stripers in fed waters

[JFigliuolo]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Nobody ever said that... You obviously have absolutley no idea what some people in law enforcement go through regarding retribution...

That we can agree on.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Nobody ever said that... You obviously have absolutley no idea what some people in law enforcement go through regarding retribution...

It's becoming very apparent that you are the only person that has any idea about anything.

[CowHunter]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

It's becoming very apparent that you are the only person that has any idea about anything.

Some people like to bring in my personal life into topics. It's becoming very apparant that you have smart remarks to everything.


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Blitzseeker]

I say call'em all in, but you best believe you better be ready for the outcome unless you are being very careful about it.

A few of the guys I fish regularly with on the Cape grew up in the Carolinas and are OBX surf regulars. I've been hearing the stories for years of how fishing disputes get resolved down there, and it isn't with a pleasant conversation where people agree to disagree. If those folks thing you've done then wrong, then they are going to find a way to wreck your boat/truck/gear, and are not above taking a potshot at you to make their point.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Blitzseeker

I say call'em all in, but you best believe you better be ready for the outcome unless you are being very careful about it.

A few of the guys I fish regularly with on the Cape grew up in the Carolinas and are OBX surf regulars. I've been hearing the stories for years of how fishing disputes get resolved down there, and it isn't with a pleasant conversation where people agree to disagree. If those folks thing you've done then wrong, then they are going to find a way to wreck your boat/truck/gear, and are not above taking a potshot at you to make their point.

The south has always been a little behind. Yee-hawww.

[PRBuzz]

From another board, fishing report NC:

Striped Bass fishing is hot on the Outer Banks of NC. We caught over 50 fish on Monday from 30-45lbs.

(I am not part of "we")

[WoodyCT]

All these females being lost from the spawning stock biomass will be the nail in the coffin for the bass.

There is absolutely no way any of those poached fish are figured into ASMFC mortality rate statistics.

Hence, ASMFC's stock assessments and forecasts are completely useless for any purpose other than wasting paper.

If you don't make your voice heard in protest of this horrific waste, or ASMFC's innacurate assessments and forcasts, then you have no right to complain when the stocks collapse,

which is exactly what will happen if the coastwide status quo continues.

[WoodyCT]

Drafted this and will be sending it to the NC and VA marine fisheries departments, not to mention anyone else I can think of.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

An Open Letter to the North Carolina Department of Marine Fisheries, 2/4/10

The regal striped bass has already once been saved from the brink of total stock collapse, but sadly it appears that North Carolina has already forgotten that page of U.S. fisheries history.

The rampant poaching of over-wintering striped bass from the EEZ (Exclusive Economic Zone) off the Mid-Atlantic MUST be addressed IMMEDIATELY to stop the wonton destruction of the coast-wide spawning stock biomass.

None of these poached fish are accounted for in mortality statistics, thus the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commissions assessment of the health and future viability of the striped bass spawning stock biomass is a complete farce.

North Carolina does not own these fish, but it is responsible for its citizens who fish for them. ENFORCE THE LAW!


Rest assured that I will not be spending my vacation dollars in North Carolina.

Jonathan Woodman

PS Below are a sampling of posts recently made on Striped-Bass.com. NONE PAINT A PRETTY PICTURE OF YOUR STATE OR ITS NEIGHBORS!


Nowhere on the Striper coast is there such total disregard of the EEZ as in Virginia / North Carolina. I don’t think people have any idea the damage being done by the poaching down south. The Charter Boats down there break the law every single day and brag about it. It is a shame. The entire biomass is concentrated down there in different schools, guys are running well beyond three miles, most 2 trips a day. If you guys just see the fish that are caught illegally and come in every day...
Report from VA Beach last sat:


[ edited by John R - one can easily believe that list is people actually poaching where we have no proof if it is or not - I'll add some comments later in this thread]

These were poached in one day... This is just from a handful of boats at the VA fishing center. A small percentage that even report their catch...
----------------------
I did hear that the Coast Guard nabbed 20 plus boats in one day this past week... Boys were at it the very next day. Heard they were max fines too.... Again- that’s second hand info, wish they would post it somewhere online. Charter Captains brag about it down there. Fished a tourney 2 weeks ago and the fish moved over the line the second day, only 8 fish were caught. Should of saw the Charter Guys loads that came in that were poached....

