are estimates that will scare you on percentages.
3. Shoreline developement and the resultant pollution has increased tremendously over the past 30 years. Thsi includes stormwater discharges into nearshore areas. When I was a kid it was not a requirement in Suburbia that you fertilize your lawn and make sure that it is a bluegrass monoculture. Now it is not unusual for people to have service contracts for fertilization, etc. This makes a percentage of the estuarial areas unsuitable for use as a nursery by any fish, bait or game.
4. We have become too effecient at finding schools of baitfish and being able to collect them.
I am sure there are other factors involved. I think a Maine style slot limit is the way to go.

[basswipe]

Originally Posted by Eben

your right, but so am I. the bass are lacking all that protein that they used to get pre and post spawn. How many baseball bat shaped bass have you caught this year? i have caught a few and i always think that they were put on the atkins diet over the winter. You may be right that they eat lobsters when they are up here, but what about when they are down there???

pogies matter.

Absolutely pogies matter.Its the #1 forage when there down in the Chesapeake.

I shoulda stated that in my 1st post.