Rumor has it that a group of charter captains have a pool (rumor has it that each guy puts in a $100), and when the CG goes after one of them in the EEZ, the others high tail it out of there while the CG does there thing to the nabbed boat....then the boat that got busted takes the pool money to pay the fine. I believe they replenish the pool on a weekly basis......like I said, that's what the local rumor grapevine reported by guys who have fished in tournaments down there....

We were celebrating our catches while eating lunch, heading back to the dock with our limit before 12:00. Suddenly we found ourselves in a situation in which the mate and captain were telling us that we were way out past the 3 mile limit. They were thinking about dumping the catch because their spotters notified them that the marine police were on the way out. Moments later a marine police unit was on top of our boat. It was about to prepare to board us when one of the boats next to us began tossing their fish overboard. The cops left our boat and went directly to that boat and boarded it. Our captain steamed away and when we where about two miles away, we watched in disbelief as the mate gutted out our fish and tossed them over board.

At least 5 other boats from the Virginia Beach fishing center did the same thing. The ones that brought in fish were out there fishing where we were but they got in before the marine police arrived. We were sickened by the entire experience. The Virginia Beach Fishing Center is a fraud. A bunch of cheats. The captain told us it is just what they do, no big deal to them. Up to the point of the senseless waste of fish, we were having a great time.

People have to understand that the charter boats down there will sail every day even if they know the fish are well past 3 miles. Its not like the rest of the Northeast where you can still catch fish inshore of 3 miles at any given time, maybe not the big bodies of fish. Water temp and bait dictate where those fish go, they have stayed offshore for the majority of the winter. Why do you think they are trying to get the EEZ open to 12 miles down there???

There is no control over this down there... What DO YOU SUGGEST BE DONE???? Maybe the fishing brings too much business to the Virginia Beach Economy Down there in the winter time..... There are debates on this topic on other boards. The best thing to do is equip boats with GPS Systems, at who’s cost, and why exclude anyone up and down the coast rec, charter, or commercial? I know it has been mentioned up on the Cape about 2 years ago. Maybe Severe Zero Tolerance Fines.... People are not stupid, Think its pretty common knowledge that the fish have not been inside 3 miles down there in two weeks... Lots and Lots of Poached Fish, Guess we will see less up north this year!

[JohnR]

I have not been following this thread for a while but now I'll need to keep in the loop.

I edited out the names / towns in that list as this is not reliable enough to be presented as fact here. I'm not a lawyer or law enforcement so I don't know where the line can get crossed so I'm erring on the side of caution.

Ken, I don't doubt your skills or values in bringing that info up to post. My point is that is hard, maybe even irresponsbile, for us in a non "offical" capacity to bring those names on the site.

If this list was generated by a law enforcement office in an offical capacity, we could run with the alleged poachers. If this was generated by an official media outlet say the local paper or TV station, we could reference that.

Woody: While I am with you and support your comments, I removed the names for the reasons listed above and I ask you to do the same. At this point these are comments / hearsay / He Said She Said and probably don't live up to the level of acceptable evidence to bring forth...

If they are a poaching, I really DO hope they are nailed for it.

We've had times in the past where people's names have been brought up second and third hand and usually need to go an edit them. This is one of those cases.

Thanks

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

$2,500 is a substantial fine for most of these charter boats. I'd venture to say that none of them are sailing everyday, and even if they are charging $1200 a day (which is really waaay up at the high end of the range) they certainly aren't making anywhere near that much.

i have to disagree
If this was the fine because you had a 27 inch instead of 28inch bass then ,yes, its a big fine
but if you are KNOWINGLY fishing in protected waters you should be jailed and your boat should be sunk on the spot

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Zeno

your boat should be sunk on the spot

Or your rock if that's your platform of a choice though marginally more challenging. Oh, no rocks in the EEZ, ner'mind

[Zeno]

I am sorry John, maybe where I grew up and the fact we lived in fear from cops has something to do with. When cops picked you up you could be gone for a year or two and no one would know what prison you were...granted I never want to go back to that...but knowingly poach on daily basis? I got nothing against boat guys, If I could afford one, I'd have one
I know this will seem harsh to some because after all, you cant equate people with "stupid" fish
but think about it
Someone harass your daughter and it’s a fine or jail.....you might think its excessive
does that give that someone a right to rape her too because you are away and no one will do anything about it? Because that’s what they are doing, raping the resource, right under our noses AND bragging about it
So yeah, sink their boats..... human greed has no limits. Sad thing is its all done by recreational community. We are our own worst enemies

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Zeno

I am sorry John, maybe where I grew up and the fact we lived in fear from cops has something to do with. When cops picked you up you could be gone for a year or two and no one would know what prison you were...granted I never want to go back to that...but knowingly poach on daily basis? I got nothing against boat guys, If I could afford one, I'd have one
I know this will seem harsh to some because after all, you cant equate people with "stupid" fish
but think about it
Someone harass your daughter and it’s a fine or jail.....you might think its excessive
does that give that someone a right to rape her too because you are away and no one will do anything about it? Because that’s what they are doing, raping the resource, right under our noses AND bragging about it
So yeah, sink their boats..... human greed has no limits. Sad thing is its all done by recreational community. We are our own worst enemies

Don't be sorry. I didn't live where you did but I did do a few trips in East Germany in the mid 80s so while I haven't lived repression, I've seen it.

I'm all for harsh penalties, enforced, comm or rec. Throw the book, take the boat (or truck). I'm OK with it.

[WoodyCT]

Check it out.

Virginia Beach Fishing Center

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by WoodyCT

Check it out.

Virginia Beach Fishing Center

What looks like almost 200 bass killed on Feb. 1 by the pictures. Look at the bellies on those fish.

[UserRemoved1]

I took the time to email to the addresses that 179 provided (thanks) DID YOU?

It has come to my and many others attention that there is a large amount of poaching going on off the coast of NC and VA in Federal waters/Exclusive Economic Zone. There seems to be no enforcement of the fishing regulations while these people are removing hundreds if not thousands of pre-spawning female striped bass (rockfish) from the biomass. It has been noted by a number of individuals that these poachers are actually running a weekly pool if caught the pool goes to whomever is stopped and fined. This is disgusting and would like to voice my displeasure at these actions.

It is my and many others views that this fishery is in trouble for a number of reasons, including the daily take limits that are passed by some states in excess. This fishery collapsed some years ago and it's going to happen again if something isn't done about it.

Some things for you to look at:

Virginia Beach Fishing Center I would invite you to scroll through their daily catches..knowing that many people have said in recent weeks that there have been no fish located inshore..that the main biomass of fish is located offshore and has been proven by charts and radar plots.

http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripert...ed-waters.html

The slaughter of big stripers not only continues but its kicking in high gear !!! :: Surfcaster's Journal Blog

Can someone step up to the plate here and do something? This is going to have a major effect on the future of this fishery.. and it's a shame to sit idly by and let it happen. Your state as well as others has a very large stake in the future of these fish. Tourism, etc will all be affected. I plan to have a discussion with the American Sportfishing Association and the marine fisheries council people on this subject also, but urge you to stop this wanton recklessness.

Sincerely,

Scott R Bullock
Owner
Salty's Wooden Lures
36 Deanna Dr
Uxbridge Ma 01569



Also cut n pasted off the VA fishing site....

"*STRIPER REGULATIONS POLL*

Currently there is a possible proposition to allow an extension along the Virginia territorial water limit from 3 miles out (from the coast line) to 12 miles out (from the coast line) during Striper season. This would allow catches of Striped Bass to be legal within 12 miles of the coast line.

This has not been passed yet, however this information will be shown when the meeting is held to aide in their decision of extending or not extending the territorial limit.

The current Atlantic Ocean limit in Virginia is 2 Striper per person, each fish must be 28″ or over, and all fish must be caught within the 3 mile limit from the Virginia coast line. Please choose which option you agree with.

*NOTE*
This poll has nothing to do with increasing the size or the bag limit of Striper. This is only for extending the VA Territorial water limit from 3 miles to 12 miles.

PLEASE CHOOSE ONE:

Make the changes to the territorial limit. Change the regulations. 2 fish per person,
28″ +, and up to 12 miles off the beach.

Keep the regulations as they are.
No change is required. 2 fish per person,
28″ +, and within 3 miles off the beach."



Va Marine Resources contact: John.Bull@mrc.virginia.gov

VMRC Contact Information

[Doublerunner]

I don't think a few letters is going to do much more than make us feel better. I'd think that a thousand person or more demonstration at the NC and/or VA state house would bring a lot of media attention...

[JohnnyD]

There is one way to get people to act *and* get people outraged - try to get news coverage of what's going on down there. Fox loves stories where the government isn't enforcing the law and it's costing taxpayers money.

There's nothing quite like a reporter looking for their next big break to get their head poking around and doing investigations.

[Mr. Sandman]

I think the only way to get anyone motivated is a complete coast-wide shutdown. Letters, meetings, protests will not and have not worked that great and are short lived at the best. Shut it down across the board, then and only then will you get real change...and in the meantime while we are deciding what to do the fish will be protected. Shut it down across the board. No take for anyone anywhere anytime. There is no talking to fisheries persons anymore, they clearly have no foresight.

[PRBuzz]

People from the North trying to write to VA/NC isn't going to get very much sympathy. The ears you need are the Representatives/Senators from ME, NH, MA, RI, CT, NY, and even NJ. It is a Federal law being violated. Extending the 3 mi to 12 mi limit will also require Federal approval.

Anyone know if the Jr Senator from MA is aware of this issue and where he might stand? 2.5 years passes quickly and there seems to be a number of votes on this site that lean Brown's way.

[Crafty Angler]

Originally Posted by Doublerunner

I don't think a few letters is going to do much more than make us feel better. I'd think that a thousand person or more demonstration at the NC and/or VA state house would bring a lot of media attention...

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

There is one way to get people to act *and* get people outraged - try to get news coverage of what's going on down there. Fox loves stories where the government isn't enforcing the law and it's costing taxpayers money.

There's nothing quite like a reporter looking for their next big break to get their head poking around and doing investigations.

BINGO!

Media attention and a bright light shining on the abuses could be extremely effective if you can find someone to pick it up and run with it nationally

Investigative reporting is the way to go to bring it to the attention of John Q Public - if memory serves, doesn't Brian Williams, the NBC news anchor, occasionally fish for bass on the Block?

Maybe he's the guy you want to shoot emails to...

[MakoMike]

All this protest at what is going on in NV and Va is all well and good. But you guys should also look in your own backyard. This stuff goes on all summer long right off Block Island. Sure they don't catch the same amount of fish as the guys down south report catching. But it seems a little bit like the pot calling the kettle black.
There are few of us RI charter boats that stay out of the EEZ, but there are loads of boats that fish in the EEZ day after day, if thats where the fish are. Private boats are usually fishing right alongside of them. Both types of boats from RI and from Montauk.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

All this protest at what is going on in NV and Va is all well and good. But you guys should also look in your own backyard. This stuff goes on all summer long right off Block Island. Sure they don't catch the same amount of fish as the guys down south report catching. But it seems a little bit like the pot calling the kettle black.
There are few of us RI charter boats that stay out of the EEZ, but there are loads of boats that fish in the EEZ day after day, if thats where the fish are. Private boats are usually fishing right alongside of them. Both types of boats from RI and from Montauk.

All the more reason to drop the dime on people. Enough phone calls and outrage and someone is bound to act on it. Then, when the crooked bastards get fined to death or get a bad reputation, all the better for the legitimate charter boats.

[UserRemoved1]

Thank you for your recent correspondence regarding striped bass harvest occurring off the coast of North Carolina.

State jurisdiction extends out to three miles offshore in the Atlantic Ocean and federal jurisdiction runs from three to 200 miles offshore. This includes the federal area of jurisdiction, the Exclusive Economic Zone or the EEZ. The striped bass harvest you discuss is occurring in the EEZ, and falls under the jurisdiction of the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS).



Please know we take fishery resource violations seriously and work closely with management partners at the local, state and federal levels. We have forwarded your inquiry to NMFS law enforcement. If you would like to contact NMFS directly regarding this matter, please contact NMFS Enforcement Agent Joe Wilson at joe.wilson@noaa.gov


THERE IS THE GUY TO COMPLAIN TO.

[MakoMike]

If you want to see some "official Reaction" to the problem read the minutes of the ASMFC board that I just posted,

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

If you want to see some "official Reaction" to the problem read the minutes of the ASMFC board that I just posted,

Yeh